Again, I fail to understand how food, fuel, and water. There is still and will continue to be that little place called Egypt on one side. Not to mention the fact that the Palestinians had been launching rockets into Israel for months.
Israel's Crimes Against Humanity
- Thread starter Samirol
- Start date
Hamas has not been launching attacks into Israel before the truce, and Israel has full authority over what goes in and out of Gaza. Gaza cannot receive supplies unless Israel wants it to.
So let's see - rockets have killed basically no one and actually done little damage. You can't even aim the damn things. Israeli airstrikes from F-16s and attack helicopters killed 155 and injured 300+ in one day and they have been starving Gaza for months, after they themselves broke the truce.
And this is ok?
Last I checked, rockets were still being fired throughout Oct, Nov and Dec., including more than 60 that struck 2 days ago. Claiming one side is blameless (or "didn't react") is overlooking the role that both sides have played in this conflict.
From the left-leaning Haaretz.com:
I'm all for Israel leaving the occupied territories, and think that that would be the best way to end the situation, but that also gives them the latitude to strike back, and HARD, when rockets are still being fired...
100% false.
http://news.egypt.com/en/200810224474/news/middle-east/qassam-rocket-launched-from-gaza-into-israel.html
Hamas tightened its grip on the Gaza Strip last year, and runs the place now that they grabbed power from the PA. If they're not actively launching the rockets themselves, they're certainly allowing it to happen. The main way for explosives, guns, ammo, etc, to get into Gaza is through smuggling tunnels from Egypt. Otherwise, how have the parts/fuel for more than 3000 rockets and mortars that were fired at Israel this year gotten in? It's not like they're powered by diesel fuel and bandages...
Again, I'm going to point out EGYPT, you seem to refuse to acknowledge the common boarder between them and Gaza. This is the last time I'm going to say it and if you keep saying no Israel has full control, while ignoring the fact THERE IS ANOTHER COUNTRY NEXT TO GAZA!!!! If you cannot acknowledge this simple fact (that actually destroys your argument) then am going to stop debating with you about the conflict.
Hamas condemned the rocket attacks during the truce, Islamic Jihad perpetrated those attacks.
What do you want Egypt to do exactly?
Basically no one, has been killed?? How can you even say that, a friend of mine worked on an ambulance in Israel for a year, and while it is true many more Palestinians are dieing than Israeli's those rockets are definitely doing some damage and killing people.
I don't take what is necessarily a "pro Israel" stance and agree that the Israeli's are definitely doing some horrible things and killing a lot of people that don't deserve to die.
Again, the starving Gaza, and breaking truce arguments don't work in the least. One is simply wrong, the Palestinians broke the truce, last time a checked launching rockets into another country (how accurate they are is totally besides the point) would be considered a breach of a truce and would usually warrant some sort of military action. Again for the millionth time I'm going to point out Egypt and leave it at that....
You mean the Islamic Jihad that is run by the same people, supported by, and largely funded by hamas
OPEN THERE BOARDER SO THERE PALESTINIAN BROTHERS CAN GET FOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Why should Israel do it, the Palestinians are launching rockets into there boarder.
Source? Islamic Jihad and Hamas don't get along very well.
And risk confrontation with Israel, as well as having massive national security issues? Egypt is trying to negotiate peace, not make things worse.
Condemning is one thing, actually doing anything to stop it is something entirely different... After the Hamas took power from the PA in Gaza, they run every aspect of that little area, and like it or not, they're responsible for it. They moved extremely quickly a year ago when they rounded up the PA members, and Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa aren't anywhere near the strength that the PA were.
Is Colombia responsible for the acts of FARC?
e: Montashu, blaming Egypt is getting off course from the ones that are doing the killing. It is Israel that is causing the Gaza strip to be like the Warsaw Ghetto, it is Israel perpetrating these massive human rights violations. Egypt could help, but at the expense of trashing all Israeli relations.
e: Montashu, blaming Egypt is getting off course from the ones that are doing the killing. It is Israel that is causing the Gaza strip to be like the Warsaw Ghetto, it is Israel perpetrating these massive human rights violations. Egypt could help, but at the expense of trashing all Israeli relations.
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Islamic Jihad is just there "terrorist, freedom fighter" arm of Hamas and you know it. Don't even try and play that you don't.
What about Israels national security
Don't dance around it, prove it.
National security at the expense of apartheid is not acceptable.
Columbia is not responsible for FARC, because it's a different organization, and the Columbian government actually spends money to fight them.
Blaming Egypt is not getting of course, one of your main points against Israel is the closing of the boarders, but while Israel is responsible for that, Egypt is equally responsible. While Israel definitely oversteps it's bounds, and commits many horrible atrocities, you are totally ignoring what the Palestinians are doing. They are run by an organization has that succeeded in killing hundreds of Israeli's and openly calls for the death of Israel. While Israel carries much of the blame, the rest of the Arab world, and the Palestinians themselves are very much responsible as well. If the Palestinians would stop calling for the destruction of Israel, stop launching rockets, and stop demanding the country be wiped of the map, I have a strange feeling Israel would change it's attitude quite fast. Every single "Palestinian" (both Palestinian and Arab-Israeli) have called for the destruction of Israel (I've met probably 50 or so Palestinians and I am talking about literally all of them) while most of the Israeli's a know fully support giving the Palestinians the West Bank and Gaza (many of whom want the capitol of Palestine to be in west Jerusalem)
Fathi Shaqaqi started out in Hamas... I can't find a source, but I'm pretty sure he was heavily involved in bomb making.
I'm not saying it is, I'm just pointing out that Egypt is doing the SAME THING, while you continue to place all the blame on Israel.
Egypt is doing what it can while keeping good relations with Israel, Israel is the one dropping bombs. The blame is not equal, one is perpetrating the attacks and the other is doing less than what it can to prevent the attacks.
"Less than what it can" is a pretty weak argument, since the ceasefire included them stopping rocket fire. From what I could gather, they arrested a trio of Palestinians back in July for launching a rocket, and nothing since then. Sorry, if you're going to condone something by not lifting a finger to stop it when it's occurring in (or from) your territory, you're going to be held responsible for it. Case closed.
I was referring to Egypt, I want Egypt to interfere more, but I understand why they aren't. My point is that it is pointless to focus on what Egypt is or isn't doing when Israel is the one pulling the trigger.
You have to do some searching for other Palestinian arrests, mostly because it just isn't covered in most media. Hamas arresting people just isn't really a front page thing, but I can post some other stories of them arresting militants.
The fact that when they *do* arrest someone it seems to make the front pages (search google news for Qassam Rocket Hamas Arrest) makes me think otherwise, but I'll welcome any links for the last 3 months or so of escalation where Hamas actually acted proactively and arrested the perpetrators.
And no, Egypt isn't doing enough either to stop the smuggling. Something like establishing a 1/4 mile border zone with no buildings allowed would do a lot to stop the smuggling tunnels, but it would be political suicide...
Let's be honest, the smuggling is the only reason that a lot of Gazans are alive.
The articles I have are about 5-6 months old, but I'll do some digging.
edit: here's one, I'll dig up more
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3566977,00.html
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255+ dead, 400+ injured. Israel promises to continue the attack through the night. Talk about taking the high road here. 
They have locked up the palestinians in a ghetto, basically, starved them of food, water and power and now they are bombarding them.
You'd think of all people, the jews would be a tad sensitive to atrocities like these. It's absolutely despicable and is starting to border on genocide.
They have locked up the palestinians in a ghetto, basically, starved them of food, water and power and now they are bombarding them.
You'd think of all people, the jews would be a tad sensitive to atrocities like these. It's absolutely despicable and is starting to border on genocide.
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Israel is probably one of the world's leading terrorist states, and the U.S. is its biggest supporter.
Fvck this world.
Fvck this world.
you realize that's talking about the one event that I could find from back in early July, right?
Frasier, is there a reason why Israel alone should be taking the high-road? i was a big supporter of Israel just getting out of Gaza (and they should do the same with the WB), but the plethora of rockets/morter and rifle fire that's still coming out of Gaza (3000 rockets and mortars or so since the beginning of the year) is destroying their credibility. It's similar to Hezbollah trying to justify continued attacks when Israel has left Lebanon (Shaba Farms not withstanding). Yes, there is still the issue of the WB, but if they had proved to be a more stabilizing force in Gaza, it would have gone a long way to proving that they could be an equal partner in peace talks. Now Israelis instead see all of the WB being used to launch rocket attacks instead of just Gaza...dante said:
Yes, there is a reason. Israel is a nation-state. The palestinians attacking are not, they are terrorists with half assed weapons with no accuracy or range. Israel is attacking innocent civilians with modern attack helicopters and smart bombs dropped from M16s.
If I was a Palestinian being kept hostage in a walled in territory with no food or power, you can bet your ass I would be launching rockets at Israel as well. It is called survival. Last I checked, the rockets being fired by millitants aren't even killing anyone due to their horrible range and accuracy. Now Israel has basically executed 255+ civilians in less than 24 hours.
What Israel is doing isn't retaliation, what they are doing is bordering on Genocide. Also, Israel originally broke the ceasefire, not Palestine.
If I was a Palestinian being kept hostage in a walled in territory with no food or power, you can bet your ass I would be launching rockets at Israel as well. It is called survival. Last I checked, the rockets being fired by millitants aren't even killing anyone due to their horrible range and accuracy. Now Israel has basically executed 255+ civilians in less than 24 hours.
What Israel is doing isn't retaliation, what they are doing is bordering on Genocide. Also, Israel originally broke the ceasefire, not Palestine.
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Dates are reversed, that is from November 7th
HAHAHAHAHAHA you can't be serious, the United States is CLEARLY the worlds leading terrorist state. Our whole war on terror is actually a terrorist act by definition.
What Israel is doing today fits this definition perfectly. They are randomly attacking civilians and causing mass casualties to hopefully persuade the Palestinian Authority to crack down on rocket attacks.
This is not what the US is doing, they are targeting terrorists directly in places like Afghanistan. At no point have they directly attacked civilians with the intention of coercing people to do anything; they are trying to exterminate a perceived threat.
What the US is doing is not acceptable at all, but it is certainly not terrorism.
By the US's definition, if you support terrorists, you are a terrorist state.
:huh:
you call launching rockets at a militarily superior (to an astronomical power) nation 'survival'? i guess that helps your other comments make sense.
Sitting on your ass while being locked in a ghetto and being starved to death and or bombed from jets you can't even see is a better solution I take it?:huh:
you call launching rockets at a militarily superior (to an astronomical power) nation 'survival'? i guess that helps your other comments make sense.
Clearly, Israel isn't the least bit interested in peace so violence is all they will understand.
Yes, a half million plus Iraqis dead. Not to mention the massive amount of refuges that have left and are trying to leave the country. We monetarily support some TERRIBLE dictators, and have deposed many democratically elected governments. We have used all kinds of threats to all different kinds of countries around the world. You want the number one terrorist state, look no further than the United States Empire.
Seriously, can you even read?
Terrorism is coercion through terror. That is not what the US is doing.
Does 1 + 1 not equal 2 in your world? You certainly like to dance around issues by avoiding facts and common sense. The us is wrong by invading multiple sovereign nations, I'm pretty sure that is pretty easy to understand here. However, they are not terrorists due to the very definition of terrorism.
If you want to rant about nonsense, you should hit up http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/ . They'd have a field day with your conspiracy theories and tinfoil backed statements.
Terrorism is coercion through terror. That is not what the US is doing.
Does 1 + 1 not equal 2 in your world? You certainly like to dance around issues by avoiding facts and common sense. The us is wrong by invading multiple sovereign nations, I'm pretty sure that is pretty easy to understand here. However, they are not terrorists due to the very definition of terrorism.
If you want to rant about nonsense, you should hit up http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/ . They'd have a field day with your conspiracy theories and tinfoil backed statements.
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You are dead Fin wrong about that, I call bull****. The average Israeli wants nothing more than peace. The second the Palestinians acknowledge Israel as a state and attacks on Israel stop the Israeli's will be more than happy (for the most part, the super conservative people are SUPER racist) to open there boarders to the Palestinians. Say what you will but it would do a whole lot to solve the conflict, try and place blame where you will, both sides are at fault and what needs to happen is peaceful coexistence.
Ya, they showed that really well in the last 24 hours didn't they? The jews certainly didn't enjoy the ghettos and atrocious treatment back during WW2, but suddenly it's ok when they are doing similar things right?
You're so ridiculously biased you'll never see both sides of the situation.
Israel will never let Palestinians roam free in Israel for fear of retribution for the years of abuse. There will always be an extremist element in Palestine due to this. Israel is a nation, the nation itself needs to take the high road. The Palestinians attacking are terrorists, not a nation. There is a massive difference between the two, and a massive difference in expected behaviour.
The world gasps when Palestinians blow up 15 people in a mall (and rightfully so), but it's OK when Israelies starve and exterminate Palestinians like fish in a barrel? Please.
Back to the ignore list you go. You should come back to this forum when you are a bit more prepared.
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well considering that only happened thanks to said rockets being launched...i have no idea what the **** you are trying to ask. a little help please?
Coercion through terror, lets see, we told sadam, stop making and possessing weapons (that he didn't have any more, and the stuff he did have back in the 80s came from us) or we are going to come kick the **** out of you. We then killed a half MILLION people and displaced millions more. That sure sounds like terrorism to me. You do what we want, or we kick your ass. We send money to the saudi's, we send Israel money, we are supporting a horrible regime in Nigeria that's raping that place of resources.
You are totally missing my points, both sides are to blame, if either side took a real step to creating peace it would happen, many people on both sides want this to happen, there are extremists on both sides who are preventing this. You want to sit and play the blame game, when I want to acknowledge fault on both sides try and get past that and figure out how the situation could be solved.Ya, they showed that really well in the last 24 hours didn't they? The jews certainly didn't enjoy the ghettos and atrocious treatment back during WW2, but suddenly it's ok when they are doing similar things right?
You're so ridiculously biased you'll never see both sides of the situation.
Israel will never let Palestinians roam free in Israel for fear of retribution for the years of abuse. There will always be an extremist element in Palestine due to this. Israel is a nation, the nation itself needs to take the high road. The Palestinians attacking are terrorists, not a nation. There is a massive difference between the two, and a massive difference in expected behaviour.
The world gasps when Palestinians blow up 15 people in a mall (and rightfully so), but it's OK when Israelies starve and exterminate Palestinians like fish in a barrel? Please.
Back to the ignore list you go. You should come back to this forum when you are a bit more prepared.
It's clear both sides are to blame. No one is questioning that.
Israel however continually escalates the situation with attacks like these and mass civilian casualties. Locking up your enemies, starving them and then attacking them when they lash out isn't going to lead to peace. They are a nation. They need to rise above the terrorists, not stoop to their level. More is expected of them as a legitimate nation.
If the Palestinian government was attacking Israel with organized armed forces, it would be a different story but they aren't. A terrorist group is doing the attacking, yet the civilians are the ones paying the price.
edit: spelling.
Israel however continually escalates the situation with attacks like these and mass civilian casualties. Locking up your enemies, starving them and then attacking them when they lash out isn't going to lead to peace. They are a nation. They need to rise above the terrorists, not stoop to their level. More is expected of them as a legitimate nation.
If the Palestinian government was attacking Israel with organized armed forces, it would be a different story but they aren't. A terrorist group is doing the attacking, yet the civilians are the ones paying the price.
edit: spelling.
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now you're talking sense.
