[DMdh]

I dont see the road guys use a motor to go faster, or in football using a bigger soccer goal to see more goals.
I mean, why dont just improve what we have to make the sport grow instead of changing it every few years just to "go faster" (sell more bikes..).
if you are slow on a 26, you will be the same slow in comparison with the other riders when you start using 27.5..

 

[Sandwich]

yeah man, **** disk brakes, and **** 8" of suspension travel. It just makes us go faster, which isn't any fun. We need to make things better, like by making moar gearz or having DW patent everything.

I mean, if you're slow on an 8" travel carbon fiber demo 8, then you're going to be slow on a fixed gear hipster bike compared to other riders on fixed gear hipster bikes.

duh.

 

[bdamschen]

I dont see the road guys use a motor to go faster, or in football using a bigger soccer goal to see more goals.
I mean, why dont just improve what we have to make the sport grow instead of changing it every few years just to "go faster" (sell more bikes..).
if you are slow on a 26, you will be the same slow in comparison with the other riders when you start using 27.5..

All true... unless you're like 6'8"... then you were stoked when 29ers came out.

 

[DMdh]

yeah man, **** disk brakes, and **** 8" of suspension travel. It just makes us go faster, which isn't any fun. We need to make things better, like by making moar gearz or having DW patent everything.

I mean, if you're slow on an 8" travel carbon fiber demo 8, then you're going to be slow on a fixed gear hipster bike compared to other riders on fixed gear hipster bikes.

duh.

You can go fast enough on a 26". If you dont think so, maybe you should stop riding bikes and start racing mx or rallycar...
And, what I meant was that it would be a lot better if the industry focused on making lighter stronger AND better QUALITY bikes and parts; instead of changing our sport standard every 8 years...

 

[Sandwich]

And, what I meant was that it would be a lot better if the industry focused on making lighter stronger AND better QUALITY bikes and parts; instead of changing our sport standard every 8 years...

ah yes, tell that to DW, and Giant, and Trek, and Specialized, and Cane Creek, and SRAM, and Shimano.

Nobody likes their 10 speed setups, or their 1.5" standard head tubes, or their ISCG05 standards, or their QR15, or their 150mm rear ends, or their 142mm rear ends, or...

stop innovating, start dying.

 

[kickstand]

There's also a reason trophy trucks don't run 50 or 60 inch tires as well.

yeah this is true, but they used to run 31's, and then 35's, and then 37's, and now 40's.

Oh, and why? Well two of the reasons is the exact same reasons being stated in this thread, the packaging and suspension design, and the tire manufacturers that made good tires for baja/trophy truck races, weren't making tires that size yet.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see trophy trucks go to bigger tires again in the next few years.

It won't surprise me to see these bigger tires find their way into DH as well....though I have ridden 3 different 29'ers now so far and none of the 3 felt good at all. I really wanted to build up a SS 29'er for XC/gravel road riding, but i just can't get comfortable on one yet.

 

[Udi]

Just look at the athertons and how they updated the outdated geometry of the fury.Geometry-wise current stock frames are as simliar as it can get. Same for damping and rearend kinematiks. There is no frame that doesn't work in this respect. If you set up the shock right it will work. Same goes for forks and other components, the posibilites are endless.

Geometry /= suspension kinematics.
There are plenty of parameters that are not modifiable without changing to different design or manufacturer.

For example the demo 8 will always be more linear and have different bump absorption characteristics to a v10, even though both are race bikes used at the top end of the sport. One is significantly more progressive, one has significantly more rear travel, and the other is significantly lower and has much shorter chainstays.

You're delusional if you think that WC bikes are "as similar as they can get". Ride a high and low singlepivot with identical geometry + setup and tell me they perform identically in bermed corners and square edged bumps.

So you are saying Aaron Gwin isn't fast because he is Aaron Gwin but because he is on Trek? And that he wouldn't be as fast if he would be on a Demo?

getting down the hill the fastest is indeed a combination of bike and body, and while the rider is a much bigger part of the equation, you'd be foolish to think the bike was not significant enough to make a difference.

Reading comprehension 101.

I bet I'm not the first person who has wondered how Sam Hill's performance would change if he were on a different bike, and I'll also bet that the answer is different to "not at all".

The same scenario would apply to Gwin - changing to Specialized would mean a change in suspension + braking performance as well as frame geometry. Without arguing which is better, I bet back-to-back tests would easily show different times.

 

[tabletop84]

no, the differences are negligible. If Sam Hill or some other rider would want a lower bb or shorter/longer chainstays he would get them. Wasn't the demo developed with Hills help!?

Also damping>kinematiks -> the suspension-setup is way more important on how fast a bike is on a specific track.

 

[gemini2k]

All true... unless you're like 6'8"... then you were stoked when 29ers came out.

No, we're really not. Chainstay's are already long enough. Bike have had over a decade of suspension and geometry optimization for 26" wheels. Don't tell me that "ZOMFG 1 inch makes a huge difference on the wheelz!" Then turn around and tell me all of the accommodation that have to be made for that wheel size DON'T make a huge difference.

 

[Huck Banzai]

All true... unless you're like 6'8"... then you were stoked when 29ers came out.

I'm 6'8", not even slightly stoked.

 

[toodles]

You know who's behind this big wheel craze? Hub manufacturers. They want to be able to put cheaper bearings in without us noticing. And we won't notice because for any given distance the wheel will turn less
and we'll think the bearings are lasting longer. Open your eyes - it's a conspiracy people!

 

[Sandwich]

You know who's behind this big wheel craze? Hub manufacturers. They want to be able to put cheaper bearings in without us noticing. And we won't notice because for any given distance the wheel will turn less
and we'll think the bearings are lasting longer. Open your eyes - it's a conspiracy people!

and rim strip manufacturers. moar rimz=moar stripz

 

[tabletop84]

Bigger wheels would certaintly help with that flex: http://www.pinkbike.com/video/276242/

 

[Sandwich]

What? Where he lands sideways and the bike almost immediately rights itself showing no signs of wheel flex? or was there another part you want to try and use to convince yourself that you're right. I see you post on pinkbike all the time, and every effing post is about how big wheels stole your lunch.

Is it that hard for you to think that a different wheel diameter may offer some degree of mechanical advantage?

 

[tabletop84]

I'm a troll but bored and commited. I mean somebody must step into the way of the hypemachine and the gullible shut-up-and-take-my-money-consumers.

 

[Sandwich]

I'm a troll but bored and commited. I mean somebody must step into the way of the hypemachine and the gullible shut-up-and-take-my-money-consumers.

hahaha, i'm going to go unbunch my panties

 

[boogenman]

THis just in!!! Gwin will be riding 24's in Norway this weekend because there is no advantage with teh 26" wheelz. Fukk da rocks cuz jesus will get hims down fastest.






















and bacon

 

[sbabuser]

Are you kidding? That's the easiest scientific test possible, and much easier than quantifying "100% antisquat" for anything besides one single point at one single time.

Take two bikes of similar/same design. Which one is fastest to the bottom? Which one is fastest through different sections? Same rider, same course. No need to discuss "feel" or anything like that. Just one dude (or rather, several riders participating in the test) then time them top to bottom with splits.

Saying "everybody will be faster than you" is hyperbole, but if big wheels catch on, the highest tech will be applied there, and if it represents an advantage, everybody will switch (and the playing field will be leveled, again). If it doesn't, then who cares? Again, I'm personally ambivalent because if everybody switches, then there's no real advantage.

Just like what happened with wider handlebars.

 

[sbabuser]

I really wanted to build up a SS 29'er for XC/gravel road riding, but i just can't get comfortable on one yet.

You have a dedicated bike for gravel road riding? Holy quiver overload, Batman!

 

[-BB-]

What? Where he lands sideways and the bike almost immediately rights itself showing no signs of wheel flex? or was there another part you want to try and use to convince yourself that you're right. I see you post on pinkbike all the time, and every effing post is about how big wheels stole your lunch.

Is it that hard for you to think that a different wheel diameter may offer some degree of mechanical advantage?

The only things I hate about that vid are:
1) He is shredding that trail better than I have ever been able to, or ever WILL be able to.
2) He is destroying the trail as he does so. Going hard into the berms and sending roost everywhere. No Bueno. I put a lot of time and energy into that trail. Don't want some guy from out of town getting paid to destroy it just to make a cool promo vid.

 

[tabletop84]

hahaha, i'm going to go unbunch my panties

what does that mean?

 

[wiscodh]

what does that mean?

he has a thing for womens undergarments. giddyup.

 

[tabletop84]

 

[kickstand]

You have a dedicated bike for gravel road riding? Holy quiver overload, Batman!

No, I have my DH bike, and a FS trail bike, and I wanted to add a hardtail that would be used for XC/trails, and the occasional "road ride" since I don't do pavement road riding for conditioning because drivers around here think bikes earn extra points over deer.

 

[norbar]

I love you guys. SRAM spoon feeds you more gears year by year and you eat it up, because you NEED it and it solves every problem EVAR OMG. Take the same haggard old frame but make it CARBONZ TEH SHIMZ and it's "shut up and take my money"

Really? Because I'm pretty sure I commented quite a few times if a carbon frame isn't any lighter I'm not really buying it and that the new demo rides the same acording to a few semi pro friends who went and tested them. Do your research before you call me out.

Also yes I'm up for 11 gears because I don't want to use a front chain guide and a 10 gear range is too little for me. I'm not the part of "I need a 63deg trailbike because my climbs are less steep than Snooki's learning curve" group so I actually need some range.


As for XC racing - 29ers are the future here. You don't need an intermediate size. Better rolling gives you much more than super cornering. Most XC racing bikes feel really ****ty in turns anyway and I doubt they will start using trail geometry on them soon.

 

[William42]

you know, i think most of you are missing the overall point here. This is what gets me really ticked off: How dare intense show a preproduction test bike off to the public?! how dare they try anything other then the status quo? what the hell gives them the right to post this stuff on a public forum?

 

[norbar]

you know, i think most of you are missing the overall point here. This is what gets me really ticked off: How dare intense show a preproduction test bike off to the public?! how dare they try anything other then the status quo? what the hell gives them the right to post this stuff on a public forum?

No one claims they can't show new stuff but also don't claim we shouldn't be allowed to talk about it.

 

[Kanye West]

yeah this is true, but they used to run 31's, and then 35's, and then 37's, and now 40's.

Oh, and why? Well two of the reasons is the exact same reasons being stated in this thread, the packaging and suspension design, and the tire manufacturers that made good tires for baja/trophy truck races, weren't making tires that size yet.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see trophy trucks go to bigger tires again in the next few years.

An interesting point related to this:

Due to the increasing tire diameter on Baja vehicles, the whoops along that route have become WAY deeper. The motos can barely ride the same route now. The suspension setup they run is so extremely polarized towards these whoops that they're just silly on anything else.

With the terrain being changed by the wheel diameter, the suspension travel and dynamics on the trophy trucks will have to change, and will probably be the limiting factor for future wheel size increases in that arena.

 

[kickstand]

An interesting point related to this:

Due to the increasing tire diameter on Baja vehicles, the whoops along that route have become WAY deeper. The motos can barely ride the same route now. The suspension setup they run is so extremely polarized towards these whoops that they're just silly on anything else.

With the terrain being changed by the wheel diameter, the suspension travel and dynamics on the trophy trucks will have to change, and will probably be the limiting factor for future wheel size increases in that arena.

chicken, egg....big whoops, big tires, which came first? wait, are you saying braking bumps on dh tracks are going to swallow my 26" wheels now? the sky is falling!!!!

Trophy trucks are rad, my brother and a few friends have been doing a lot of racing out there, my brother has pitted/chase trucked for the last few years at baja, can't remember which team. I think it's collins motorsports.

Same thing happened with jeeps and rock buggies along the way, 33's used to be big, 35's were huge, now a mild trail rig is running 35-37" tires and 39's aren't even anything special.

The difference is that in motorsports its about burlier parts and higher horsepower motors....in bikes its about the actual feel of a bike under your average dude ranging in size from 5-8 to 6-2 (typically). Imagine my friend who rides an XS demo and goes about 5-1 trying to ride a 29'er down hills hahahaha