[Changleen]

Were gettin our ass's handed to us? You must be jokin!

You're failing to meet even the most modest of your already scaled-back objectives. All you've done succesfully is captured Saddam and killed a few Iraqis. You've managed to turn a secular dictatorship into a the beginning of a theocratic 'democracy'.

Yeah, nice going.

 

[Changleen]

Multiple locations, easier to hide stuff, harder to find stuff. Especially in a country where the people aren't very likely to work as agents for the US.

Don't worry, God will tell GW where to strike.

 

[blue]

Medium range ballistic missles+nuclear warheads=no invasion, however, that combination will put Israel basically to the point where if they get stung by a mosquito, Persia gets wiped out.

Think of the fun nuclear winds blowing over Iraq!

Does teh wind even blow that way?

Anyway, it's basic cold war International Politics, deterrence by intimidation, but the addition of Israel to the scenario sort of throws a monkey wrench into the whole equation...

 

[sanjuro]

Multiple locations, easier to hide stuff, harder to find stuff. Especially in a country where the people aren't very likely to work as agents for the US.

 

[Transcend]

Medium range ballistic missles+nuclear warheads=no invasion, however, that combination will put Israel basically to the point where if they get stung by a mosquito, Persia gets wiped out.

Think of the fun nuclear winds blowing over Iraq!

Does teh wind even blow that way?

Anyway, it's basic cold war International Politics, deterrence by intimidation, but the addition of Israel to the scenario sort of throws a monkey wrench into the whole equation...

The problem is, it is MUCH more then cold war politics...there are now multiple actors, and a few may not be rational actors. This skews things quite a bit.

 

[blue]

The problem is, it is MUCH more then cold war politics...there are now multiple actors, and a few may not be rational actors. This skews things quite a bit.

Thats what I was trying to imply with the Israel thing...far more people with nukes. However, I don't think the Iranian administration is entirely irrational. They've seen what's happened to Iraq, and if the Americans can ever solidify their stance their, Iran is likely to be next on the chopping block. Nuclear weapons would nearly eliminate the possibility of American attack, and this is the perfect time to develop them with the Iraq War, and then the Sharon stroke deallio. I highly doubt they'd ever use them unless they were invaded.

 

[The Amish]

They might not be dumb enough to use them, but I doubt that they'd have a problem selling them to someone who would

 

[Inclag]

Kerry was the biggest flip-flopper Ive ever seen in my life. You don't get photographed throwing your war medals over the whitehouse fence and then try to play war hero to win votes. Im sorry, but that doesnt work.
There's other stuff thats debatable about that maybe he was mislead with intel so he voted for the war, etc... Im not even talking about that.

Wait, so a person can't be a war hero if afterwards they were against a war?

 

[Changleen]

Wow, Amish. You came this close: . to making a post with no grammatical errors. Well done!

 

[BurlyShirley]

Wait, so a person can't be a war hero if afterwards they were against a war?

You cant act as if you were proud of your service if you throw your medals away in protest.

 

[Inclag]

Im delusional? You want to give nukes to people who blow **** up AND kill other people over cartoons. As I said before dumbest monkey ever! Get help!

And our faithful leader who has more nukes then you've had heart beats in your life says he speaks to God directly and also talks about such crazy things as human-animal hybrids.

 

[Changleen]

You cant act as if you were proud of your service if you throw your medals away in protest.

Why not? The medals represent the authoriser of the war, not your own actions.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Why not?

Are you stupid?

That was rhetorical by the way.

 

[Inclag]

You cant act as if you were proud of your service if you throw your medals away in protest.

Yes you can.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Why not? The medals represent the authoriser of the war, not your own actions.

uh...actually, many of them do represent your own actions.

 

[Changleen]

Are you stupid?

That was rhetorical by the way.

Yeah I know it's tough for your impaired thinky to do actual questions.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Yes you can.

If you people are stupid enough to buy it, sure I guess you can, apparently.

 

[Changleen]

uh...actually, many of them do represent your own actions.

Particular actions which the authoriser feels worthy of praise. You may feel differently.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I wish I had a smilie of me stabbing myself in the eye with my index finger right now.

 

[Changleen]

If you people are stupid enough to buy it, sure I guess you can, apparently.

Kerry may or may not have done it for the right reasons, but you're still wrong.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Particular actions which the authoriser feels worthy of praise. You may feel differently.

They are still your actions. You make no sense as usual. If you are against the war, how can you be proud of your accomplishments or participation in it?

 

[Changleen]

I wish I had a smilie of me stabbing myself in the eye with my index finger right now.

Just do it for real.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Just do it for real.

I am... the stupidity in this thread is nauseating.

 

[Changleen]

They are still your actions. You make no sense as usual. If you are against the war, how can you be proud of your accomplishments or participation in it?

You seriously have no imagination do you? That's why Mt. Shirley will never be a commercial success.

 

[Inclag]

If you people are stupid enough to buy it, sure I guess you can, apparently.

OK, I'll try to speak in simple terms for you. Lets say you work for corporation X. You work your but off do an admiral job, but you don't like said corporation, the management, and what they stand for. So, upon leaving this company, you voice your displeasure and moral objectives with how they oprate and what they do.

 

[BurlyShirley]

You seriously have no imagination do you? That's why Mt. Shirley will never be a commercial success.

Imagination? No. Not really.

But think about it. If you were an abortion doctor, but against abortions, would you be proud that you aborted most last month?

 

[BurlyShirley]

OK, I'll try to speak in simple terms for you. Lets say you work for corporation X. You work your but off do an admiral job, but you don't like said corporation, the management, and what they stand for. So, upon leaving this company, you voice your displeasure and moral objectives with how they oprate and what they do.

Im not sure what an "admiral" job is in this context, but he claims to be proud of his time in the military, not that he doesnt like "said corporation".

 

[Inclag]

Imagination? No. Not really.

But think about it. If you were an abortion doctor, but against abortions, would you be proud that you aborted most last month?

^
Very bad analogy.


Unless....

...Well lets say this doctor started as kid that had really no idea what abortion was or like and had no experience or moral grounds to initially have any objectives to it. Then after going through with being an abortion doctor, he realizes he is against it and those who do it, but he has to stick it out for a couple more years.


Then maybe we're getting there.

 

[Inclag]

Im not sure what an "admiral" job is in this context, but he claims to be proud of his time in the military, not that he doesnt like "said corporation".

Wouldn't you be proud of yourself if you did a job to the best of your ability?

 

[BurlyShirley]

^
Very bad analogy.


Unless....

...Well lets say this doctor started as kid that had really no idea what abortion was or like and had no experience or moral grounds to initially have any objectives to it. Then after going through with being an abortion doctor, he realizes he is against it and those who do it, but he has to stick it out for a couple more years.


Then maybe we're getting there.

Ok, fine, but afterwards would he say he was proud of all the babies he aborted?
Only if he was a crooked politician.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Wouldn't you be proud of yourself if you did a job to the best of your ability?

Yes, but I think the word you're looking for is "admirable." Good try though.

 

[The Amish]

Wow, Amish. You came this close: . to making a post with no grammatical errors. Well done!

Man I was tryin so hard too. What did I forget?

 

[Inclag]

Ok, fine, but afterwards would he say he was proud of all the babies he aborted?
Only if he was a crooked politician.

No. But you could say that you were proud of doing the job that was required and did it very well.

 

[BurlyShirley]

No. But you could say that you were proud of doing the job that was required and did it very well.

Fine, but thats not what he said. Figure out your argument before you start it next time.

 

[The Amish]

If people did that it wouldnt be the political forum

 

[Changleen]

Man I was tryin so hard too. What did I forget?

Just the full stop.

 

[valve bouncer]

If people did that it wouldnt be the political forum

Hehehe...true dat.

 

[ohio]

They are still your actions. You make no sense as usual. If you are against the war, how can you be proud of your accomplishments or participation in it?

I don't remember him saying he was proud of the actions. I remember him saying that he understands war, battle, and conflict because he was actually involved in one.

 

[The Amish]

And yet the country still decided to leave the war to George.

 

[surfinguru]

My god, this thread went into the crapper pretty quick. It started off with some fairly insightful debate. The one thing I didn't see anyone address is the responsibility of the rest of the world to do something about this Ahmadinejad guy. I know someone will chime in here and challenge my next comment or two, but that's what debate is about.

This guy's rhetoric is unbelievably inflammatory at best. He's clearly stated his intentions. Whether they are simply political boasting or not, you have to make preparations in relation to what is actually happening. He wants the bomb and is doing everything in his power to obtain it. Now let's extrapolate a little shall we? Suppose they do develop a deployable nuke and use it? Or maybe sell it to some terrorist group that sets it off in the EU, US or any other Western Ally state. Then what? The whole middle east turns into a glass parking lot and we all suffer the political and ecological fallout as a result.

F*ck that. The US is the super power of the world, accept it. Does it give us the right to use that power unscrupously? Absolutley not...but we have an obligation to keep things in check. This head in the sand, kumbia, let's drum in a circle mentality that the libs exibit needs to stop tying the hands of the most powerful armys in the world and let the soldiers on the ground do their f*cking job. Why do you think NK and Iran are beating their chests so hard right now? Because of the pussy libs I just mentioned. If the Western Allies were allowed to do their job in Iraq like they are trained to do, the crap in Iraq would have been over by now and I seriously doubt Ahmadinejad would be flapping his fat mouth like he is.

Damn, I haven't even touched the genocidal side of this either...gah, we're all f*cked by placating the minority instead of telling them to piss of...I'm going to ride my bike while I still can. :mumble: