To characterize either of these nutjobs as Christians is a disservice to real Christians everywhere.
1. Oh, you don't have to go as far back as the middle ages for Christian attrocities. Remember our catholic buddies the Spanish explorers to the New World? American christians we great for killing indian, negro, Jews, Irish, Italian, Mormons, etc as well.
Go ahead, they don't apply to Christians, we (Christians) are under the new covenant.
Hitler himself may not have been a christian but PLENTY of his ilk were... The record show that the Christians in WWII era Germany were right along side the Nazis.
Repressed by who? Sure say us, I'll buy that for the sake of argument - but why are they bombing the Kurds, Turks, and every other nation on Earth? They oppose US forces in Iraq so what do they do? Bomb Iraqi civilians? These people (terrorists) are only interested in getting what they want. They don't give a rats ass that their own people are starving.
Granted the OT has some crzy stuff in it, but as Christians we are not longer under the old covenant.
I'm sorry but as a Christian you have to live by the OT as well as the NT. No picking and choosing. And if you are Mormon you can add on yet another volume.
I never said we were the ones oppressing the majority of muslums, in most cases, its other muslums. Most middle eastern countrys have a ruling aristocracy that composes less than 1% of the population but controls more than 99% of the wealth. The kicker is the ruling class blames the west for the poverty of the rest of the nation. We dont do anything to help this situation, but we didnt cause it.
Hellooooo!!! Folks in the Congo are not as well funded however, African nations tend to keep their terrorism at home. Remember Uganda et al?
I am told it depends on how you interpret the passage. I am told that the qoute from the passage you refer to has a "historical" prefix before it and after it. To state that it implies to just go out and kill anyone that isn't a Muslim is taking that passage out of context. Muslims have a version of the 10 commandments and one of their tennants is that it is wrong to kill unless you are protecting you home, wife, or sons (I guess in that order). My Muslim friend stated it in a rather wordy and lengthy dissertation but I am relaying what I got out of it. He was starting to get annoyed by my questioning because he knew it was in reference to this post which he feels is silly. I left it at that. I am at work by the way.....jdcamb
As I have stated in a previous post, read your NT. If someone who "claims" to be a Christian (I use that title very losely), and participates in those atrocities, there is a very good chance they were not truly a Christian. Issues similar to this are actually addressed in the NT. Just because you are white, of european decent, and "grew up Christian" doesn't make you a Christian, neither does visiting a church on easter and Christmas.
I'm sure the crusades thing is beat to death, and come on, let's not forget the protestant vs Catholic conflict that resulted in a lot of bloodshed, but I'll focus on more recent events.
Ah.. but under the cool REVISED Rule of the NT, one could be a murdering Nazi, then repent, ask forgivness and still get into Heaven.
What???
I showed him this and he just stated that your silly for paraphrasing christian propaganda concerning Islam. He is aware of these passages and says they are all taken out of context. He stated that you can take many parts of the Bible and arrange them to convey a point too. He has to many deadlines to participate in this subject. I agree with him that you sound like a anti-Islam Christian War Mongering Zealot. But I don't agree with him that you actually are. I can take this any farther....sorry.....jdcamb
N8 dude, have you had a bad run in with a Christian? If so I'm sorry, you have a misunderstanding of Christianity.
And YOU have a misunderstanding of Islam. You keep claiming that Christians commiting atrocities aren't TRUE Christians. Has it crossed your mind that Muslims commiting atrocities aren't TRUE Muslims?
I have a problem with the paradox, that's all. Not all Christians are bad folk.
Exactly!
I'm going to go out on a limb here, anyone who is a member (and truly believes the KKK stuff) and is a Christian has a serious problem. According to the Bible you CANNOT be both. Read 1 John chapter 4, if anyone says they love God but hate their brother that person is a liar, and he DOES NOT LOVE GOD. That is pretty serious stuff that most folks who "claim" to be a Christian ignore. (I would say your "normal" muslim has the same problem with nutjob muslims).
wrong, hitler was an athiest. I don't care what religious school he may have attended, he made no believable professions of any faith. Curious how in Mein Kampf he wrote
and also found in Mein Kampf
ok, i got my scorecard out. Looks like we have one, and that's because we're including a cult from a distorted view of Christianity - hardly a fundamentalist. You can lump branch dividians in there, too, even if janet (damnit!) snuffed 'em.
During this discussion it dawned on me (when I was noting the difference between OT commands, and stories) that the same could be true with Muslims, I humbly admit. Until I know more, and know for sure that those passages posted from the Koran are in fact a continuous command, I can't say for sure their exact contextual meaning.
I totally agree, and as a student of the Bible you have to look at the historical, and cultural context of the text to truly be able to grasp the intentions and meaning of a certian passage.
the interpreting has already been done, for that is how i was able to read the passages. While we're on the topic of passages, just what context can any of those verses (which were quoted btw) be seen as holy, upright, & otherwise appropriate? If they're in historical context, and not preached today, then fine. I would like to believe that. It is unfortunate that one of the tenants you touched on about defending the family has been taken as a call to arms. This is the point of my thread/inquiry: is this a religion of peace? It looks like there is a splinter group by reading the headlines, but i see no news of mainstream islam to absolutely divorce itself from these fullfillers of "prophecy". I completely understand your co-worker's irritation - i believe i would be too if i were already sold-out to islam & had to explain those verses. I'm not looking to be converted, just persuaded that the avg muslim denounces these actions absolutely, and does more than lip-service.
He said it is sinful to proslytise (sp?). And that what he believes is between him and God. And as a American Muslim he would rather be left alone at work about his faith. I know this, everytime a Suicide bomber kills a bunch of innocents in Isreal he is "asked" a lot of questions he doesn't have a answers for (he calls them Homicide bombers). I feel for him as many of these question are rather pointed and biased. You can understand that? I have a good dialogue with him so... Like I do he also fears Christians as they have targeted us here at work for some kind of conversion agenda....that and we are at work.....jdcamb
Paradox?
No we're not, some of us actually ride mountian bikes and do cool stuff..................LOL
He stated that he cannot denounce what he does not understand?? I have no idea what he meant by that. I suspect he may be being dismissive. Sorry about that.....jdcamb
That's too bad, because that's not how Jesus "converted" (I hate that word) people. He loved them unconditionally and addressed the needs they had when they came to Him. Not once in the NT did Jesus stand on the street corner and scream at people, or hand our Gospel tracts. He loved people regardless of their background, which is what those Christians you work with "should" be doing.
Even christians don't call each other christian in some cases if they're of a different faith than another. Mormons, catholics, baptists, man, there are so many different interpretations of the bible and resulting sects of christianity that I don't think anyone can say what traits a true christian holds other than believing in Jesus as a resurrected being who has made atonement for sins, etc. etc.. Other than that, it's mostly up to interpretation. Yeah, every faith will argue they have the true and correct christian faith. But church doctrine changes with the times, so what was supposedly true and correct 100 years ago, is no longer true and correct today. Funny how a religion started a couple thousand years ago could splinter and change so much, yet still be claiming to have the word of "God."
Silver, I sense some anger here, yikes. Check out my other posts on this thread regarding this OT stuff. There is a huge difference between the stories that are told in the OT and the commands that were given to God's people.
What's a "God faggot?" BTW, homosexuality is no worse in the sin department according to the Bible than lying, cheating, stealing, etc.
Sure if you take it out of the orginal context. I personally believe that as orginally transcribed it is the inspired Word of God. Last time I checked I'm not mentally ill.
he might be being dismissive or he might be being reasonable... there's lots I don't understand about my religion and when someone asks me and I don't know, i tell 'em to talk to someone more educated than me instead of trying to have a frustrating discussion.
I can't answer that. Sorry....jdcamb
I was going for the ranting style of post I've seen in other places. Read it and pretend you are frothing at the mouth angry, and you'll get what I was going for
What he said.....jdcamb
