[Silver]

Then I'm going to change my belief, which currently is that some riders are clean and simply work hard and have good genetics to "They are all cheating." I've held out hope that there aren't just good cheats and people who got caught, but that thread of hope is fraying fast.

Seriously...my faith in any kind of cycling or running race is going to be permanently gone if this is true.

 

[Transcend]

I did this years ago. Only ones not cheating are the Dhers, because it does them absolutely no good!

 

[DBR X6 RIDER]

Then I'm going to change my belief, which currently is that some riders are clean and simply work hard and have good genetics to "They are all cheating." I've held out hope that there aren't just good cheats and people who got caught, but that thread of hope is fraying fast.

Seriously...my faith in any kind of cycling or running race is going to be permanently gone if this is true.

I couldnt' agree with you more. The fiasco of the early-season was almost enough, but I said the same thing. There ARE clean guys that are getting screwed by the cheats/dopers.
This one would be the straw to break this camel's back.

Tyler, of all people, would be the VERY last person in the pro peleton that I would even consider to be a doper.

I'm concerned.

 

[Trond]

I did this years ago. Only ones not cheating are the Dhers, because it does them absolutely no good!

I don't agree (or get the irony )

How can better stamina, strength, higher lactic acid limits, focus etc etc do a downhiller no good? As long as physical abilities play a vital role in performing at a high level, someone will be doping. Guaranteed.

 

[cycleman]

if anyone wants to read about the earlier Prentice allegations on Hamilton: http://www.velonews.com/tour2004/diaries/articles/6685.0.html
and tyler's rebuttal:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2004/diaries/articles/6685.0.html
or an article that mentions why homologous transfusions might be used, for example by the US 1984 Olympic cycling team:
http://www.tc.cc.tx.us/~mstorey/beckham.html

 

[JMAC]

If Tyler is found guilty which it seems hard to seem him not being found guilty now. It'll be alot harder to belief that Lance has been clean all these years.

 

[LordOpie]

If Tyler is found guilty which it seems hard to seem him not being found guilty now. It'll be alot harder to belief that Lance has been clean all these years.

Calling Loco-Gringo... Come in LG...

 

[Westy]

If Tyler is found guilty which it seems hard to seem him not being found guilty now. It'll be alot harder to belief that Lance has been clean all these years.

Shouldn't you be studying for a drivers test?

 

[JRB]

If Tyler is found guilty which it seems hard to seem him not being found guilty now. It'll be alot harder to belief that Lance has been clean all these years.

If Tyler is found guilty, which it seems that he will be. It'll be alot harder to believe that Lance has been clean all these years.


JMAC - please rewrite the above sentences on the chalk board 8 billion times. Maybe repetition can do something for you. I doubt it, but maybe. LordOpie - can this really help him???

 

[Echo]

If Tyler is found guilty which it seems hard to seem him not being found guilty now. It'll be alot harder to belief that Lance has been clean all these years.

You need some new material.

 

[LordOpie]

I doubt it, but maybe. LordOpie - can this really help him???

I could/couldn't (circle the one that makes you happiest) care less. I called you to entertain me, not educate a DVNT.

 

[JRB]

I could/couldn't (circle the one that makes you happiest) care less. I called you to entertain me, not educate a DVNT.

Do you mean JMAC???

 

[LordOpie]

Do you mean JMAC???

You didn't know DVNT = darwin's very next target?

What's a JMAC? Jackin' Monkey Ass Catcher? yeah, I got nothing... off to lunch.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Everyone is on dope, and has been for years. Domestic road pros are on dope, jrs and cat 3's are on stuff. Expert xc racers on on ****. It is a fact of life, we are pressured to suceed and it is too easy, and too effective not to dope. Fraser has a hard time believing that DH racers are on Dope, but there is no reason for them not to be. I could list an armful of banned ergogenics and even more that aren't banned that jo-pro DH could take to be stronger or have more aerobic fitness.
Doping is a societal problem that is highly related to the transient materialistic nature of western society and its focus on short term material wealth. But that being said even the most zen buddhist rippers out there are taking ****.
You guys can't have it both ways, either accept the sport as it is, dirty, or walk away.

 

[LordOpie]

You guys can't have it both ways, either accept the sport as it is, dirty, or walk away.

that's bogus.

Anti-doping regs are to protect the athletes. If everyone was allowed to take whatever they wanted, wouldn't the playing field be level? And wouldn't the athletes die at a young age from bizarre sh:t?

Don't put it on the fans.

 

[SuspectDevice]

that's bogus.

Anti-doping regs are to protect the athletes. If everyone was allowed to take whatever they wanted, wouldn't the playing field be level? And wouldn't the athletes die at a young age from bizarre sh:t?

Don't put it on the fans.

Atheletes do die at a bizarrely young age, My point is the first step to solving a problem is admiting that you have one. Thats AA 101. Elite level sport is broken and it needs to be fixed. The first step to that is accepting the atheletes are dirty, so that they themselves are not afraid to admit it. It is unfair to blame the athelete for a problem that was created by a system that they cannot control.

 

[biggins]

smokin dope

 

[Olyroller]

If Tyler is found guilty which it seems hard to seem him not being found guilty now. It'll be alot harder to belief that Lance has been clean all these years.

oh come on, really, what are we guilty first, go to France then. :mumble:

 

[Silver]

If Tyler is found guilty which it seems hard to seem him not being found guilty now. It'll be alot harder to belief that Lance has been clean all these years.

I know piling on JMAC for Lance bashing is easy to do, but I agree with him here.

Of course, if Tyler and Lance aren't clean, then I don't think Ullrich is either...

 

[MtnbikeMike]

<snip>Expert xc racers on on ****.

Ummmmm....no?

 

[chicodude]

so, Acording to some of you, If i want to get anywhere in the world of cycling, i have to dope? I'll stick to the hard work thank you very much.

I dont think Lance dopes, but what do i know?

 

[MtnbikeMike]

Yep, I guess you have to take performancing-enhancing drugs to race. I just found out from SuspectD that I dope.

 

[DBR X6 RIDER]

Yep, I guess you have to take performancing-enhancing drugs to race. I just found out from SuspectD that I dope.

Got any spare syringes??

I'm glad I just love riding. I don't want any more pressure than I put on myself already.

 

[blue]

Yep, I guess you have to take performancing-enhancing drugs to race. I just found out from SuspectD that I dope.

Yeah man...let me go grab my transfusion bag and bottle of EPO before the race saturday, don't let me forget!

Doping is indeed rampant throughout the cycling world, and it disappoints me. One of my goals is to eventually go pro, and I know this sounds naive and innocent from what I've seen, but I will never, ever, EVER, dope. However, it seems to me that the Euros seem to be doping more than the Americans do (If we're talking XC racing).

I would be disappointed if it was discovered that Lance is a doper, but I wouldn't be shocked. With Tyler getting nailed with this ish, it sort of takes away a lot of my faith in the pro cycling community.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Ummmmm....no?

You may not be on ****, but that doesn't mean that other people aren't. Drugs are easy to come by, relatively cheap and very effective. I've seen plenty of expert xc racers pop a caf/ephedra/ asprin stack, I know plenty that use decongestant alone as well. I know juniors that take pro-hormones for better recovery. I know masters racers that have dabbled in amphetamines. I know cat 2 women on T. That **** is all doping, and it's all just as serious and bad as homologus blood transfusions or EPO. Don't be afraid to open your eyes and take a look around, even at the recreational level our sport, like any other sport is ripe with cheaters and dopers.

 

[DBR X6 RIDER]

Well, this keeps getting interesting...sort of. The LATEST article from Velonews re: press conference and test results.
Good to see Team Phonak will hire independent scientists to conduct the new tests properly, as it sounds like they still don't have a set method within the sport (go figure).

 

[cycleman]

Atheletes do die at a bizarrely young age, My point is the first step to solving a problem is admiting that you have one. Thats AA 101. Elite level sport is broken and it needs to be fixed. The first step to that is accepting the atheletes are dirty, so that they themselves are not afraid to admit it. It is unfair to blame the athelete for a problem that was created by a system that they cannot control.

I partly agree with this but I don't think its really fair to blame the fans - we don't care need athletes to do superhuman feats. Its rubbish when people say that. Its the race that's important - i don't think anyone would really care if the racers weren't any quicker than in Eddy Mercx's day (after all Armstrong didn't close on Alpe D'Huez to Pantani's time - although of course Pantani probably had chemical assistance (too)). People like competition. Athletes dope because they think they can gain an advantage or because they think others are doping. If it could be definitively stopped through testing there wouldn't be a problem, people wouldn't suddenly stop watching races.

However, the kind of pressure from fans that does make them guilty is I think well illustrated by the criticism Ullrich has received this year. I'm not saying Ullrich's clean and Armstrong's not. I have no idea. But the bashing he received this year for not being able to acheive his best form and for basically just not being fast enough was totally unfair and pressures athletes into illegal means of ensuring their performances are perfect. For all the talk of "preparation", the human body is unreliable and susceptible (particularly when pushed to extremes) and drugs are the only way to overcome this. Instead of bashing people when they falter we should be suspicious when they show no weaknesses.

 

[Damn True]

Innocent until PROVEN guilty.
One spurious test from a shady lab that couldn't repeat the results with a sample taken the same day does not constitute proof.

It's hip to be a cynic.
I'm glad to be uncool.

 

[Mani_UT]

I've seen plenty of expert xc racers pop a caf/ephedra/ asprin stack, .

You mean like guronzan? I was living on that in college especially during finals! Not too sure if it has ephedra though. The stuff will keep you going though!..I was not racing back then..
Now I race but I am slow and don't take anything. What I really need is a drug that would help me grow balls (I am sure If tested I'd fail though because I drink a LOT of coffee.. Probably 8/10 cups a day.. My body is so use to it though it probably has not beneficial effects.. If anything it keeps me in a constant state of dehydration!)

What you're saying about XC racers is pretty sad though
I don't get it! Why?

 

[Mani_UT]

You mean like guronzan? I was living on that in college especially during finals! Not too sure if it has ephedra though. ?

hum just checked..
Actually guronsan is not that bad:

Caffeine 50,0 mg
Glucuronamide 400,0 mg
Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C) 500,0 mg
Glucuronolactone 30,0 mg

 

[Mani_UT]

hum just checked..
Actually guronsan is not that bad:
Caffeine 50 mg
Glucuronamide 400 mg
Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C) 500 mg
Glucuronolactone 30 mg

funny comparaison with...

Redbull:
Caffeine 80 mg
Glucuronolactone 600 mg !!

LOL.. It seems If I was still a student Red Bull would not be a bad choice either