[ire]

This article goes along with what Blue said, they can retroactively cancel your policy and charge you the portion they covered.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20186938/

It's BS IMO. They look for any reason to not pay out, even if it means the person could die or lose everything fighting the disease

 

[Westy]

If there was universal healthcare I'd be living off my savings, travelling around and riding my ass off. Because I have a pre-existing condition I can never let my coverage lapse. If I change jobs/insurers the new insurer has to cover my condition after 18 months only if I never had a lapse in coverage.

 

[Echo]

I don't think "mutant ability to haul ass on a mountain bike" is a pre-existing condition they really care about dude.

 

[SkaredShtles]

If there was universal healthcare I'd be living off my savings, travelling around and riding my ass off.

I'd live in the mountains doing whatever...

Univeral health coverage would allow me to become the lazy non-working mountain bum I've always wanted.

 

[Jeremy R]

This article goes along with what Blue said, they can retroactively cancel your policy and charge you the portion they covered.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20186938/

It's BS IMO. They look for any reason to not pay out, even if it means the person could die or lose everything fighting the disease

I have been doing for this years, and the only policies I have had rescinded are from people who blatently lie on their applications.
For example, you check "No" to having diabetes or da sugar for the black folks and then as soon as your policy is issued, you try to fill a prescription for insulin. Then they get surprised when they are caught.
The real issue in not rescinding policies, the real issue is that if you have certain health condtions, you get DECLINED. Its legal to say, "Your money is no good here, go away."
If you are self-employed and do not have access to group health insurance, you'd better be 100% healthly or you are screwed.
IMO, that is the first thing the goverment should try to correct as I see this problem come up constantly.

 

[ire]

I have been doing for this years, and the only policies I have had rescinded are from people who blatently lie on their applications.
For example, you check "No" to having diabetes or da sugar for the black folks and then as soon as your policy is issued, you try to fill a prescription for insulin. Then they get surprised when they are caught.
The real issue in not rescinding policies, the real issue is that if you have certain health condtions, you get DECLINED. Its legal to say, "Your money is no good here, go away."
If you are self-employed and do not have access to group health insurance, you'd better be 100% healthly or you are screwed.
IMO, that is the first thing the goverment should try to correct as I see this problem come up constantly.

Thanks for the info, nice to hear it from someone who actually works at an insurance company. My only knowledge is what I read.

 

[Westy]

I don't think "mutant ability to haul ass on a mountain bike" is a pre-existing condition they really care about dude.

Psoriasis. It's not really a problem now but in 30 years it could get really bad and costs tens of thousands a year. I could easily pay out of my pocket for the treatments now but if I go uninsured for a single day in the next 30 years I could be screwed.

I'd live in the mountains doing whatever...

Univeral health coverage would allow me to become the lazy non-working mountain bum I've always wanted.

I wouldn't be a bum. I'd just live off of the money I've busted my ass to save over the past 10 years. The way it is now I'll just have to wait until I'm too old to do anything fun with it.

 

[Jeremy R]

Thanks for the info, nice to hear it from someone who actually works at an insurance company. My only knowledge is what I read.

Ooooo no, I don't work at an insurance company.
I work for my clients. I am a life and health ins. broker.
I help a lot of self-employed people get coverage.
And I see the flaws on all sides of the system.

 

[ire]

Ooooo no, I don't work at an insurance company.
I work for my clients. I am a life and health ins. broker.
I help a lot of self-employed people get coverage.
And I see the flaws on all sides of the system.

So do you produce the insurance policy for a company, or working independantly shopping the client around?

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
I wouldn't be a bum. I'd just live off of the money I've busted my ass to save over the past 10 years.

Yeah - out here if you're in the mountains having fun you're a "bum" - it's a badge of honor.

The way it is now I'll just have to wait until I'm too old to do anything fun with it.

That sucks donkey a$$.

 

[Westy]

Yeah - out here if you're in the mountains having fun you're a "bum" - it's a badge of honor.

That sucks donkey a$$.

I just need to find a sugar momma that will slave away at work and provide me health insurance.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I just need to find a sugar momma that will slave away at work and provide me health insurance.

You know - you should try moving out here and living in North Cherry Creek. I would imagine with all the cougars and desperate housewives that you should have *no* problems...

 

[J-Dubs]

yes, lets have the government do to health care what they've done for public education...

No Child Left Behind cut 6 billion from the education budget in its first year, claiming inefficiencies could be better managed with less people.

Bush f'ed that up, now Hill can f this up following his lead.

 

[dan-o]

Last time I checked DH bikes and fat sacks didn't cost over $10,000 per year

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

I'm self employed and pay over $12k for my family of four so I know what insurance costs.

I include myself in the statement of little sympathy for those who forego insurance for toys since I did that myself back in the day. I learned my lesson by having to pay off some staggering medical bills (ironically caused by enjoying those toys).

 

[Jeremy R]

So do you produce the insurance policy for a company, or working independantly shopping the client around?

I represent all the companies and shop my client around to whichever plan suits his needs.

 

[dan-o]

Even if you CAN afford basic health ins, many times you can't get it. Why? Ever heard of a "pre-existing condition"? If you HAVE health insurance, it can be scary going to the doctor. Why? You're afraid of what your insurance won't pay, or that they'll pull something as a pre-existing condition and write off your whole policy, sticking you with the bill from the past year... I need to go to the doctor right now, but I know that my insurance company will try hard as hell to prove what's wrong with me is a "preexisting condition", then write off my policy for the past year and stick me with a $3000+ bill, and ALSO make me uninsurable through ANYONE. I'm holding out for my employer insurance to kick in in November and hoping the whatever doesn't off me before then.

I'm 38 and haven't ever experienced any of what you describe. My 2yo recently broke his femur and my insurance covered all $18k in costs with my only expense being the $15 copay for each of the 6 visits (including ER). They didn't even question the changing of his body cast (a surgical procedure since he needed to be knocked out) due to my saying it, and I quote, "smelled like ass".

 

[N8 v2.0]

I'd live in the mountains doing whatever...

Univeral health coverage would allow me to become the lazy non-working mountain bum I've always wanted.

yep.

this is one of the many good things about the current system. forces people to actually *WORK* for benefits. no work, no coverage. if you elect not to get coverage that is offered thru your work, get sick/hurt, then suck it up and come out of pocket.

 

[Toshi]

yep.

this is one of the many good things about the current system. forces people to actually *WORK* for benefits. no work, no coverage. if you elect not to get coverage that is offered thru your work, get sick/hurt, then suck it up and come out of pocket.

what about the legions of people who work but don't have employer-offered insurance, or at least not at an exorbitant price? do your contracted employees all have health insurance? do you even care?

furthermore, what if the bulk of health care costs were spent in taking care of the destitute?

 

[N8 v2.0]

my brother is a Dr, eye surgeon to be exact. I asked him about his opinion on socialized medicine and he explained the following. he did some missions work in s. america with some canadian dr's a few years back and they told him that the government pays them the same whether they do 50 cases per day or 10 so they have no incentive to work hard and earn more for their efforts. so instead of working their arses off like most young american doctors who will reap the benefits of the extra work, the canadian doctors would simply take off 2 and 3 months at a time after they filled their minimum governmental requirements.

so....that was his experience with some doctors who work in socialized medicine and he's obviously against it. i'm still undecided because i believe that my brother's $35k per month salary is a bit excessive but on the other hand, he did work his butt off through college, med school and residency so that he could do what he loves AND get paid well for it. i can understand the resistance to a drastic reduction in salary that would come with government control.

all i know is when i need medical attention, i want the best dr and meds money can buy. no way i want a dr who's salary is capped or the gov telling me what meds i have to take because of the costs.

i pay over $700/mo for some damn good blue cross/blue shield... although it suxorz for the dentist and eye doc. but i pay the diff out of pocket and dont worry about it.

 

[blue]

I'm 38 and haven't ever experienced any of what you describe. My 2yo recently broke his femur and my insurance covered all $18k in costs with my only expense being the $15 copay for each of the 6 visits (including ER). They didn't even question the changing of his body cast (a surgical procedure since he needed to be knocked out) due to my saying it, and I quote, "smelled like ass".

It's not a sudden accident I'm concerned about, it's any long-term illnesses or conditions.

 

[N8 v2.0]

what about the legions of people who work but don't have employer-offered insurance, or at least not at an exorbitant price? do your contracted employees all have health insurance? do you even care?

furthermore, what if the bulk of health care costs were spent in taking care of the destitute?

i have to say that i pretty much dont care about the majority of these people.

i was there once but got my edumacation and moved up and out.

perhaps some sort of gov funded health care for the elderly and impoverished is a good idea... oh wait... that already exists... Medicare & Medicaid...

 

[Toshi]

there are 40 million+ people who aren't poor or disabled enough for medicaid and aren't 65 or on dialysis...

 

[N8 v2.0]

there are 40 million+ people who aren't poor or disabled enough for medicaid and aren't 65 or on dialysis...

obviously they arent dying off if there is 40M+of them, so they have to be getting by somehow.

if you want to help them, then i suggest you pay for their healthcare cuz i am not going to do it.

perhaps they should consider moving on up to the canadian utopia or that uber mecca of excellent healthcare in cuba..???

 

[blue]

obviously they arent dying off if there is 40M+of them, so they have to be getting by somehow.

if you want to help them, then i suggest you pay for their healthcare cuz i am not going to do it.

perhaps they should consider moving on up to the canadian utopia or that uber mecca of excellent healthcare in cuba..???

You deserve to get some horrific illness that's easily treatable at a hospital.

And then have your insurance drop you.

I sincerely hope the housing market collapse wipes your sorry ass out.

 

[N8 v2.0]

You deserve to get some horrific illness that's easily treatable at a hospital.

And then have your insurance drop you.

I sincerely hope the housing market collapse wipes your sorry ass out.

unfortunately for you, my spendy healthcare is top notch, and if the the housing market collapses... well i am a degreed electrical engineer with 20+ years of construction management. besides home building is more of my hobby so no big whoop if i decide tomorrow to quit doing it.

believe me, i'll be just fine.

 

[dan-o]

It's not a sudden accident I'm concerned about, it's any long-term illnesses or conditions.

I hear you, my younger brother was diagnosed schitzophrenic 15 years ago. Keeping him insured has been a bitch and his meds cost some serious coin even with insurance.

 

[BurlyShirley]

i have to say that i pretty much dont care about the majority of these people.

Well that's pretty much the heart of the issue, isnt it? What else needs to be said? I seriously can never get enough of how the "love-thy-neighbor" christian conservatives lacking the very empathy that's supposed to define them.
"Im not paying for it" huh? I hope your god reads that N8.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Well that's pretty much the heart of the issue, isnt it? What else needs to be said? I seriously can never get enough of how the "love-thy-neighbor" christian conservatives lacking the very empathy that's supposed to define them.
"Im not paying for it" huh? I hope your god reads that N8.

i dont believe in god/God whatever..

you and toshi/silver/chanleen should get together and pay for masses of people between 18 and 65 who are either noninsured or under insured. a good place to start is by giving them say 60% of your income.

 

[BurlyShirley]

i dont believe in god/God whatever..

Apologies for typecasting you, but, simply dont be such a social darwinist. Show some humanity. I share alot of the same concerns about people abusing and government waste, etc., but to simply say you dont care about the majority of these people is...I guess a sad indication of your moral character. Dont know what else to say.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Apologies for typecasting you, but, simply dont be such a social darwinist. Show some humanity. I share alot of the same concerns about people abusing and government waste, etc., but to simply say you dont care about the majority of these people is...I guess a sad indication of your moral character. Dont know what else to say.

unfortunately i know a lot of people who are uninsured and usually they work exclusively for booze/dope money.. they could care or less if they have coverage until they get hurt then expect us (collectively) to pay for their care simply because (we) have spent the time to get educated & work our asses off to move up the chain??

again, why should i care?

 

[BurlyShirley]

i dont believe in god/God whatever..

you and toshi/silver/chanleen should get together and pay for masses of people between 18 and 65 who are either noninsured or under insured. a good place to start is by giving them say 60% of your income.

I would gladly pay much higher taxes than pay out-of-pocket the way I am now for some pretty average coverage. I'd also appreciate my tax dollars spent healing people rather than bombing them, personally. Why are you okay with frivilously wasting your tax dollars on that?

 

[BurlyShirley]

unfortunately i know a lot of people who are uninsured and usually they work exclusively for booze/dope money.. they could care or less if they have coverage until they get hurt then expect us (collectively) to pay for their care.

why should i care?

I know alot of ****ty people as well, but lets not steretype anyone short on money for a time as completely worthless or dopeheads. I got into some debt by not having health insurance and I managed to get out of it pretty quickly. But if I'd gotten cancer instead of mono, Id be dead. Do I deserve death for having been low-income for a time?

 

[ire]

unfortunately i know a lot of people who are uninsured and usually they work exclusively for booze/dope money.. they could care or less if they have coverage until they get hurt then expect us (collectively) to pay for their care simply because (we) have spent the time to get educated & work our asses off to move up the chain??

again, why should i care?

What you fail to realize is that the uninsured are causing your rates and health care costs to go up. This is an issue you should care about, unless you want another 75% hike in cost over the next five years.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I would gladly pay much higher taxes than pay out-of-pocket the way I am now for some pretty average coverage. I'd also appreciate my tax dollars spent healing people rather than bombing them, personally. Why are you okay with frivilously wasting your tax dollars on that?

bombing 'people' is a pretty broad description...

in general i am opposed to bombing people.


i'll make an exception for people who need bombed tho.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I know alot of ****ty people as well, but lets not steretype anyone short on money for a time as completely worthless or dopeheads. I got into some debt by not having health insurance and I managed to get out of it pretty quickly. But if I'd gotten cancer instead of mono, Id be dead. Do I deserve death for having been low-income for a time?

i was there once... i was working as an engineering intern and elected NOT to pay the $600/mo insurance premium and pocketed it instead. then i came down with bell's palsy and my (then infant) daughter had to hospitalized for 3 days... i learned the hard way that paying the premiums would have been a hell of a lot cheaper. i paid on those bills for 7 years until i had them paid off. Guess what? Since then i pay the premium.

should you have been obligated to pay my tab so i could continue to pocket the coin???

 

[N8 v2.0]

What you fail to realize is that the uninsured are causing your rates and health care costs to go up. This is an issue you should care about, unless you want another 75% hike in cost over the next five years.

i dont know what kind of sh!tty policy you have but you need to switch... my premium has increased less than 15% since 1996.

 

[Toshi]

i dont know what kind of sh!tty policy you have but you need to switch... my premium has increased less than 15% since 1996.

either you were getting shafted in 1996 or you have some kind of magical policy. health insurance premiums have outpaced inflation soundly for many a year

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

In 2005 (the latest year data are available), total national health expenditures rose 6.9 percent -- two times the rate of inflation (1). Total spending was $2 TRILLION in 2005, or $6,700 per person (1). Total health care spending represented 16 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP).

U.S. health care spending is expected to increase at similar levels for the next decade reaching $4 TRILLION in 2015, or 20 percent of GDP (2).

In 2006, employer health insurance premiums increased by 7.7 percent – two times the rate of inflation. The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $11,500. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,200 (3).

i personally pay $1300 a year for single coverage, but it's the worst coverage in history, 80/20 in theory but more like 50/50 from what i've experienced. shelling out $200 for an ER visit WITH COVERAGE is not cool.

 

[Changleen]

should you have been obligated to pay my tab so i could continue to pocket the coin???

I think the points are:

1) The cost shouldn't have been so high in the first place
2) Everyone shares everyone's bills as a part of tax.

Extra insurance should not actually be required by anyone, only those who feel they want a extra-high level of service.

As an aside the best (most comprehensive / high tech / generally good) medical treatments I have received were in Menlo Park, CA and in Southern France. Insurance paid for the US incident, the UK/Euro taxpayer for the French incident.

 

[N8 v2.0]

either you were getting shafted in 1996 or you have some kind of magical policy. health insurance premiums have outpaced inflation soundly for many a year

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml



i personally pay $1300 a year for single coverage, but it's the worst coverage in history, 80/20 in theory but more like 50/50 from what i've experienced. shelling out $200 for an ER visit WITH COVERAGE is not cool.

ok... i stand corrected... since 2002 i've had a 29% increase. big f'ig whoop.

i have a $250/person up to $500 max deductable and then pretty much 100% coverage after than aside from a $10 copay.

i been hospitalized, operated on and was out a $10 copay...

 

[SPINTECK]

For a forum I usually respect for facts and objectivity I'm disappointed in the lack of numbers, especially from the engineer that supports the current system.

The real question is :

How much money goes to profit and dividend holders of healthcare companies and can the government do a more efficient job? What numbers did Moore claim to have?? 7cents of every dollar goes to costs of administration with medicare and 28 cents (or was it higher?) goes to profits and administration of our current healthcare??

I work for big pharma and you are kidding yourself if you think the middle class isn't paying the bill for the rich and the poor.

I'm always amazed by people in industry who are well educated and feel they deserve healthcare while the lazy masses and poor should die in the street- because that's what would happen if hospitals didn't take them in!