[N8 v2.0]

I think the points are:

1) The cost shouldn't have been so high in the first place
2) Everyone shares everyone's bills as a part of tax.

Extra insurance should not actually be required by anyone, only those who feel they want a extra-high level of service.

As an aside the best (most comprehensive / high tech / generally good) medical treatments I have received were in Menlo Park, CA and in Southern France. Insurance paid for the US incident, the UK/Euro taxpayer for the French incident.

so you are saying that although i could afford the insurance premium, under your system, i wouldn't have pay for it because the you and the rest of hte good people of where ever paid it for me???

i am eligible for this coverage even if i choose not to work my ass off and join the ranks of the un/under employed only-here-for-the-pot hippies??

 

[N8 v2.0]

For a forum I usually respect for facts and objectivity I'm disappointed in the lack of numbers, especially from the engineer that supports the current system.

The real question is :

How much money goes to profit and dividend holders of healthcare companies and can the government do a more efficient job? What numbers did Moore claim to have?? 7cents of every dollar goes to costs of administration with medicare and 28 cents (or was it higher?) goes to profits and administration of our current healthcare??

I work for big pharma and you are kidding yourself if you think the middle class isn't paying the bill for the rich and the poor.

I'm always amazed by people in industry who are well educated and feel they deserve healthcare while the lazy masses and poor should die in the street- because that's what would happen if hospitals didn't take them in!

Moore is a retarded jackass and the current system works fine for me.

You whiners can say its broken but neither i (nor my family) has has ever had an insurance problem since 1958 when my pops signed up with BlueCross/BlueShield. Aside from the rare incorrect billing.

 

[SPINTECK]

so you are saying that although i could afford the insurance premium, under your system, i wouldn't have pay for it because the you and the rest of hte good people of where ever paid it for me???

i am eligible for this coverage even if i choose not to work my ass off and join the ranks of the un/under employed only-here-for-the-pot hippies??

yes.

and if you get a heart murmor due to an enlarged left ventricle from riding all your life, you would not be penalized.

some people can't afford childcare so they stay home to take care of the kids. some people try to make their dream come true and leave their job to start a business. These people too would be covered.

In Britan, you can pay more if you would like supplemental insurance, but few do.

 

[SPINTECK]

Moore is retartarded?? and Bush is not?


Retarded or not, if the numbers are true and accurate it is a fair debate.

 

[ire]

the current system works fine for me.

That pretty much sums up your argument, anything that benefits you is good, regardless of the cost to society. Ride the middle class as far as you can and when they finally break, don't bitch that you can't make a dime.

BTW....I have great coverage, employer pays full premium and a $5 copay with $1 prescriptions. You can't beat it....matter of fact....I have it better than you

 

[N8 v2.0]

yes.

and if you get a heart murmor due to an enlarged left ventricle from riding all your life, you would not be penalized.

some people can't afford childcare so they stay home to take care of the kids. some people try to make their dream come true and leave their job to start a business. These people too would be covered.

In Britan, you can pay more if you would like supplemental insurance, but few do.

sounds to that people who cant afford day care for their kids thereby staying at home shouldn't expect me (or the rest of us) to foot the bill for their indulgence. however, my ex worked for Dept of Social Services (read Welfare) for a number of years and if a mother "wants" to work and cant afford day care, the system has that covered by giving them day care vouchers. people on welfare are all can (and do) get on medicaid which is pretty much a gov supplied tax-payer funded health care plan that doent cost the users anything.

 

[N8 v2.0]

That pretty much sums up your argument, anything that benefits you is good, regardless of the cost to society. Ride the middle class as far as you can and when they finally break, don't bitch that you can't make a dime.

BTW....I have great coverage, employer pays full premium and a $5 copay with $1 prescriptions. You can't beat it....matter of fact....I have it better than you

great! happy for you. you just might work for the us postal service then??


now get back to bitching about how bad the system is that's covering your ass.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Moore is retartarded?? and Bush is not?


Retarded or not, if the numbers are true and accurate it is a fair debate.

it wasnt bush who said cuba has a vastly superior health care system to the usa.

yep... moore is a retard.

 

[ire]

great! happy for you.


now get back to bitching about how bad the system is that's covering your ass.

The system is bad and, unlike you, I recognize that we would be better off with a different system. I ran my own business and had to flip for my own insurance and it sucked.

 

[N8 v2.0]

The system is bad and, unlike you, I recognize that we would be better off with a different system. I ran my own business and had to flip for my own insurance and it sucked.

i've done that was well.. yeah it sucks but know what? you work thru it and improve your coverage. but yeah, it takes time and effort... much easier for someone else do it all for you and let the gov handle it.

i recognize the system has its flaws and limitations, but i dont see anything i would give it up for at the moment.

 

[blue]

i personally pay $1300 a year for single coverage, but it's the worst coverage in history, 80/20 in theory but more like 50/50 from what i've experienced. shelling out $200 for an ER visit WITH COVERAGE is not cool.

Sounds like mine, but I'm closer to 700 a year. It's terrible...two hospitals within 50 miles are covered. Keep in mind, I live in a 1.5million pop metro area...They're both renowned as being places you go to to get stat.

 

[Changleen]

i've done that was well.. yeah it sucks but know what? you work thru it and improve your coverage. but yeah, it takes time and effort... much easier for someone else do it all for you and let the gov handle it.

i recognize the system has its flaws and limitations, but i dont see anything i would give it up for at the moment.

How about essentially the same system, with the same quality of care (or maybe even a little better as the economics would push for cures not treatment of the symptoms) - but you don't have to pay insurance for it, and nor does anyone else? It does and can exist.

 

[N8 v2.0]

How about essentially the same system, with the same quality of care (or maybe even a little better as the economics would push for cures not treatment of the symptoms) - but you don't have to pay insurance for it, and nor does anyone else? It does and can exist.

for the last time...

I am NOT moving to Cuba!

 

[Echo]

ok... i stand corrected... since 2002 i've had a 29% increase. big f'ig whoop.

i have a $250/person up to $500 max deductable and then pretty much 100% coverage after than aside from a $10 copay.

i been hospitalized, operated on and was out a $10 copay...

Must be nice to be able to choose which health insurance provider to get raped by.

But speaking as one of the millions upon millions of people who work for a large, household name, fortune 500 company, who has steadily watched my health insurance go from very good coverage to completely CRAP coverage in the last 5 years, someone who WITH HEALTH INSURANCE had to pay almost $800 out of pocket for a relatively minor injury this year...

F*ck you. Your rich living in the clouds ass doesn't know SH!T about what it means to make a living as an average American. People like you are why this country will fall from glory.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Sounds like mine, but I'm closer to 700 a year. It's terrible...two hospitals within 50 miles are covered. Keep in mind, I live in a 1.5million pop metro area...They're both renowned as being places you go to to get stat.

$700 per year????

you spend more than that on freekin cable tv annually...

 

[N8 v2.0]

Must be nice to be able to choose which health insurance provider to get raped by.

But speaking as one of the millions upon millions of people who work for a large, household name, fortune 500 company, who has steadily watched my health insurance go from very good coverage to completely CRAP coverage in the last 5 years, someone who WITH HEALTH INSURANCE had to pay almost $800 out of pocket for a relatively minor injury this year...

F*ck you. Your rich living in the clouds ass doesn't know SH!T about what it means to make a living as an average American. People like you are why this country will fall from glory.

wtf? you are not owned by the company you work for. if it sucks as bad as you say, f'ing move on to something better. no one has a gun to your head forcing you to stay. christ, you sound like one of those asshat friends of mine who bitch about their wives and how they hate them and how they suck, yet continue to be married to them. your company is boning you because you let them bone you.

sorry no sympathy from me.

 

[valve bouncer]

N8 you don't have sympathy for anyone, everything about you is "me, me, me". I don't hope you get cancer, you are cancer.

 

[N8 v2.0]

N8 you don't have sympathy for anyone, everything about you is "me, me, me". I don't hope you get cancer, you are cancer.

wrong-o dorkster; i have sympathy for people who are murdered thru no fault of their own

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/07/24/home.invasion.ap/index.html?eref=edition_us

 

[dan-o]

Must be nice to be able to choose which health insurance provider to get raped by.

But speaking as one of the millions upon millions of people who work for a large, household name, fortune 500 company, who has steadily watched my health insurance go from very good coverage to completely CRAP coverage in the last 5 years, someone who WITH HEALTH INSURANCE had to pay almost $800 out of pocket for a relatively minor injury this year...

F*ck you. Your rich living in the clouds ass doesn't know SH!T about what it means to make a living as an average American. People like you are why this country will fall from glory.

You don't need to accept your employers ****ty coverage. If it's so bad buy your own; only then will you know how much it sucks not to have company subsidized coverage. I pay $1100 PER MONTH whether I'm sick or not.

 

[Changleen]

$1100? What an absolute waste of cash!

 

[N8 v2.0]

$1100? What an absolute waste of cash!

no sh!t... for that kinda dough you can get a set of decent rims for your car.

fuk health coverage!

 

[dan-o]

$1100? What an absolute waste of cash!

See my earlier post. In the month of july alone I would've paid $18k for my son's injury. Without health we are nothing.....that's the rub.

 

[Echo]

Some of you people really are f*cking morons. Miss the point much? So you think $1100 per month for health care is reasonable? You think my health benefits are the only reason I work where I do? Jesus christ open your eyes you idiots.

I pay A LOT more for my healthcare today than I did 5 years ago, and the coverage is not nearly as good. Stick your retarded heads in the sand and chalk it up to inflation if you want, but anyone with a f*cking brain knows that we're all getting screwed. Hillary can't fix it, and there isn't a politician or group of politicians in the country who can fix it either.

We have N7 gloating about how he's so rich it doesn't matter, and this genius dan-o acting like we should consider ourselves lucky that we aren't getting gangraped by bigger dildos. Where do you halfwits come from?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Some of you people really are f*cking morons. Miss the point much? So you think $1100 per month for health care is reasonable? You think my health benefits are the only reason I work where I do? Jesus christ open your eyes you idiots.

I pay A LOT more for my healthcare today than I did 5 years ago, and the coverage is not nearly as good. Stick your retarded heads in the sand and chalk it up to inflation if you want, but anyone with a f*cking brain knows that we're all getting screwed. Hillary can't fix it, and there isn't a politician or group of politicians in the country who can fix it either.

We have N7 gloating about how he's so rich it doesn't matter, and this genius dan-o acting like we should consider ourselves lucky that we aren't getting gangraped by bigger dildos. Where do you halfwits come from?

good god.. just admit you dont have the stones to find something better.

sure its easier to do nothing than it is to do something, i understand that, but complaining about your crappy bene's isnt going to make your company improve them because you are still there... whining & bitching... but still there. like always.

lthumbsdown:

 

[dan-o]

Some of you people really are f*cking morons. Miss the point much? So you think $1100 per month for health care is reasonable? You think my health benefits are the only reason I work where I do? Jesus christ open your eyes you idiots.

I pay A LOT more for my healthcare today than I did 5 years ago, and the coverage is not nearly as good. Stick your retarded heads in the sand and chalk it up to inflation if you want, but anyone with a f*cking brain knows that we're all getting screwed. Hillary can't fix it, and there isn't a politician or group of politicians in the country who can fix it either.

We have N7 gloating about how he's so rich it doesn't matter, and this genius dan-o acting like we should consider ourselves lucky that we aren't getting gangraped by bigger dildos. Where do you halfwits come from?

Why don't you sack up and control your own destiny? All you do is bitch about your job yet you stick around. Make a change or STFU. I don't want to pay $1100/mo but the benefits outweigh the cost and my wife's insurance options suck. If controlling my destiny makes me a moron then so be it, enjoy your cube of diminishing returns you entitled douche.

 

[Echo]

I don't want to pay $1100/mo but the benefits outweigh the cost and my wife's insurance options suck.

So why doesn't she change jobs and control her f*cking destiny you imbicile?

 

[N8 v2.0]

So why doesn't she change jobs and control her f*cking destiny you imbicile?

maybe she thinks that cost is worth it u dipshick

 

[dan-o]

So why doesn't she change jobs and control her f*cking destiny you imbicile?

Because she was dumb enough to get a PHD in Art History and only works part time due to raising our two kids while being on the board of two organizations dedicated to helping underpriviledged kids.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Some of you people really are f*cking morons. Jesus christ open your eyes you idiots. Stick your retarded heads in the sand and chalk it up to inflation if you want, but anyone with a f*cking brain knows that we're all getting screwed. Where do you halfwits come from?

oh come on... if one of the duller tools in the shed can figure out the system then surely an ultra-ubber genius elitist like yourself can easily do the same.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I think Echo must be drunk.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I think Echo must be drunk.

just what the hell are you doing in here? shouldnt you attached to bogey's sig block???

 

[blue]

I think Echo must be drunk.

I like this.

I hope some fvcker gets banned tonight, it's been a long time coming.

Tell me, asshat, why is the US occupying Iraq at present? Shouldn't they be able to "sack up" and take care of themselves, like the millions without insurance should in this country?

I pay $700 a year so that if I turn my back into a million tiny pieces on my bike/in my car, my family isn't saddled with hundreds of thousands in debt (instead, they just get tens of thousands - hooray 80/20 coverage). That includes absolutely no preventative care at all.

No other insurance company would take me because I had/have chest pain and went to the doctor for it...once. Hopefully the insurance my work provides will be more forgiving, but I don't have my hopes up...you see, I work in hospitals...

unfortunately for you, my spendy healthcare is top notch, and if the the housing market collapses... well i am a degreed electrical engineer with 20+ years of construction management. besides home building is more of my hobby so no big whoop if i decide tomorrow to quit doing it.

believe me, i'll be just fine.

20+ years eh? That makes you at LEAST what, 45?

My ass someone will hire you for nothing more than peanuts. It's okay. You deserve FAR less, consider your worthless piece of **** ass lucky.

 

[ire]

This one is for N8
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20201807/

A good article about a person with health insurance who loses it at an inopportune time and then ends up bankrupt after fighting cancer. Is this one of the millions that should take care of the themselves? Why should you care? You have "great" health insurance.

 

[N8 v2.0]

This one is for N8
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20201807/

A good article about a person with health insurance who loses it at an inopportune time and then ends up bankrupt after fighting cancer. Is this one of the millions that should take care of the themselves? Why should you care? You have "great" health insurance.

that's unfortunate no doubt, now post the one of the millions of stories where some poor person get cancer and their health ins co pays humdreds of thousands for their care which results in them beating the disease.

 

[ire]

that's unfortunate no doubt, now post the one of the millions of stories where some poor person get cancer and their health ins co pays humdreds of thousands for their care which results in them beating the disease.

If my Mom makes it, she'll be one of them

 

[N8 v2.0]

If my Mom makes it, she'll be one of them

i've know people who've made it thru, so it is possible.

I sincerely hope she makes it.

 

[RenegadeRick]

Here I was enjoying my and then this thread went personal and sympathetic and well... pleasant.
I am sorely disappointed in you s.



Hope your mom comes through OK, ire.

 

[ire]

Sorry about getting all personal on everyone...although it did show N8 has some, albeit very little, compassion. I was just trying to illustrate that this is a personal issue to many people. I'm sure all of us know someone who has had cancer, or some other horrific disease, and think about the number of people w/o insurance that are struck with these diseases and will die for lack of care.

<edit> or people who could have survived had the disease been detected earlier...but wasn't becuase they couldn't afford doctors visits

 

[N8 v2.0]

well I do know for a fact that ppl with great insurance die from treatable cancer because they doNT want to go to the dr or they suspect somethingnis wrong but won't admit it by getting it looked at. Not saying $'s isn't an issue, but it sure isn't the only issue.

 

[ire]

well I do know for a fact that ppl with great insurance die from treatable cancer because they do want to go to the dr or they suspect somethingnis wrong but won't admit it by getting it looked at. Not saying $'s isn't an issue, but it sure isn't the only issue.

Wow, I actually agree with you on something. Too many people pass up preventative care and screening for diseases. I heard, but haven't confirmed, that is $1 of preventative care saves $2 later (for disease treatment and such).