[syadasti]

Ah, so thats why N8 likes Apple

Let me introduce you to Apple’s latest release: hundreds of tons of contaminated, unrecycled products. Apple is selling you a fresh, clean image and innovative technology, but behind their messaging is a dirty little secret: their products are made with poison. That’s because under their skin, Apples are full of toxic chemicals like polyvinyl chloride plastic and brominated flame retardants.

When old Apples get tossed, they can end up at the fingertips of children in China, India and other developing world countries. They dismantle them for parts, and are exposed to a dangerous toxic cocktail that threatens their health and the environment.

Tell Apple to go organic!

This cutting edge company risks cutting lives short by exposing thousands of children in the developing world to dangerous chemicals. We've got a better idea for next year's coolest new product: a green Apple.

In case you are wondering, Dell makes over ten times as many PCs and yet they tie for the cleanest electronics maker with Nokia (both rated 7 compared to Apple's 2.7). Apple, think dirty

Summary of the Ratings

Detailed Ratings

 

[kinghami3]

Did you have some kind of messy breakup with Apple? You sound like someone trying to get back at their ex.

 

[syadasti]

Did you have some kind of messy breakup with Apple? You sound like someone trying to get back at their ex.

No I got this campaign when it first came out about a month ago but in this latest mailing from today, Greenpeace (not me) is targeting Apple specifically.

I couldn't resist throwing out the bait :biggrin:

Besides that its a valid and real concern. Apple does a piss poor job when it comes to the environment.

 

[kinghami3]

Apple doesn't do a great job, but I'll withhold judgment until I hear it from someone other than Greenpeace. The big problem is that Apple ships a hell of a lot of batteries.

 

[H8R]

Not to mention the Foxconn debacle.

 

[syadasti]

Not to mention the Foxconn debacle.

Yeah Apple's Foxconn factories break CHINESE labor laws

 

[Transcend]

Apple - giving the Communists what they deserve. Vote Republican, cuz the Dems hate Apple.

Next republican ad campaign right there.


sidebar: Don't you have to TRY REALLY HARD, to manage to break Chinese labour laws? Wow.

 

[syadasti]

Apple - giving the Communists what they deserve. Vote Republican, cuz the Dems hate Apple.

This will make them confused/cry: Al Gore has been on Apple's Board of Directors since March 2003.

 

[Transcend]

This will make them cry though: Al Gore has been on Apple's Board of Directors since March 2003.

Honestly though, companies pay famous people absurd amounts of money to be "on the board". What they do, is actually a mystery.

 

[syadasti]

Honestly though, companies pay famous people absurd amounts of money to be "on the board". What the do, is actually a mystery.

I think Apple pulled for all the product placement shots in, "An Inconvenience Truth". Didn't notice the brand TV he was watching Katrina unfold on, but you could clearly see what kind of notebook he was using in various scenes.

 

[ZoRo]

Still making more user friendly products than those machines operated by a certain OS named Windows

 

[syadasti]

Still making more user friendly products than those machines operated by a certain OS named Windows

That makes polluting the environment and abusing workers OK

And the difference in "user friendly" has more basis in marketing these days.

 

[Kornphlake]

well that's creative.

First, Polyvinyl Chloride is PVC, the same stuff the pipes that carry our drinking water are made out of. I hope that it has not started causing health problems. PVC does break down into some nasty chemicals when it is burned or melted, they are particularly corrosive and cause a lot of wear on processing equipement, hopefully these kids in third world countries aren't smearing molten plastic on their bodies.

As for brominated flame retardants there are no known health hazards, the substance was deemed hazardous because some ice bears in Norway have started exhibiting homosexual behavior after an unexplained raise in brominated trace substances in the reigon. My understanding is that it is a casual correlation at best, not cause and effect and it can not be reproduced in laboratory studies. Maybe that was hexvalent chromium, I can't remember.

A Mac is no more dangerous than the plumbing in your kitchen or the carpet on your floor.

The EU adopted a directive known as RoHS in July of this year, it mandates that any products sold in the EU must contain less than .01% lead, mercury, hexvalent chromium, polybrominatedbiphenylether, or a couple of other substances. Unless Apple quit selling Macs in the EU they've removed hazardous substances from their products.

 

[syadasti]

RoHS banned some brominated retardants, not all of them. I guess they did it for no reason

PVC has known health and safety issues: vinyl chloride monomers, phthalate plasticizers additives, and Greenpeace's fav, dioxins.

You know lots of buildings still have lead pipes in them, common dental filings often use heavy metals, and its not too difficult to still find places with absestos, but that doesn't make things any safer due to commonality or historical usage.

Also those aren't the only reasons Apple scored poorly.

The rankings are obtained using this criteria:

The electronics scorecard ranks companies on:
Chemicals policy and practice (5 criteria)
1. A chemicals policy based on the Precautionary Principle
2. Chemicals Management: supply chain management of chemicals via e.g. banned/restricted substance lists, policy to identify
problematic substances for future elimination/substitution
3. Timeline for phasing out all use of vinyl plastic (PVC)
4. Timeline for phasing out all use of brominated flame retardants (not just those banned by EU’s RoHS Directive)
5. PVC- and BFR-free models of electronic products on the market.
Policy and practice on Producer Responsibility for taking back their discarded products and recycling (4 criteria)
1. Support for individual (financial) producer responsibility – that producers finance the end-of-life management of their products, by
taking back and reusing/recycling their own-brand discarded products.
2. Provides voluntary takeback and recycling in every country where it sells its products, even in the absence of national laws requiring
Producer Responsibility for electronic waste.
3. Provides clear information for individual customers on takeback and recycling services in all countries where there are sales of its
products.
4. Reports on amount of waste electrical and electronic equipment (WEEE) collected and recycled.

Apple's 2.7 explained (see links I proved above for detailed):

APPLE Ranking = 2.7/10
For a company that claims to lead on product design, Apple scores badly on almost all criteria. The company fails to embrace the
precautionary principle, withholds its full list of regulated substances and provides no timelines for eliminating toxic polyvinyl chloride
(PVC) and no commitment to phasing out all uses of brominated flame retardants (BFRs). Apple performs poorly on product take back
and recycling, with the exception of reporting on the amounts of its electronic waste recycled.

Apple is doing piss poor environmentally and they sell/make less than a 10th of the number of PC a top (Dell) or mid (HP) ranked maker does.

Apple signed off on the illegal labor practices in their Foxconn factories too.

There is no excuse, they are doing poorly in labor and environmental criteria in regards to the rest of the industry. The reality is they aren't thinking or doing differently - they are greedy hypocrites.

 

[ZoRo]

That makes polluting the environment and abusing workers OK

And the difference in "user friendly" has more basis in marketing these days.

No, it does not make polluting the environment ok nor does it justify abusing workers. But, hey, you must admit that Macs are zillions of times ahead of Windows operated machines for user friendly capacities and that is the truth, not a marketing scam (wasn't so true back with OS 9, but now, I mean, Vista looks nice, but is always delayed for an obscure reason - meanwhile Leopard is coming out soon...)

 

[syadasti]

That doesn't make them more user friendly (either OSX or Vista). The Mac platform was easier to use before OS X, there weren't as many hardware and software technologies to integrate and support back then and it was more mature.

Apple started to lose their clear user friendly advantage when Win95 came out and eventually was only marginally better when Win2K came out, and they were about even with XP (complaints from either side are due to users being use to one platform or the other). As far as technologically, Windows was a more advanced OS until OSX came out.

Vista was delayed a few times but hasn't been delayed in a while. I don't like Vista or Office 2007 - at least the few beta beta version of Vista and one version of 2007 I tried.

Please use some real facts instead of FUD like "Zillion times better !@#!@@@##@1111"

 

[ZoRo]

Please use some real facts instead of FUD like "Zillion times better !@#!@@@##@1111"

Hey, I do not have any empirical data that would enable me to tell exactly how better it is. Figure of speech you know.

I cannot agree when you say that OS 9 was more mature that X. Before, with 9, there was always bugs, crashes, instable apps, FU extensions panels, etc... NEVER have these problems occur to me with X; in fact, the only problem I have is the lack of space for apps in the Dock.

I cannot agree neither with Win 95 and 2k (even XP in my opinion but, then again, it's ZILLIONS of years ahead of 2k and 95) beign marginally the same in the user friendly department than any of Apple OS's. Win 95 is the worst thing that ever happened to a computer; never have I used an OS that had so many issues and that crashed so often.

 

[Kornphlake]

PVC has known health and safety issues: vinyl chloride monomers, phthalate plasticizers additives, and Greenpeace's fav, dioxins.

Do you have any links or references you can site to back up that claim? I'm not doubting it's true, I've just never heared of PVC being toxic in any way except in a molten or burning state.

 

[Kornphlake]

From my plastics text book:

Vinyl chloride monomer (a gas) is a suspected carcinogen (may cause cancer) an has been shown to be toxic in large doses. Therefore, stringent standars have been established for exposure limits to vinyl chloride monomer, including exposure to the monomer during polymerization and a maximum permissible level of monomer residue in the polymer. These standards have been in place since the early 1970s in the United States. Therefore, polymerized PVC is free of monmeric vinyl chloride and is not considered a potential carcinogen. In fact, several food grades of PVC packaing material have been approved by the FDA. The polymerized product is usually a clear or white flake or powder which is called polyvinyl chloride.

The professor who taught the class wrote the book. He mentioned hazards in processing and problems with processing but says nothing about hazards in the processed plastic.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>

I cannot agree neither with Win 95 and 2k (even XP in my opinion but, then again, it's ZILLIONS of years ahead of 2k and 95)

Huh? I've noticed *no* difference as of yet to speak of between W2K and XP.

 

[syadasti]

I cannot agree when you say that OS 9 was more mature that X. Before, with 9, there was always bugs, crashes, instable apps, FU extensions panels, etc... NEVER have these problems occur to me with X; in fact, the only problem I have is the lack of space for apps in the Dock.

I cannot agree neither with Win 95 and 2k (even XP in my opinion but, then again, it's ZILLIONS of years ahead of 2k and 95) beign marginally the same in the user friendly department than any of Apple OS's. Win 95 is the worst thing that ever happened to a computer; never have I used an OS that had so many issues and that crashed so often.

1 non random sample size = no valid conclusions. I've uses thousands of computers in my IT career. Hell I've personally logged on to almost 3000 sun machines in one job (and those aren't very common in most companies). Come back when you've work in about a hundred different environments with thousands of different computers and then you can give significant average behavior summary.

 

[syadasti]

From my plastics text book:



The professor who taught the class wrote the book. He mentioned hazards in processing and problems with processing but says nothing about hazards in the processed plastic.

Its primarily a hazard in manufacture and disposal (incineration). Here you go, Wiki cover the three too:

]Phthalate plasticizers

Many Vinyl products contain additional chemicals to change the chemical consistency of the product. Some of these additional chemicals called additives can leach out of vinyl products. Plasticizers which must be added to make PVC flexible have been an additive of particular concern.

Because soft PVC toys have been made for babies for years, there are concerns that these additives leach out of soft toys into the mouths of the children chewing on them. Vinyl IV bags used in neo-natal intensive care units have also been shown to leach DEHP (Bis(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate), a phthalate additive. In January 2006, the European Union placed a ban on six types of phthalate softeners in toys (See directive 2005/84/EC). In 2003, the US Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) denied a petition for a similar ban in the United States[1]; however, in the USA most companies have voluntarily stopped manufacturing PVC toys for this age group or have eliminated the phthalates. In a draft guidance paper published in September 2002, the US FDA recognizes that many medical devices with PVC containing DEHP are not used in ways that result in significant human exposure to the chemical[2]. However, FDA is suggesting that manufacturers consider eliminating the use of DEHP in certain devices that can result in high aggregate exposures for sensitive patient populations such as neonates. However, alternative softeners have not been properly tested to determine whether they are more or less safe. Other vinyl products, including car interiors, shower curtains, flooring, etc., initially release chemical gases into the air. Some studies indicate that this outgassing of additives may contribute to health complications, but this information is preliminary and further study is needed. PVC comes under many terms as Petro Vinyl Common (another scientific name)

According to some medical studies, the plasticizers added to PVC may cause chronic conditions such as scleroderma, cholangiocarcinoma, angiosarcoma, brain cancer, and acrosteolysis. PVC has been used in many products for many years and still there is not proof of significant harmful effects from exposure. There have been studies, some cited in this article, that indicate "links" with certain medical problems and exposure to PVC products. These links deserve additional study.

In 2004, a joint Swedish-Danish research team found a very strong link between allergies in children and the phthalates DEHP and BBzP, commonly used in PVC[7].

Alternative plasticisers are being developed but in many cases these alternatives remain significantly more expensive and their technical performance varies. It is also worth noting that some, though not all, of the alternatives pose significant health risks.

One hospital network called the Catholic Healthcare West network, the 8th largest hospital network in the country, recently signed a contract with B.Braun for Vinyl free Intravenous(IV) bags and tubing.
[edit]

Vinyl chloride monomer

In the late 1960s, Dr. John Creech and Dr. Maurice Johnson were the first to clearly link and recognize the carcinogenicity of vinyl chloride monomer to humans when workers in the polyvinyl chloride polymerization section of a B.F. Goodrich plant near Louisville, Kentucky, were diagnosed with liver angiosarcoma, a rare disease.[8] Since that time, studies of PVC workers in Australia, Italy, Germany, and the UK have all associated certain types of occupational cancers with exposure to vinyl chloride. The link between angiosarcoma of the liver and long-term exposure to vinyl chloride is the only one which has been confirmed by the International Agency for Research on Cancer. All the cases of angiosarcoma developed from exposure to vinyl chloride monomer, were in workers who were exposed to very high VCM levels, routinely, for many years.

According to the EPA, "vinyl chloride emissions from polyvinyl chloride (PVC), ethylene dichloride (EDC), and vinyl chloride monomer (VCM) plants cause or contribute to air pollution that may reasonably be anticipated to result in an increase in mortality or an increase in serious irreversible, or incapacitating reversible illness. Vinyl chloride is a known human carcinogen which causes a rare cancer of the liver."[9]

A front-page series in the Houston Chronicle claimed the vinyl industry has manipulated vinyl chloride studies to avoid liability for worker exposure and to hide extensive and severe chemical spills into local communities.[10]
[edit]

Dioxins

The environmentalist group Greenpeace has advocated the global phase-out of PVC because they claim dioxin is produced as a byproduct of vinyl chloride manufacture and from incineration of waste PVC in domestic garbage. The European Industry, however, asserts that it has improved production processes to minimize dioxin emissions.

Dioxins are a global health threat because they persist in the environment and can travel long distances. At very low levels, near those to which the general population is exposed, dioxins have been linked to immune system suppression, reproductive disorders, a variety of cancers, and endometriosis. According to a 1994 report by the British firm, ICI Chemicals & Polymers Ltd., "It has been known since the publication of a paper in 1989 that these oxychlorination reactions [used to make vinyl chloride and some chlorinated solvents] generate polychlorinated dibenzodioxins (PCDDs) and dibenzofurans (PCDFs). The reactions include all of the ingredients and conditions necessary to form PCDD/PCDFs.... It is difficult to see how any of these conditions could be modified so as to prevent PCDD/PCDF formation without seriously impairing the reaction for which the process is designed." In other words, dioxins are an unavoidable consequence of making PVC. Dioxins created by vinyl chloride production are released by on-site incinerators, flares, boilers, wastewater treatment systems and even in trace quantities in vinyl resins.[11] The US EPA estimate of dioxin releases from the PVC industry (based on industry estimates) more than doubled between 1995 and 2000.[12]

The largest well-quantified source of dioxin in the US EPA inventory of dioxin sources is barrel burning of household waste.[13] Studies of household waste burning indicate consistent increases in dioxin generation with increasing PVC concentrations.[14] According to the EPA dioxin inventory, landfill fires are likely to represent an even larger source of dioxin to the environment. A survey of international studies consistently identifies high dioxin concentrations in areas affected by open waste burning and a study that looked at the homologue pattern found the sample with the highest dioxin concentration was “typical for the pyrolysis of PVC”. Other EU studies indicate that PVC likely “accounts for the overwhelming majority of chlorine that is available for dioxin formation during landfill fires.”[15]

The next largest sources of dioxin in the EPA inventory are medical and municipal waste incinerators. Studies have shown a clear correlation between dioxin formation and chloride content and indicate that PVC is a significant contributor to the formation of both dioxin and PCB in incinerators.

 

[syadasti]

Huh? I've noticed *no* difference as of yet to speak of between W2K and XP.

XP over 2000, from memory (I am missing lots):

Remote Desktop/Assistance (basically integrated/improved term services server/client)

System restore

Online error reporting

Visual enchancements (for example cleartype for LCDs)

Various software enchancements (Quick Format Options in installation, Settings and File Transfer Wizard, small UI changes, etc)

Various new hardware tech support without third party software (more power management technologies, wireless, etc)

Security improvements (particularly with SP2 - security center, automatic updates improve and on by default, built in firewall, antivirus monitor by OS, many new local/group policies for computer management)

Slower (needs more ram than Win2K too)

 

[Transcend]

What's hilarious, i sthat in everyone of these threads you bastardize, you point out things that no home user would ever care about for the most part.

For the majority of home users, a mac would be much easier to use and maintain, with many less issues to worry about. End of story. You can continue to spew nonsense as you normally do, but you aren't convincing anyone.

 

[syadasti]

I don't need to the because reality is that Mac are a small single digit percent of computers for well over decade. Better was never better and they didn't grow to be a major player, it wasn't good enough - end of story.

Today Apple is an not a major computer maker, they are an up and coming home electronics maker who has a monopoly on the DAP market. The home PC market is not a growing market and thats why all these PC makers are trying to diversify.

None of this changes the real topic, Apple's current highly irresponsible corporate practices.

 

[ZoRo]

1 non random sample size = no valid conclusions. I've uses thousands of computers in my IT career. Hell I've personally logged on to almost 3000 sun machines in one job (and those aren't very common in most companies). Come back when you've work in about a hundred different environments with thousands of different computers and then you can give significant average behavior summary.

You seem to think that the argument of authority (based on the fact that you are that "I.T." guy) overules what somebody personnaly thinks of a certain subject. Now, should one pretend in objectivity when it comes to delivering knowledge concerning computers only based on the fact that you've seen thousands of them? I just cannot accept the fact that an IT guy goes into a machine not having a predjustice about it's OS before booting it. Working as an IT only makes you more aware of your affinties about a certain OS and the fact that you do not like the others.

Now, don't reply telling me that you had a threesome with Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and that they told you there secret plans on conquering the world...

 

[ZoRo]

What's hilarious, i sthat in everyone of these threads you bastardize, you point out things that no home user would ever care about for the most part.

For the majority of home users, a mac would be much easier to use and maintain, with many less issues to worry about. End of story. You can continue to spew nonsense as you normally do, but you aren't convincing anyone.

There you go... That's simply it

 

[syadasti]

There you go... That's simply it

Its better for home users, but the really low skill ones have problems with both. Especially when you change their OS (or even their version of software they are using - great with OSX and Windows more improved and automatic updating technology[or many other standalone applications like Adobe, Quicktime/iTunes, etc ).

Larger marketshare turns over more problems as people will be running more iterations/variables(same reason I see more bugs with both platforms than an end user does) and people will discover more quickly flaws (and exploit them because they have a large enough userbase target - both Apple and Microsoft throw out rafts of patches throughout the year) .

You seem to think that the argument of authority (based on the fact that you are that "I.T." guy) overules what somebody personnaly thinks of a certain subject. Now, should one pretend in objectivity when it comes to delivering knowledge concerning computers only based on the fact that you've seen thousands of them? I just cannot accept the fact that an IT guy goes into a machine not having a predjustice about it's OS before booting it. Working as an IT only makes you more aware of your affinties about a certain OS and the fact that you do not like the others.

Its simple stats or common research skills, a very small sample (or number of sources) is meaningless.

You runs some stats or write a paper with data like yours and conclusions mean nothing to your peers, professors, etc...

I currently run and own systems with XP, OSX 10.4, and various flavors of Linux (mostly as tool or appliances for the mainstream OS computers). Most favoritism towards one or the other is purely out of habit and not wanting to tool up to get equally proficient in one or the other. They all have their weakness and advantages. For a vast majority of the world Apple has never had enough and thats why they've never taken off.

In the end they are tools like Snap-on, Craftsman, or Park. Each company has SOME tools that work better than the other. Maybe you use one tool really often and its the most important to you. One brand has a slightly better tool for this application but not another. They each make good tools but overall you can fix your bike with any of their tools.

 

[syadasti]

Apple wins again! Dirtiest cloud on the market:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/04/21/greenpeace_dirty_data_report_criticizes_apples_nc_data_center.html

http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/22/greenpeace-google-greenit/

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/climate-change/cool-it/

A recent report by environmental watchdog Greenpeace on energy practices in cloud computing called out Apple for relying on "dirty" energy for its $1 billion data center in Maiden, NC.

In a report titled "How dirty is your data?", Greenpeace rated Apple as having the lowest Clean Energy Index and the highest Coal Intensity among tech giants such as Facebook, Google, Microsoft and Amazon. Apple also received a 'C' for Transparency, an 'F' for instrastructure Siting and a 'C' for Mitigation Strategy on the environmental group's "Clean Cloud Power Report Card."

Shortly after their report circulated, Google announced that Google Energy LLC had signed a power purchase agreement (PPA) to buy 100.8 megawatts of wind-generated electricity to run its Okalahoma data centers from a NextEra Energy Resources&#8217;s Minco II Wind Energy Center under development in Grady and Caddo counties in Oklahoma. The companies hope the wind plant will be operational in late 2011.

Incentives for clean energy have caused an explosion in providers in NJ. Our business just built a 281 kW PV array on our facility. It wouldn't have been feasible without them. Our energy credits usually sell same day but we might switch to something similar to a PPA contract from the same company that buys our credits monthly. With the growth and demand of alternative energy the costs will come down and green power will be more accessible for all like the product cycle of most new technologies.

 

[IH8Rice]

wow, grave digging a 4.5 year old thread to bash Apple again. i am jack's complete lack of surprise

 

[syadasti]

They won again and it was still Greenpeace, not me. Apple improved their hardware last time they won the award.

 

[IH8Rice]

greenpeace didnt bring this thread bad from the dead.
does anyone take greenpeace seriously anymore?

 

[syadasti]

greenpeace didnt bring this thread bad from the dead.
does anyone take greenpeace seriously anymore?

Did you not read my last post, Apple launched their Greener Apple initiative 9 months later and improved their hardware after the first win, Microsoft signed a contract for wind energy for their Dublin data center, and Google signed contract for wind energy for their OK data center

 

[IH8Rice]

Did you not read my last post, Apple launched their Greener Apple initiative 9 months later and improved their hardware after the first win, Microsoft signed a contract for wind energy for their Dublin data center, and Google signed contract for wind energy for their OK data center

did you read my post?
greenpeace and or apple didnt necro post this thread just to bash yet another apple product.

and my question still stands. does anyone take greenpeace seriously besides you?

why do you have such a hard-on for bashing apple products? i mean, its friggin hilarious the effort you put in to do it, but did they kill your dog or something?