[go-ride.com]

Our next batch of Ventana El Cuervo frames are arriving this week. Because it is a new product we are considering an unusual promotion for MTBR and Ridemonkey members. The idea we are kicking around is a 30 day test ride.

Basically you have 30 days to test the frame. If you like it, then you keep it. If it’s not for you then you can return it for a refund less any wear and tear.

We are looking for feedback on this idea or other ideas about what is most beneficial to the rider.

Thanks for your help!

 

[profro]

I think some people will take advantage of the situation. It is a great idea in theory, but like I said, some people will thrash the bike and return them. Then you might be stuck with a bunch of used beat up frames. Maybe do it for local folks who come into the store first and see how that goes.

 

[MMike]

"I'd like to try one for 30 days"

*29 days later*

"Hmmm....it's ok...but I'm not sure I like the blue. How 'bout red?"

*29 days later*

"mmmmm...nnnno..... how about green?"

 

[Zark]

I'm with profro on this. People might take advantage of your kindness.
How about a 10 day demo of complete bikes to seriously interested buyers. $150 charge to cover some shipping and wear and tear, but can be applied to the purchase of a frame if you really dig it. Just an idea..

N

 

[punkassean]

That sounds like a cool idea but I would be skeptical if I were you. What are your plans for potential returned frames, would you use any returns as Demo bikes, or just sell them at a discount? I can see going forward with that in limited numbers, but not more than a few. If you are really confident in the bike then maybe offer that deal for like one week only, I'm sure it will sell you a couple extra bikes. Either way, it is cool to know you guys are trying hard to give great cust. service! I actually rode one of your El Cuervo's at RBR, it felt great and the Go-Ride employee that I spoke with was super cool and friendly. Keep up the good work.

 

[Fulton]

Originally posted by Zark
I'm with profro on this. People might take advantage of your kindness.
How about a 10 day demo of complete bikes to seriously interested buyers. $150 charge to cover some shipping and wear and tear, but can be applied to the purchase of a frame if you really dig it. Just an idea..

N

i think this is a better idea. Besides, DH bikes can get thrashed quick style, one day of runs, with a couple of falls, can put alot of dings in a frame.

 

[KL]

Originally posted by Zark
I'm with profro on this. People might take advantage of your kindness.
How about a 10 day demo of complete bikes to seriously interested buyers. $150 charge to cover some shipping and wear and tear, but can be applied to the purchase of a frame if you really dig it. Just an idea..

N

Yeah, I agree more along these lines.

 

[mental]

Yo Scott;

I like the idea. Seems like some folks here think it's a try it, then pay. Obviously, riders would purchase the bikes in advance and return them if they decided it wasn't for them - Yeah, like that'll happen.

I think it's a great program and it would work admirably.

With having to cough up purchase price before getting the bike, you'll get rid of (at least most of) the "tire kickers" looking for a free ride.

You may take a bike or two back, but if you've got a fair measurement of "wear and tear costs" I think both consumer and retailer can benefit from this kind of program.

 

[Spunger]

I like the idea, but this is what I'd do to cover my butt.

SAY Ventana gives you guys 5 frames to send out for demo's. Figure that 1-2 of them something will happen to them and you can't sell them as normal. The rest you might be able to but spending that kinda coin is hard, especially on a $2,000+ frame. I dunno how great of a investment that is.

IF you got a credit card # and made it very very clear, if it is damaged there are costs involved. It's like when you rent a quad or dirtbike in the sand dunes. You break a fender, $50, roll it, $25, etc..... So people know NOT to abuse them at their will but to enjoy the ride on one.

I'd feel better about this idea if you guys just showed up to big races and had them as demo's they could ride down the moutian. Show up to most west coast events and from you area with 3-4 built up offering test runs.

I always have liked the idea of demo's etc....but that is alot of $$$ to have floating around the USA alone if something gets damaged, messed up, broke, scratched etc.....then YOU guys have to accept it, not the person. It's like a bad thing waiting to happen, or worst off you get taken and loose the bike completly.

Atleast if you offer this at races or show up at local places, you'll bring out the DH guys who are serious about this and not just some hack online with a fake credit card # whose looking to scam you.

 

[adrenalinerush]

I vote bad idea aswell over all.

Being that it is easy for a person to sound seriously interested in a frame/bike, so they could just be pulling your leg because they dont have a frame for the next week so they are going to use the frame for a filler in the mean time. Also like in the previous post , people mentioned that it is really to trash that type of bike. Then you have to deal with the person saying I was only jumping of a curb and what not, and then you have to get insurance involved and B.S. with them and just end up with a giant headache. Plus then you well get a reputation that your products are uses, due to lending them out for a month. Then people mite steer away from your business.

The idea is good on paper, but so is communism I do work for a shop that does allow bikes to come back if they are not satistfies or for some other reason."we allow like up to a week and must be returned as it left the store" In doing this I say the result are pretty good, most people dont come back "they pay for the entile bike before taking it" however those who do come back usually come back with a dirty bike, so its not biggee easy to clean, or they go with a different ride " If not a better one then they were looking at"

So what I would do is build up a couple frames that you want people to ride, and get the biek frame out to the public. You allow the person to like demo the bike. They would have to sign a full contract with all the lawyer stuff, give you a credit card # incase anything happens, give you like $75 bucks that goes towards mantaining the bikes and they have to pay for shipping,and only be able to take it for a week. And maybe some how you can write the bikes off in your taxes somehow, dont no what that would be under just a thought.

 

[go-ride.com]

Thanks for all the good feedback. Our biggest concern would be someone just trashing a frame to trash a frame and then want to return it. However, as Mental noted, you must first purchase the frame, then test ride it, then have the option to return it less any damages. Having to purchase it first should eliminate most of the potential for abuse of the program.

The real purpose is to give the owner confidence in their buying decision. We get a lot of customers who call us week after week with the same questions about the same frames. I am guessing that they really want to get the right bike, so maybe a return option will make them feel more confident.

I'm concerned that a 10 day test ride might not be long enough. It takes most people 10 days or more just to get their parts together to build the bike up. If we can find a way to account for wear and tear then there will be motivation to return the frame asap and undamaged if you decide it's not for you.

It would be great to have a demo fleet at the big races, but we just don't have the staff to pull that off this year. However, do look for the Go-ride Pro Team at all the Nationals and North American World Cups. I'm sure if you catch them after practice they will let you take a parking lot test on their bike.

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by MMike
"I'd like to try one for 30 days"

*29 days later*

"Hmmm....it's ok...but I'm not sure I like the blue. How 'bout red?"

*29 days later*

"mmmmm...nnnno..... how about green?"

Got that one covered. It only comes in Black.

 

[dlb]

Originally posted by MMike
"I'd like to try one for 30 days"

*29 days later*

"Hmmm....it's ok...but I'm not sure I like the blue. How 'bout red?"

*29 days later*

"mmmmm...nnnno..... how about green?"

Color choices, black, black and black.

I like the idea, might be easier though just using a one or two demo bikes, only because you might end up with several used bikes to sell.

 

[Curb Hucker]

Scott, i'll take one

the last thing i need is to get another frame


I too think its not the best idea. Some changed like recomended would need to be made for this to work out in your favor.

Don

 

[Zark]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
I'm concerned that a 10 day test ride might not be long enough. It takes most people 10 days or more just to get their parts together to build the bike up.

Exactly why I suggested a whole bike. There are too many incompatabilities, modifications and other hassles associated with getting a new bike together, not to mention you don't know what a customer is putting on it. Maybe he didn't like the bike's handleing because he put a beat to hell Jr-T on it, you don't know.. Even 30 days may not be enough time if they don't have all the parts sitting right there.

With a whole bike demo you can assure it was built with components its meant to be running and handle the way it should. The rider can get a feel for things and all is well. Do 1 or 2 of each size as the demo fleet, and sell them at the end of the season.

 

[stanky_dlx]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
Got that one covered. It only comes in Black.

How about polished instead? Easier to clean up and if you get a scratch you can polish it out.


Anyway this is an awesome idea for the consumer.
After all the parking lot test is pretty useless to see how a bike actually handles/fits your riding style...after my 2 day demo of a VT2 I decided that was not the trail/XC bike for me. To long of a wheel base and I found the SPV on the Minute fork and 3way swinger either too harsh or useless for my weight, ridingstyle, and terrain (N GA Mtns).

 

[SuperSlow]

would you be doing a wholesale/ep thing on the 30 trial?

 

[mental]

Perhaps I have more confidence in our fellow riders, but I think those of you saying "he's gonna get burned" are a little too wary.

Do you really think anyone will cough up $3500 or more (UP FRONT) with the intention of pulling the wool over Go-Ride's eyes? Keep in mind buyers will know full well that any damage and wear and tear on the bike would be deducted from their future refund?

I don't know about your neighbourhood, but the folks I know of who may be capable of such deceit generally don't have the funds up front...

Scott, it'll work, and work well! (at least on my side of the border) This addresses your biggest challenge as an online retailer and provided you can quantify damage, I think you've got nothing to lose.

 

[narlus]

i think it's a pretty cool idea too...how many times have you been able to try out a DH bike fully before buying? if you have, chances are it was a friend's. no one i know has a cuervo, or a canfield, or a m-pire, or whatever boutique bike you can name. it is a lot of $ to outlay on something you've never tried. you can get a decent idea of some characteristics via bike geometry, but a lot you can't, and much of a bike's "feel" is subjective and can't be quantified anyway.

i also agree that a fully built bike is an easier thing for prospective customers to demo than just a frame, but that's a whole 'nother bag of worms in terms of parts selection and maintenance.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by ViolentVolante
Scott, i'll take one

the last thing i need is to get another frame


I too think its not the best idea. Some changed like recomended would need to be made for this to work out in your favor.

Don

That would work for you, you could finally get a different frame each week.

 

[Curb Hucker]

Originally posted by Brian HCM#1
That would work for you, you could finally get a different frame each week.

 

[Kornphlake]

How about sending a complete demo bike and billing the customer the full retail amount for the complete bike on the condition that at the end of thirty days the bike could be kept as is and the charge would not be reversed or the demo bike could be sent in for credit towards a brand new frame or complete build. This way you don't have to worry about somebody not liking the frame because they hung a crappy fork on it or didn't have a trued wheelset, you also minimize damages to the frame from some hack trying to assemble his incompatible parts on it. I'd be willing to pay full retail for a demo bike knowing that if I liked the scratch and dent parts enough I could get the price I paid credited towards a brand new bike, but if I didn't like it I could "rent" a bike for 30 days. Besides you guys have the best prices around and the Cuervo is only sold at Go-Ride so there's really no worry that somebody will test it out then go buy the same frame from Supergo instead. Maybe charge a restocking fee of $100 or something to cover shipping and discourage 13 year olds from scamming you.

I didn't see you guys at BB this weekend, I was going to stop by and say hello but our paths must not have crossed. BTW I'm loving the AS-X I picked up last year. I was hesitant to be the guniea pig and be the first one to have one but it's worked out great. I'd have totally been willing to do the 30 day trial thing though. Yet another of the reasons why I'm proud to be a Go-Ride customer. Seriously you guys must stay up late at night thinking about what you can do to provide better service, I've never gotten so much knowledgeable attention from any shop. Except for the ones that are open Saturday

 

[dw]

I don't think that it is a good idea personally. I think that if you keep one or two demo bikes availalble for riders to test out, then that would be OK, but nothing that allows the rider to take the bike home with them. I guess I just don't have that blind trust for people, regardless of the credit card # they give me.

Is this a service that you are planning on offering for multiple frame brands sold through go-ride, or just a service for Ventana frames?

Dave

 

[dw]

Originally posted by Kornphlake
How about sending a complete demo bike and billing the customer the full retail amount for the complete bike on the condition that at the end of thirty days the bike could be kept as is and the charge would not be reversed or the demo bike could be sent in for credit towards a brand new frame or complete build.

Thats about the only way I'd go for it if it was my shop.

Scammers are crafty.

 

[zedro]

another worry is if you do have to charge the person for damage, a big ordeal could be created giving you guys a bad name in the end regardless of whats fair (accusations of gouging, etc).

Basically it would be like setting up a rental system, but i have my doubts weither you could keep the rates low enough for promotional purposes and still cover your butts money-wise. Seems a bit risky.

 

[MMike]

Maybe as a promotion, you could fly over the crowd at one of the NCS events and drop free frames from a helicopter! That would get people talking about you!


("I could have sworn turkeys could fly")

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by ViolentVolante

 

[narlus]

Originally posted by MMike
Maybe as a promotion, you could fly over the crowd at one of the NCS events and drop free frames from a helicopter! That would get people talking about you!


("I could have sworn turkeys could fly")

mike, did you OD on humor pills today? yr killing me!

 

[mental]

Not to sound like a prick here but you guys are rehashing incorrect information again and again!

Here's how Scott's program would work...

First, you buy the bike get it? - you buy the bike!!

Pay for it all up front! Not a CC#, you buy it up front!

Then, if you don't like the bike for whatever reason, you have the option to return it for a refund (less wear and tear costs)

Just like a 30 day return policy!

Now, please continue to discuss, but for God's sake, at least discuss using correct information!

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by mental
Not to sound like a prick here but you guys are rehashing incorrect information again and again!

Here's how Scott's program would work...

First, you buy the bike get it? - you buy the bike!!

Pay for it all up front! Not a CC#, you buy it up front!

Then, if you don't like the bike for whatever reason, you have the option to return it for a refund (less wear and tear costs)

Just like a 30 day return policy!

Now, please continue to discuss, but for God's sake, at least discuss using correct information!

in our buisness class that is essentially called a rental program, exept the expectation of ownership is reversed, but the way the expenses are calculated is exactly the same.

 

[crashing_sux]

I agree with what someone mentioned before. There is always the possibility of people trying to abuse the situation but it should happen slowly enough that you could react to it.

Most of the people I know who would try to take advantage of you don't have 2-4k in their banks or on their credit cards, plus considering shipping and some sort of reasonable restocking fee it's going to cost them a few hundred anyway.

People who really are interested but nervous about spending thousands on a bike they've never ridden will know that worst case scenario they are only out a few hundred dollars, instead of a few grand and it's unlikely you're going to have a 13 year old kid essentially renting the bike for a month for a few hundred bucks on his parents CC.

It sounds like a great idea. I don't know what volume you guys do on these but I would guess that it's low enough that if you get 3-5 frames back right away it would be enough of a trend to let you know you needed to discontinue or modify the program and you shouldnt' be out much, if any money.

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by mental
Not to sound like a prick here but you guys are rehashing incorrect information again and again!

Here's how Scott's program would work...

First, you buy the bike get it? - you buy the bike!!

Pay for it all up front! Not a CC#, you buy it up front!

Then, if you don't like the bike for whatever reason, you have the option to return it for a refund (less wear and tear costs)

Just like a 30 day return policy!

Now, please continue to discuss, but for God's sake, at least discuss using correct information!

So what you're saying is that Scott will pay us to take the frame? Sounds awesome! I'll take 5!

 

[Repack]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
........
The idea we are kicking around is a 30 day test ride.

.................

Thanks for your help!

I helped manage a demo fleet and can say that your idea is neither unique nor good. Sorry. Just being honnest. We had everything from low-end FSR XC's to Intense Tracers and an Uzzi SLX, as well as several Enduro's, other mtb's, and a number of different road bikes.
The mountain bikes took a severe beating. The customers would never under any circumstances admit to doing anything wrong. Defining "normal wear and tear" is also impossible. A dinged big ring is normal, right? Well how about when a-hole customer tries to get up over a rock that he has never attempted on his own bike b/c he had always feared banging his own rings.
Then there was the whole issues of employees using the bike. Normally the employee was borrowing a bike b/c there own bike was pounded. Can you guess how the demo came back?

I would say that the biggest problem was that no matter what, a rented bike is never treated as well as an owned bike. The little scratches and stuff really add up, even under the best of circumstances, leading to a pitiful resale value at year-end.

I think that your best bet might be to build up a few and bring them to races/events. Short test rides on fun trails leaves the rider with the "wow" factor and nothing else. No time to notice the bikes small quirks

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by MMike
Maybe as a promotion, you could fly over the crowd at one of the NCS events and drop free frames from a helicopter! That would get people talking about you!


("I could have sworn turkeys could fly")

I must be tired. But I can't stop giggling about this...

http://radio.about.com/library/blwkrpturkeydropaudio.htm

“It's a helicopter, and it's coming this way. It's flying something behind it, I can't quite make it out, it's a large banner and it says, uh - Happy... Thaaaaanksss... giving! ... From ... W ... K ... R... P!!


No parachutes yet. Can't be skydivers... I can't tell just yet what they are, but - Oh my God, Johnny, they're turkeys!! Johnny, can you get this? Oh, they're plunging to the earth right in front of our eyes! One just went through the windshield of a parked car! Oh, the humanity! The turkeys are hitting the ground like sacks of wet cement! Not since the Hindenberg tragedy has there been anything like this!”

 

[freeriding101]

i agree with ever one that doesnt like the idea

 

[go-ride.com]

Thanks again for all the great feedback. Sorry I haven't responded sooner. I've been swamped at the shop and finishing a new DH course for next weekends race in UT.

The concerns expressed here are certainly ones I have too. Abuse of a good thing would...well…not be a good thing.

Ideally I wanted a way for serious buyers to be comfortable with trying a newer product. So far the reaction to the Cuervo has been incredible. We signed 4 Pros this year to our team and all of them greatly based their decision on how much they liked the bike. In other words I feel pretty confident that anyone who tries the bike will be very happy with it.

The idea of having a complete demo bike or two is a possibility, but I do see some problems:
1. The customer would have to be charged a full $5K as deposit to rent the bike. It’s just too expensive of a product to ship out to anyone who calls and maybe never get it back.
2. All of the parts would belong to Go-ride, thus opening up the risk of a lot of damaged parts instead of just the frame. The shipping alone of complete bikes causes regular damage. How would I know if the shipper caused the damage or the customer?
3. Even if a customer really likes the bike they would still have to send it back and then order a new bike for themselves. This would a real inconvenience for the customer. One of the benefits of sending a new frame only is that if they like (as I believe to be in most cases), they just keep it because it is already paid for.

I like the idea of having a demo fleet at the major races. Maybe next year? It would get a lot of exposure, but each year there are more riders buying DH bikes that either don’t race or don’t attend Norba Nationals. I still think it would be a nice option.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Kornphlake]

I'd still go ahead with the idea if you've got enough faith in your product. Most people who shop someplace like go ride are already pretty serious about buying a bike, I mean it's not like you carry low end giants and treks. Anybody who orders a frame on the 30 day trial will already have most of the parts before ordering and will know how they ride and what they need before they even place the order. Let's face it there's always a slight probability that you build up a brand new bike to try out with the intention of sending it back at the end of 30 days and on day 2 you eat it really hard and wreck the bike, if the frame is new the only recourse is to pay Go-Ride for the frame and then try to get a crash replacement. Anybody who's got a high end frame knows that bikes are not industructable and they will most likely be willing to accept the liability.

I'd just make sure to charge a hefty restocking fee plus have some lawyer speak holding the customer responsible financially for damage to the frame. On that note what are you planning on doing with any frames that may come back from the trial period with scratches and dents?

 

[Macrider]

Originally posted by dw
I don't think that it is a good idea personally. I think that if you keep one or two demo bikes availalble for riders to test out, then that would be OK, but nothing that allows the rider to take the bike home with them. I guess I just don't have that blind trust for people, regardless of the credit card # they give me.

Is this a service that you are planning on offering for multiple frame brands sold through go-ride, or just a service for Ventana frames?

Dave

The real question is when is Go-Ride going to start doing this with Evil frames

(after 30 days of brutal dj/urban/freeride) "nope, didn't really dig the Imperial, here it is, please send a Sovereign"

(after 30 days of trailriding/dj/urban) "nope, didn't really love the Sovereign, here it is, please send a D.O.C."

repeat with every Evil bike made....

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

How you would do it, I dont know I just want to stess the need for the service

When I buy a car I can go to a garage and try numerous cars all on the same stretch of road, all in one day.

In DH land it doesnt work like that. " excuse me you dont know me, but can I have a ride on your bike?" sorry mate it cost me £4500, I would castrate you if you scratched it......well you get the idea........complicated by the fact that i am 230lbs and there is a 300lb spring on that V10 I am attempting to borrow.

Test riding a frame /fork / brake is a major pain for me, and simply doesnt happen. Very few companies appear to recognise this problem. Im glad go-ride do.

Basically keep at it go-ride, IMHO test riding a dh bike is completely impractical for many people, and few like buying a bike without a test. If you can fill this need then I believe you will be fillign a massive gap in the market, and I wish you every success


I would charge them a fee for the bike (which is taken off should they buy it)

Make them put down a full deposit.

Cover your frames in 3m.

 

[dw]

Originally posted by Macrider
The real question is when is Go-Ride going to start doing this with Evil frames

(after 30 days of brutal dj/urban/freeride) "nope, didn't really dig the Imperial, here it is, please send a Sovereign"

(after 30 days of trailriding/dj/urban) "nope, didn't really love the Sovereign, here it is, please send a D.O.C."

repeat with every Evil bike made....

ahhahaa

Sonofa!..