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Introducing the Assometer

surfinguru

surfinguru

Turbo Monkey
Oct 24, 2003
1,269
0
Santa Cruz (the land of a thousand worthless tree
Pulled this out from the RoadBikeReview dot com newsletter I got today about the Interbike coverage....


---Specialized hosted a scientific demonstration of how
sitting on a bike seat can reduce a guy's penile blood
flow. The company's Body Geometry saddles score well in
a landmark test method that's just been developed in
Germany. But key to making any saddle work better is to
sit on its wide rear section to keep weight supported
on sit bones rather than the sensitive material between
them. So, how do you know the width of your sit bones
so you can find a suitably wide saddle? Specialized is
providing its dealers with an apparatus that allows
this critical distance to be measured. It's called an
Assometer.

:nope: :evil:
 
Ciaran

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,841
18
So Cal
There's a really good joke in there some where. I'm just not clever enought to pull it out. Makes me really want to go to my local LBS and ask them if they have an assometer because I need to be measured. :p
 
J

JRB

Guest
surfinguru said:
Specialized is
providing its dealers with an apparatus that allows
this critical distance to be measured. It's called an
Assometer.

:nope: :evil:
Click to expand...

Don't they mean an "assparatus"??? :stosh: (sorry, I thought it so I said it)
 
golgiaparatus

golgiaparatus

Out of my element
Aug 30, 2002
7,340
41
Deep in the Jungles of Oklahoma
:think: does the assometer touch the ass of the person being assometered?
If so some poor schmoe bike shop guy is gonna get lawsuitified by some rich chick... I can see it now, "he touched my private parts with that assometer gizmo and I felt violated... then he said I needed an extra large seat

:mumble:
 
DVNT

DVNT

Turbo Monkey
Jul 16, 2004
1,844
0
They should make a portable version of it.

That way when your GF asks you if her jeans make her butt look to big you got scientific proof.
 
Ciaran

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,841
18
So Cal
Jesus said:
LBS IS NOT A WORD!!!!!!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Cause I love pay backs! :thumb:
Click to expand...

BWAHAHAHAHA! Ack! I better get to the hospital so I can get my BURN taken care of. Hah! Nice one. :thumb:
 
DVNT

DVNT

Turbo Monkey
Jul 16, 2004
1,844
0
Maybe we could get DHG to post the pic of her in the Purple Grimace shorts so we can measure it....


just a thought.....
 
Damn True

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Ok, here's the thing.
In creating the new generation of BG saddles we were testing pressure on riders sit bones as a way to sort of quantify relative comfort. What we discovered is that people have different width sit bones. Not earth shattering, you'd assume that'd be the case. But what surprised us was that the width is in no way related to a persons height, weight, build etc. We have 140lb guys with very wide sit bones, and 200lb guys with very narrow bones.
So getting someone on a proper saddle become a two part proposition.
a) Protect them from penile bloodflow restriction. Which we already had covered.
b) Make the saddle width match that of the riders sit bones.

So we build saddles in three widths. 130mm, 143mm, and 155mm.
Photos below:
Same rider on three different width saddles. Note the difference in pressure between the narrowest and widest saddle.

The Body Geometry Saddle Fit tool (Assometer)
A piece of memory foam mounted on a card. The customer sits on the foam in a such a way as to have his/her weight on their sit bones leaving an indentation in the foam. The Technician will take a measurement of the distance between the deepest points in the foam. Then turn the card over.

On the back of the card is a graph that correlates sit bone width, riding position and saddle size.

The three different width saddles.
 
DVNT

DVNT

Turbo Monkey
Jul 16, 2004
1,844
0
When will they be out? I need a new saddle for my XC'er.

Plus I want to be in a shop when they start measuring people.

It'll be funny to hear: "I want the small one!" Uh sorry mam, but by my measurements your ass is way too big for that saddle. You're better off with the super size. :blah:
 
B

bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
Damn True said:
A piece of memory foam mounted on a card. The customer sits on the foam in a such a way as to have his/her weight on their sit bones leaving an indentation in the foam.
Click to expand...
Please tell me this thing is washable or disposable...
 
BigMike

BigMike

BrokenbikeMike
Jul 29, 2003
8,931
0
Montgomery county MD
All jokes aside, this seems like a really good idea. There have been a lot of problems with saddles and restricted bloodflow. I like it!

Plus, when I go back to work at a shop, I get to look at girls hineys :)
 
J

JRB

Guest
DVNT said:
Maybe we could get DHG to post the pic of her in the Purple Grimace shorts so we can measure it....


just a thought.....
Click to expand...
Dude - it's not a yard stick.
 
Skookum

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Damn True said:
If nobody minds I'll put up some photos of it and explain how it works.

Pretty profound stuff in terms of ensuring comfort in addition to protecting the rider from penile bloodflow restriction.
Click to expand...
i honestly and still laughingly love the assometer. i honestly will be using it, because it makes sense.:)
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,659
7,931
Damn True said:
I figured it would be easier to refer to them as such rather than as ischial tuberosities.
BTW, the arteries restricted by a traditional saddle are called the internal pudenal arteries.
Click to expand...
how did specialized come up with this? the internal pudendals look to be tucked up pretty well on the medial side of each ischium in my anatomy atlas...

(wow, i never thought that browsing ridemonkey would be helpful in schoolwork :D -- we're actually studying the pelvis right now heh)
 
Skookum

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Toshi said:
how did specialized come up with this? the internal pudendals look to be tucked up pretty well on the medial side of each ischium in my anatomy atlas...

(wow, i never thought that browsing ridemonkey would be helpful in schoolwork :D -- we're actually studying the pelvis right now heh)
Click to expand...
dum it down for me Toshi, are saying this is too good to be true. i've noticed softer seats tend to kill the blood flow vs. a firmer one. What say you soon to be Dr. Toshi.....
 
Damn True

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Toshi said:
how did specialized come up with this? the internal pudendals look to be tucked up pretty well on the medial side of each ischium in my anatomy atlas...

(wow, i never thought that browsing ridemonkey would be helpful in schoolwork :D -- we're actually studying the pelvis right now heh)
Click to expand...
That is the basis for BG saddles from the begining.
What happens is this: You sit on a normal saddle, or even one with a groove in it if improperly shaped, and the dome of the saddle, combined with the bulk of your chamois push up on the soft tissue between the ischium compressing the pudenals.
Some saddles cut off as much as 94% of penile bloodflow in less than 60sec of peddaling.
Anything greater than a 50% loss of flow puts the rider at significant risk of soft tissue damage.

BTW, "comfort" and the sensation of numbness in the area have absolutely nothing to do with bloodflow. Numbness or discomfort is caused by nerve compression around the sit bones.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,659
7,931
well, i'm saying that i don't like true stating conclusively that the internal pudendals are the culprits without presenting evidence backing up the claim. it may well be true as the internal pudenal artery is listed in my atlas with this after its name: "(dorsal artery of the penis)" and it runs in that region. there are plenty o' soft bits down there that could be responsible for tinglin' in the ol' wang after riding tho...
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,659
7,931
Damn True said:
Some saddles cut off as much as 94% of penile bloodflow in less than 60sec of peddaling.
Anything greater than a 50% loss of flow puts the rider at significant risk of soft tissue damage.
Click to expand...
this is what i'm asking about, how did specialized get this figure? how did they measure penile bloodflow, have the dude ride an all-plastic bicycle in a giant fMRI machine? :D
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,659
7,931
btw i have no doubts of the virtue of having multiple seat widths. i've noticed it myself, as you guys also surely have, that my backside only agrees with certain models of saddles. well, maybe you've noticed this about your backside, not mine, but close enough heh. change the arch of it (no arch for me!) or width and everything goes to pot.
 
Damn True

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Toshi said:
this is what i'm asking about, how did specialized get this figure? how did they measure penile bloodflow, have the dude ride an all-plastic bicycle in a giant fMRI machine? :D
Click to expand...
Dr. Frank Sommer at the University of Cologne in Germany adapted an O2 Saturation measurement machine for attachment to the male genetalia.

There is a ring that is glued to the end of the subjects penis. A cap is placed over the ring and filled with a fluid. The machine detects O2 Saturation in the blood vessels of the penis. Lower O2 sat. + lower bloodflow.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,659
7,931
thanks for the link, true. ooh, so here is the famed assometer or "saddle fit gauge" (boo):



is this "april 2003" study by dr. frank sommer published anywhere? can non-specialized types read it? http://tinyurl.com/46gdb <-- google is not very helpful, i restricted results to .edu to weed out the ad copy
 
Damn True

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Toshi said:
thanks for the link, true. ooh, so here is the famed assometer or "saddle fit gauge" (boo):



is this "april 2003" study by dr. frank sommer published anywhere? can non-specialized types read it? http://tinyurl.com/46gdb <-- google is not very helpful, i restricted results to .edu to weed out the ad copy
Click to expand...
Yup. This is his preliminary study.
http://www.veloplus.ch/pdf/fachinformation/bicyclesaddleandpenis200447164434.pdf

Some of the results of the most recent testing are here. http://www.specialized.com/sbcBgSaddles.jsp?a=b
The rest will be published soon.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,659
7,931
Damn True said:
Yup. This is his preliminary study.
http://www.veloplus.ch/pdf/fachinformation/bicyclesaddleandpenis200447164434.pdf

Some of the results of the most recent testing are here. http://www.specialized.com/sbcBgSaddles.jsp?a=b
The rest will be published soon.
Click to expand...
that second link doesn't work, the site complains of a cookie problem and redirects to a rather generic body geometry page. thanks for the link to the study itself, that was exactly what i was looking for. it's interesting to note that:

a) a specialized body geometry saddle was part of the study (as presented in the first link)
b) the other saddles tested were a narrow selle san marco model with a gel insert in the nose, a brooks leather saddle, and a wide women's model with no nose (it looks like a stool seat, see the study)
c) the specialized saddle did not do well: the brooks beat it narrowly and the funny-looking women's one was the best by far
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,659
7,931
Damn True said:
hmm
Try going to www.specialized.com click on "tech" then "equipment" then "body geometry saddles"

like I said, that was the preliminary study, mainly I wanted you to see the testing equipment, the recent study with the current generation of saddles is rather amazing.
Click to expand...
oh. i thought there was a better page at the end of the no-cookie rainbow :D . i don't see anything resembling a controlled study on that page. the most "convincing" data was this:

32 Men and women were given Sport saddles and 12 were given Comfort saddles on day three and four then contacted at the conclusion of the ride. The average rider used the products for about 500km.

[...]

1. Sport Saddle: 87% relief of numbness, 100% relief of perineal pain.

2. Comfort Saddle: 100% relief of all symptoms in all riders. Symptoms included: numbness, pain and urinary difficulty.
Click to expand...
these data points are not very useful on their own. how many of these riders previously experienced numbness? (i'm guessing 8, given that 7/8 is roughly 87%.) would they have done better with a brooks or one of those barstool-looking saddles?
 
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