Annoying isn't it? I suspect it's partly because it's easier to design a twist shifter to operate the push-pull twin cable system many of these things run, but also maybe because just about every permutation of trigger shifter has been patented by either Sram or Shimano, leaving everyone else struggling to figure out something different. Just a thought.Sweet.
Question- How come these all use twist shifters? Why can't a trigger style shifter be used? Or can it and I missed that thread?
course!! the gray matter wasn't working too well yesterday...Think of it like a regular bike. Larger on the front and smaller on the back = harder combo.
It's a tough call. Sometimes it gets out of hand, but sometimes people put huge amounts of time and effort into projects hoping to merely recoup their investments and advance the technology, only to have someone come along and rip it off. And rip it off poorly to boot, which hurts the reputation of the product. Sure, some people want to make boatloads of money - it's still not clear what Honda wants to do - but that's not always what it's about.Are they going to try to patent aluminum, titanium, magnesium, steel, stainless-steel, and wood as well?? There has to be someone somewhere who has used some sort of fiber reinforcement for a gear enclosure (prior art)?
What about BCDs original gear box?
What some people try to call "IP" gets pretty ridiculous, IMO.
Am I out in left field on this?
Hmmm. Well, to use a trigger you'd need the mechanism to be spring-loaded like a rear der., and things are already pretty complicated in there. I imagine it could be done - BCD always seems ahead of the curve so maybe he's on it. If you could do that, I wonder if you could just sell the box and make it compatible across SRAM and Shimano cassettes and shifters, just like selling rear hubs or whatever. It's not clear to me if they are using standard freehub bodies in there or what, but I don't think selling a box compatible with existing drivetrain stuff would create any patent issues - in fact that would seem like an ideal way to go.Annoying isn't it? I suspect it's partly because it's easier to design a twist shifter to operate the push-pull twin cable system many of these things run, but also maybe because just about every permutation of trigger shifter has been patented by either Sram or Shimano, leaving everyone else struggling to figure out something different. Just a thought.
No kidding. Maybe they could put it on the rear wheel.I still wish people would get away from the "massive amount of junk near the BB" idea. It limits suspension design, and that's a big deal IMO.
I'm guessing you're joking there,reducing the rear wheels unsprung weight and having the gearbox weight low and a high pivot location are all the best bennefits you could gain from a gearbox,followed by shifting bennefits.I think it's a great step forward with what appears to be a sound logical design that's hopefully reliable. In the video the chain and therefore cassettes seem to be under alot of load and therefore shortly lived but I gues that's not that big a deal and they may have been changing lots of gears for effect and I guess you normally would only be changing one or two gears at a time.No kidding. Maybe they could put it on the rear wheel.
Are they going to try to patent aluminum, titanium, magnesium, steel, stainless-steel, and wood as well?? There has to be someone somewhere who has used some sort of fiber reinforcement for a gear enclosure (prior art)?
What about BCDs original gear box?
What some people try to call "IP" gets pretty ridiculous, IMO.
Am I out in left field on this?
I saw Ritchie's bike the other day, while out riding.Can't seem to view that.
Is it a double inverted cluster like Ritchie from NZ's been running.
Edit:
Guess it is
For downhill, many racers are running a road cassette 11-23 = 209% range.Looks like 11-28 clusters or thereabouts.
That means a 650% range.
In steps of 20% increase.
Rohloff runs 500% in 13% steps. Sounds pretty able-bodied to me.
actually that'd give you a 13 speed with 6- 9% changes. Not very appropriate for DH where the ideal gap would be about 20%.For downhill, many racers are running a road cassette 11-23 = 209% range.
You could build one of these with an 11-17 7 speed on both sides which would have 239% range in approximately 15% steps and would be much smaller and lighter than the one shown.
What are you running BCD?
can't see patents holding water. Other than a few details perhaps. All been done lots of times dating back up to a century so priors and obviousness. If they hassle you say " fine, I'll pay you a licence fee for any details of your design I've copied. Or we go to court and you lose your patent due to priors and obviousness. "well i was doing 12-19 - tooth profiles cut down for quick shifts.
but i never got it to shift as fast as i wanted.
now with his patents its in the trash.
i think 29 wheels will progress DH far FAR FAR more!
I am talking about a 7 sprocket cluster on both ends, each 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, & 17. The system mates one sprocket on one cluster with the inline sprocket on the other cluster only. This will result in 239% range in 7 gears with approximately 15% steps. An 11 tooth at the crank may not take the torque so one might have to start at 13 teeth.actually that'd give you a 13 speed with 6- 9% changes. Not very appropriate for DH where the ideal gap would be about 20%.
I'd be looking at a 6 speed with 3 at the bottom and 4 at the top and a 250% range.
These systems have some potential due to no need to move either cluster and minimal chain length changes making a compact single jockey derailier possible. the best settup would be to have the clusters offset so ones cogs are between the others. This should allow shifting to alternate between top and bottom as long as the right stiffness and jockey sideplay are built into the shifter carriage. Shifting top and bottom simultaneously is clumsy. Provided smooth shifting of the "front der" part is achievable these could prove the best derinbox design.
No way!! Don't ditch it. You had a diab what, almost 10 years ago? If anyone has prior art... Don't let this slow you down at all.well i was doing 12-19 - tooth profiles cut down for quick shifts.
but i never got it to shift as fast as i wanted.
now with his patents its in the trash.
i think 29 wheels will progress DH far FAR FAR more!
Annoying isn't it? I suspect it's partly because it's easier to design a twist shifter to operate the push-pull twin cable system many of these things run, but also maybe because just about every permutation of trigger shifter has been patented by either Sram or Shimano, leaving everyone else struggling to figure out something different. Just a thought.
I'm just not sure why you'd want to use twice as many sprockets and require both ends to shift simultaneously for the same range and steps as a one at a time rig.I am talking about a 7 sprocket cluster on both ends, each 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, & 17. The system mates one sprocket on one cluster with the inline sprocket on the other cluster only. This will result in 239% range in 7 gears with approximately 15% steps. An 11 tooth at the crank may not take the torque so one might have to start at 13 teeth.