Quantcast

Initial Impressions: 2014 Banshee Spitfire v2 650b

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
Background

After riding a Nomad Carbon with a Push link for about three years, I was craving change. It was my first VPP bike and while I generally liked the suspension manners, there were a number of things I didn't quite get along with, even with the upgraded Push link and RC4 shock out back. The bike's geometry was the main issue - it felt pretty tall, and at 6'1 with a preference for 50mm stems, the reach on the large was quite short. To get the suspension to feel nice on the downs, I had to compromise the acceleration of the bike, which made it less than awesome to ride in tight terrain where you really had to snap at the pedals. I refurbished a Chromag Samurai in the Fall of last year and it had become my bike of choice purely because of the comfortable geometry and fun, more responsive handling.

I was looking for something a bit more playful with a longer reach and lower BB that could really be smashed around on local trails, but still retained a degree of responsiveness. The Evil Uprising, Commencal Meta AM 650b, Kona Process 153, and Banshee Spitfire had all made my short list. The Banshee ended up making the most financial sense, AND IT CAME IN SIXHUNDREDFIFTY BEEEZ! I was initially resistant to the larger wheelsize, but after building and riding my dad's Paradox, I was confident that Banshee understood how to retain snappy handling qualities in a larger wheel format. With only 140mm of travel, I figured the Spitfire could benefit from the bit of added wheel diameter without feeling too boat-like. So I bit the bullet and went for it.

The Build

spitfire.jpg
Frame: '14 Spitfire v2, revised 142x12mm 650b dropouts, size L, raw
Shock: Cane Creek DB Air CS
Fork: XFusion Sweep 160mm, 15mm axle
Headset: Cane Creek 110 zero stack
Wheels: Purple Hope Pro 2 (new 36pt ratchet), WTB Frequency i23 rim, Wheelsmith double butted spokes, brass nips
Tires: Conti Trail King 2.4 Protection front, Maxxis High Roller II TR rear
Brakes: Shimano SLX, 203mm front and 185mm rear rotors
Crank:e13 TRS+ 175mm, direct mount M-type 34t ring
Guide: e13 XCX
Stem: Easton Haven 55mm
Bars: RaceFace SixC 785mm uncut
Der: Shimano XT Shadow+
Cassette: Shimano XT 11-36 with 42t Wolf Tooth Giant Cog
Shifter: Shimano SLX
Post: Rockshox Reverb Stealth 125mm
Pedals: e13 LG1+
Saddle: Chromag Trailmaster LTD, red leather

The build on this thing was a cinch. Banshee's finish work on the frame was very good, and the hand-buffed aesthetic on the raw frame is awesome. Though the cable routing isn't the cleanest, I was grateful that the only internal routing was the stealth seatpost - definitely makes seasonal housing swaps and initial setup much, much easier.

The wheel build was fairly easy, though I must say that the weld quality on the WTB rims is a bit sloppy. the proprietary nipple drilling had me a bit confused at first, but after one failed lacing attempt I got it down and it actually makes a lot of structural sense.

Having set up e13 cranks before, I was curious to see how this new bearing preload system worked. In a word, brilliantly - it's super easy to set up and after torquing the huge bolt to spec, the cranks haven't loosened up a bit.

Ride Impressions

The first day was spent dialing in the shock, and I really didn't stray too far from Banshee's recommended base tune. Right from the get go I noticed that the climb switch on the shock makes a huge difference when grinding uphill, especially with the highly active KS Link. The bike is snappy at the pedals without any notable lag due to the bigger wheels, but it doesn't take too kindly to standing efforts (with the climb switch on, its much better). Climbing traction is pretty remarkable, and unlike the VPP, it doesn't feel like there's quite as much pedal feedback or leverage curve weirdness going on out back. My tire choice at the moment does not help the rolling speed in the least, but in the summer I'll be swapping to a less aggressive setup that should have this thing cruising up hills and on flats at a much better clip.

A good part of the reason I bought this bike was because everything about it seemed to scream that it wants to go downhill fast. Turns out that fast is an understatement. After messing with high speed compression a bit and getting the sag right (I started a bit low), the bike was a goddamn rocket ship. Cornering and high speed blasting is a revelation compared to my Nomad - the wheelbase is longer, the headtube is slacker, the bottom bracket is lower, and the feel is just generally more confident. The big wheels paired with the excellent suspension quality give the bike a "hold on and give 'er" feel, but the very stiff frame and supportive midstroke in both the fork and shock make for surgically precise handling in burly terrain. The result? A bike that loves going airborne and being thrown hard into corners, but can outrun a lot of bigger bikes when things get hairy.

The bike did remind me of its limitations once or twice, but only when pushed FAR beyond its intended riding genre with big drops or sphincter-puckering speed in ultra rough terrain. The aluminum frame doesn't mute some of the vibrations as well as my Nomad's carbon frame did, but the suspension performance of the Banshee is in another league. I need to look into some custom tuning for the fork as I am looking to get a little more high speed compression support out of it, but there are a couple of tricks that I've been told should address my complaints.

Conclusions

One of the biggest question marks was the oh-so-trendy 650b wheel size. Would it really perform up to the hype? It is a game changer? After my first few outings on the bike, I can answer both questions with a definitive "Nope". The slightly larger wheel performs exactly how a slightly larger wheel would be expected to perform. Maintains speed marginally better than a 26, changes direction marginally slower than a 26, offers marginally more traction than a 26, has to be worked through corners marginally more than a 26. Everything is a marginal difference that a lot of people wouldn't notice, and I can't conclusively say that I really would ever notice if I wasn't trying so hard to see the basis of all of the hype.

This bike out pedals my Nomad as I hoped it would, but where it really surprised me is with its downhill abilities. There is no question that it is a faster bike on the downhills, and only comes short of the Nomad when it comes to keeping full composure on huge hits. It's just more fun all over the mountain.
 
Last edited:

aenema

almost 100% positive
Sep 5, 2008
305
111
That was my stance on the 650b wheels as well. I rode a couple bikes and decided I didn't care enough to have wheel size be a deciding factor. If I found a frame I liked, I was fine with going 650 or 26. I ended up building my spitfire as a 26 inch, mainly because I like that little bit more nimble feel and shorter stays and partly because I could get really nice 26 inch wheels for so cheap now. Digging my Spitfire so far as well.
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
Thread drift..how's the 42T working out? I have the OneUp version with non-clutch XT drivetrain on a hardtail.

I've heard some bikes have shifting issues with clutch rear der and the 42T setup
 

wiscodh

Monkey
Jun 21, 2007
833
121
303
That was my stance on the 650b wheels as well. I rode a couple bikes and decided I didn't care enough to have wheel size be a deciding factor. If I found a frame I liked, I was fine with going 650 or 26. I ended up building my spitfire as a 26 inch, mainly because I like that little bit more nimble feel and shorter stays and partly because I could get really nice 26 inch wheels for so cheap now. Digging my Spitfire so far as well.
i have a 2.4 HR2 , 27.5 in the 26in drops........
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
@frorider the 42T is working out awesome, no shifting issues whatsoever. I'm actually really surprised that it shifts as well as it does, pretty sweet budget way to make a 34t front ring reasonable for the climbs on my local trails.

I could have gone with the shorter drops, but I don't find the back of the bike to feel long at all. It adds stability at speed, which I'm digging so far.
 

oliver newby

Chimp
Dec 13, 2014
1
0
How are you finding the size?
i'm 5 10 but looking to go for a Large as I'm liking the size of the TT and reach.
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,658
1,633
NorCack
You'll be fine on the large with a short stem. I'd think 30-50mm depending on your taste. For reference, I'm 6'1" on a large with 50mm stem/780mm bars, but I have little T-rex arms. My buddy who is 5'10" and normal proportions has been on my bike and said he'd ride it as is.
 

Dirk77

Monkey
Feb 15, 2014
233
48
I have a banshee rune v2 and i love it. I run 27.5" wheels and switch between dropouts. The 27.5 dropouts do ride more stable at speed but the 26" dropouts are so fun and easy to lift the front and corner faster. I have almost two seasons on it and have a blast every ride. The only reason to upgrade frames, that I'd have is to go carbon and save weight. Then i think nah,, this bike rails!
Love that raw, i bought my frame/shock/reverb very slightly used or it would be raw as well.. I'm into this build at $3100 ish.. Chris king hubs/xt brakes.
Just scored the gravity light cranks, brand new on eBay for 53bucks..
 
Last edited:

Kalroot

Chimp
Jan 19, 2016
3
0
i have a 2.4 HR2 , 27.5 in the 26in drops........
I was hoping you might give a little more info on how this is going. I'm thinking of doing the same thing as I like the numbers on the Spitfire except the chainstay length is too long for 275 wheels, me thinks. Do you find the suspension performance changes at all w/ the 275s in the 26 dropout? Do you feel it throws the geometry out of balance? If you have the 275 dropouts, which one do you run more?
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
I've made a number of component changes on my Spitfire, but the frame is the same as in my initial post and is still going strong. This is about to be my longest-owned trail bike ever, and I'm still loving it.

Most noticeable component swaps have been:
  • Upgrade to Hope Tech E4 brakes - they're awesomely reliable, easy to work on and kick SLX's ass in just about every way. My SLXs were easily the least reliable component I have purchased in the last few years, and they were a problem on both my hardtail and this bike.
  • Fork upgrade to 2016 Fox 36 RC2. Holy hell, I cannot believe how good forks have gotten. My XFusion never felt quite right, and I think I may have had a dud, as this one never felt as good as the one on my hardtail. The 36 is stiffer and SO controlled. I'm waiting for the crown to start creaking, but dear lord does it perform well.
  • Rear shock was upgraded to an Avalanche'd Fox Van RC with a ti coil. The Cane Creek never felt right despite my fiddling (always spiking), and I swapped to an Avy'd Fox CTD that I overheated too often. The Van RC is heavy, but finally can match the performance of the 36 up front.
 

wiscodh

Monkey
Jun 21, 2007
833
121
303
i ended up liking the 27.5 drops more. I ride a good amount of high speed crap so i believe short chain stays are over rated. In the grand scheme of things, 17.2 is pretty much medium length......
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Spitfire is a monster. I picked it up complete 2015 from Jenson for $2100. I absolutely love it so far. Large sizing is perfect at 6'1". It pedals really well and absolutely slays for a 5" bike. I also ride a Legend for my DH bike. I've had the Spitty out twice now and can't wait to ride it more, it's so much fun. Mine came in the 650beez so I'll leave it for now. Feels different, but nothing crazy earth shattering. I think I'd be fine with either wheel size. Added a Thomson dropper and XT brakes. Have Chromag carbon bars, stem and grips on the way.

 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,116
19,045
Canaderp
I nominate this thread as the official Ridemonkey Spitfire thread.

I would love to go ride mine right now. I've had this frame for 2-3 years now and it still gets me excited to go ride. No complaints here.

I've got 27.5 drop outs on the way, which should be interesting. I haven't ridden a 27.5 bike yet, only a 29er.

New fork, XT brakes were acquired since taking this picture and some blazing blue Spank rims are on the way (wish black wasn't sold out ugh). Which just reminds me, I need to find some tires. :wacko:


What shocks are yall running? I have the RP23 or whatever came with it. I always used the trail/descend switch since the beginning, but the last few months of riding I have just left it in the open position. I really haven't noticed a big difference.... Anyone else find that or just leave your shock on one setting?
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
I pretty much leave the shock in the 'open' setting. I'm running the Rockshox Monarch Plus RC3 Debonair that came on the bike. Feels pretty good to be honest. I was looking at replacing with a CCDB air before getting the bike, but after riding it, I'll stick with it for a while.
 

Kalroot

Chimp
Jan 19, 2016
3
0
i ended up liking the 27.5 drops more. I ride a good amount of high speed crap so i believe short chain stays are over rated. In the grand scheme of things, 17.2 is pretty much medium length......
But it sounds like there were no problems with using the 26 drops w/ the 275 wheels, correct? For example, tire clearance, suspension feeling off, changes in BB height, etc. It seems to me that there might be about 1-2mm change in BB height if my trigonometry is correct but I doubt that's noticeable. Was it? It sounds like you just preferred the increased stability of a longer chainstay, right? I think I might like the shorter chainstay b/c I love it on my Yelli Screamy and I probably would use the Spitfire a fair amount for rolling technical trail riding moreso than enduro-type riding. I'm being very detailed b/c 1) I'm super duper anal and 2) this might make or break my decision to buy the bike. Thanks so much for your help.

If others are interested, I asked Banshee about this and here is what they wrote. It seems like the kind of thing you have do say to cover your butt, but he also brings up some good points...

"I have heard of this as well. However it is not something that I feel comfortable personally recommending.
The reason people are abel to fit the bigger wheel/tire in the Spitfire is because of the amount of clearance that the frame is designed around. For mud clearance, grabbing rocks etc.

So in reality, this clearance is designed in at the amount it is because this is what our designer felt confident with for clearance and safety reasons. This is also the chain stay and wheelbase he felt was optimum for the frame design.

So obviously everyone has different preferences on chanteys etc. Which is why people experiment.

I don’t know the exact #’s, but it will effect the vertical measurements a bit compared to what is on the geo chart. The dropouts are all customized with axle position etc. for the specific wheel size, as its not just an extension on a horizontal axis, so you would sit higher with a 27.5” wheel in a 26” dropout then you would in the 27.5” dropout."
 

Metamorphic

Monkey
May 12, 2015
274
177
Cackalack
Double Barrel Inline on mine. Thing is ace, love it. It gets warm on prolonged descents but I don't notice a difference in damping. No complaints here. I've run this bike all sorts of ways, my favorite setup was 26" rear, 27.5" front. Turbo slack chunderwagon. Currently running tweeners front/rear and it's a good balance.


That is a fucking phenomenal deal.
Ya dude Jenson was blowing these out! My buddy got a Rune with Pike and GX for $2300. It's a good build, I got to lay eyes on it this weekend.
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
I think I might like the shorter chainstay b/c I love it on my Yelli Screamy and I probably would use the Spitfire a fair amount for rolling technical trail riding moreso than enduro-type riding. I'm being very detailed b/c 1) I'm super duper anal and 2) this might make or break my decision to buy the bike. Thanks so much for your help.
I have the 27.5 dropout, and I really appreciate the added clearance for a lot of the trails that I ride. On some of the steep n' deep stuff that I ride, there can be a lot of sizeable rocks and chunder flying around, and I don't want to mess with the clearance. I have never felt that a shorter chainstay is necessary, and I actually feel that the medium-length stays are partially what help keep this bike so stable in really chunky terrain (for a 5" bike).

If you're that worried about the difference in chainstay length, go ahead and give the 26" drops a go - I have seen multiple guys running 27.5 wheels in that configuration without issue, though clearance is certainly a bit tight and may not work with some extra high-volume tires. I think the 27.5 drops ride great, and it seems most other folks do too. This bike isn't the snappiest or most nimble as far as 5" travel bikes go, but it really does shine in its ability to absolutely smoke other 5" travel bikes on rough trails. It's a trail bike that you can ride on the edge of control with total confidence.
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
What shocks are yall running? I have the RP23 or whatever came with it. I always used the trail/descend switch since the beginning, but the last few months of riding I have just left it in the open position. I really haven't noticed a big difference.... Anyone else find that or just leave your shock on one setting?
As mentioned, I had a CCDB Air, then an Avalanche-tuned CTD, and now an Avalanche-tuned Fox Van RC with a ti coil. The suspension has improved with each shock swap, but I think the Van RC is the best for my riding style. The frame pedals fairly well so the coil shock doesn't sap too much energy. On the downhills there is no comparison - the CTD felt great once tuned by Avalanche, but it was overheating on some of the longer descents that I ride. The Van RC rides even better than the CTD in the rough, but doesn't overheat at all.

I think that I would likely run a Rockshox Monarch Plus if I were to go back to an air shock, but I have absolutely no intention of getting rid of the Van RC any time soon. It rips.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
After reading what everyone here has to say about this bike, I am none too pleased that I didn't buy it when they had my size in stock. FUCK
I actually procrastinated when they originally had them. Then they were gone. I have seen them pop back up though in various sizes, so just check back. I don't regret at all. It's a fantastic bike for the money and even more so for the price they had.

Side note: I'm a big dude and have literally punished my Legend for 3 years and it still rides awesome. I think the Spitfire will be a stout long term bike as well. I was kind of wanting to buy something carbon, but I'm glad where I ended up. I look forward to many rides and miles on this bike.
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
I actually procrastinated when they originally had them. Then they were gone. I have seen them pop back up though in various sizes, so just check back. I don't regret at all. It's a fantastic bike for the money and even more so for the price they had.

Side note: I'm a big dude and have literally punished my Legend for 3 years and it still rides awesome. I think the Spitfire will be a stout long term bike as well. I was kind of wanting to buy something carbon, but I'm glad where I ended up. I look forward to many rides and miles on this bike.
I would need a large, and literally 48 hours after I saw the sale and that they had them in my size, they were gone. I spent those 2 days thinking too much and should have just bought it. 2k for that frame and build is one of the best deals i have ever seen in my mountain biking life, if not the best
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Yea, I bought a large. I saw them mid week and next day they were gone. I was pissed at myself for hesitating but got extremely lucky and happened to go back and look and they had one large left back listed. Snapped it up and picked it up from Corona two days later. I was dragging my ass just because I wasn't 100% sure what I wanted, but after the initial defeat of missing the deal and seeing it pop up again, I realized I couldn't lose. People are asking more for used bikes. Add in the fact that after riding it, I love it, and it really is a no-brainer. I basically justified that if I really decided I wanted something else, I could sell it private party for what I paid for it easily and get my money back, or even more, so I just bought the damn thing.
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
Yea, I bought a large. I saw them mid week and next day they were gone. I was pissed at myself for hesitating but got extremely lucky and happened to go back and look and they had one large left back listed. Snapped it up and picked it up from Corona two days later. I was dragging my ass just because I wasn't 100% sure what I wanted, but after the initial defeat of missing the deal and seeing it pop up again, I realized I couldn't lose. People are asking more for used bikes. Add in the fact that after riding it, I love it, and it really is a no-brainer. I basically justified that if I really decided I wanted something else, I could sell it private party for what I paid for it easily and get my money back, or even more, so I just bought the damn thing.
sunova bitch. I am just hoping that some other incredible deal on a solid frame comes along. I dragged my feet cause I wanted to get a Suppressor frame. Which is the same price as the complete Spitfire went for, its a kick in the nuts. How did you see they had one left in stock?
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
It was a fluke. I had posted the link in a thread asking about the Phantom, people suggested the Spitfire. I happened to see them in Jenson. Looked like a good price. I had stopped by Jenson the day before after a ride and pedaled around a Rune real quick in a large, so I knew the sizing would be good. After they had sold out, I went back online a few days later though the link I posted in the thread just to torment myself and look at the specs and was giddy they had one left in large. Pulled the trigger right there and bought it. I also ride a large Legend.
 

RayB

Monkey
Jan 31, 2008
744
95
Seattle
Yea, I bought a large. I saw them mid week and next day they were gone. I was pissed at myself for hesitating but got extremely lucky and happened to go back and look and they had one large left back listed. Snapped it up and picked it up from Corona two days later. I was dragging my ass just because I wasn't 100% sure what I wanted, but after the initial defeat of missing the deal and seeing it pop up again, I realized I couldn't lose. People are asking more for used bikes. Add in the fact that after riding it, I love it, and it really is a no-brainer. I basically justified that if I really decided I wanted something else, I could sell it private party for what I paid for it easily and get my money back, or even more, so I just bought the damn thing.
This EXACT thing happened to me when I bought my current trail bike from the same place (JensonUSA). Saw it, said "Meh, looks like a great deal, lemme sleep on it...", then "Aww fuck, it's outta stock!", to "OH SHIT IT'S BACK. BUY BUY BUY."

And that's the story of how I ended up wtih a 29er lol.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
My advice is anything on Jenson, if it's that good of a deal, buy it. If you really decide you don't want it, you can return it if it's not used. Lock down your size, then sleep on it.
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,015
9,693
I have no idea where I am
My advice is anything on Jenson, if it's that good of a deal, buy it. If you really decide you don't want it, you can return it if it's not used. Lock down your size, then sleep on it.
No kidding, got a set of XT cranks for $100 with BB (retails for $270). They only had one in stock and I snatched it.





Can't wait for my new Spitty to get here as my current one is looser than an aging porn star.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Every time I ride this bike, I seriously love it more and more. Perfect setup for trails around here. I can't get over how well it seems to climb with how well it feels on the downs. Seems like there should be more of a trade off. Definitely not an XC, but oh so much fun. Perfect with the dropper and a 1x11 setup with the 32 and 42 rear.
 

RayB

Monkey
Jan 31, 2008
744
95
Seattle
As mentioned, I had a CCDB Air, then an Avalanche-tuned CTD, and now an Avalanche-tuned Fox Van RC with a ti coil. The suspension has improved with each shock swap, but I think the Van RC is the best for my riding style. The frame pedals fairly well so the coil shock doesn't sap too much energy. On the downhills there is no comparison - the CTD felt great once tuned by Avalanche, but it was overheating on some of the longer descents that I ride. The Van RC rides even better than the CTD in the rough, but doesn't overheat at all.

I think that I would likely run a Rockshox Monarch Plus if I were to go back to an air shock, but I have absolutely no intention of getting rid of the Van RC any time soon. It rips.
Yo, did we bump into you this morning at Tokul West? Me and @MrBaker87 were out there spinning laps.
 

MrBaker87

Monkey
Mar 30, 2014
156
113
neverlandranch
Sweet. We should all cruise together sometime. We can talk about banshees, how much cc shocks suck and the pros of wearing slippers to the dirt party. I'll pm you my phone number.