Iranian Clerics: It's OK to use Nukes
- Thread starter Changleen
- Start date
DRB said:
Changleen said:
No Doofus he was pissed at the US/NATO forces in Saudi Arabia (the Holy land to muslims) One of the main demands (at the time) of his organisation was for them to leave the holy land. They were still based in Saudi post gulf war 1 and this was what originaly had him so incensed.
His aims and goals have changed since then however.
No one on here is blatently claiming they're whiter than white, bro. I have just as much problem with their fvcktardedness as I do with the Israeli attitude. Both are as bad as each other, but one side has killed more, and it happens to be the one that claims the moral high ground AND better has the ability to do something about the situation. I find that quite disgusting.LordOpie said:
That is true but it's not that simple. He was 'educated' and was acting on behalf of the beliefs of those who saw western values and imperialism as the core problem. He is a large hypocrite if the Saudi thing was his sole motivation since it was his very family and him himself who encouraged and enabled their participation.DaveW said:
Yeah but only to deal to Sadam who he hates. He didn't want infidel troops stationed in the holy land for long... "Just do the job and go" was what he wanted in that regard.
So Transcend was wrong about his assertion that, and I quoteDaveW said:
Since the US forces were in Saudi Arabia at the behest of the government and basically left when asked, the whole invasion thing doesn't stand up to scruitny.Transcend said:
No he didn't want them there at all. He wanted to bring his clan from Afghanistan to "liberate Kuwait" and petitioned both the Saudis and the Kuwaitis to do so. Knowing that Osama's method at BEST was going to take years and years to pry Saddam out of Kuwait, the Kuwaitis not only said no they said hell no. And the Saudi government realized very quickly that it was a front for bringing an armed insurrection into Saudi Arabia to overthrow the government. So they told him to go pound sand. So his feelings were hurt as this was done in a fairly public manner in the region and his plans were foiled, so after that it became a big fat hissy fit.DaveW said:
Bin Laden is doing his best to create a platform where he had none, and we seem to be helping him to do so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IsraelMikeD said:
Even according to that article, Israel is largely a secular state; only 9% of the population considers itself 'religious,' and God doesn't tend to figure highly in their thinking. You can point at the Biblical arguments for Jewish presence in the area, but most are looking at that as historal, not religious, justification per se.Changleen said:
Being a Jew doesn't mean you're necessarily part of the religion of Judaism... Zionism itself is historically secular and in some strains completely atheistic. Being a Jew is an ethnicity (or even a race according to some) more than anything else.
(from the article: Religion in Israel
Main article: Religion in Israel
According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, at the end of 2004, 76.2% of Israelis were Jews by religion, 16.1% were Muslims, 2.1% Christian, 1.6% Druze and the remaining 3.9% (including Russian immigrants and some Jews) were not classified by religion.[7] Israel is not a theocracy, and religions other than Judaism are supported.
Roughly 6% of Israeli Jews define themselves as haredim (ultra-orthodox religious); an additional 9% are "religious"; 34% consider themselves "traditionalists" (not strictly adhering to Jewish halacha); and 51% are "secular" (termed "hiloni"). Among the seculars, 53% believe in God.
Israelis tend not to align themselves with a movement of Judaism (such as Reform Judaism or Conservative Judaism) but instead tend to define their religious affiliation by degree of their religious practice.
Of Arab Israelis, 82.6% were Muslim, 8.8% were Christian and 8.4% were Druze.)
Sorry, the 6% orthodox plus the 9% 'religious' equals 15%. No one else in that list is really on my list of particularly religious people (any more than anyone else in the West), and the fact that they're ethnic Jews is far more important than their religious practices.
Again, Zionism was largely a left-wing, Communist-atheist influenced movement. It wasn't about establishing a kingdom of God in the Middle East, it was about establishing a nation of ethnic Jews.
MD
Ed: Many Israelis also tend to look at Orthodox Jews like we'd look at the Amish or the Mennonites...or to look at them with respect, but at the same time, to think of them as a throwback, like a form of their own living history.
Anyhow, I think, personally, Israel is as religious a country as America is. Some people will throw religion up there as a political tool or mask, some freaks will actually try and integrate religion into society and government, but by and large, it's a secular society ruled by secular, material values.
Again, Zionism was largely a left-wing, Communist-atheist influenced movement. It wasn't about establishing a kingdom of God in the Middle East, it was about establishing a nation of ethnic Jews.
MD
Ed: Many Israelis also tend to look at Orthodox Jews like we'd look at the Amish or the Mennonites...or to look at them with respect, but at the same time, to think of them as a throwback, like a form of their own living history.
Anyhow, I think, personally, Israel is as religious a country as America is. Some people will throw religion up there as a political tool or mask, some freaks will actually try and integrate religion into society and government, but by and large, it's a secular society ruled by secular, material values.