[jncarpenter]

Hello all........I am a Christian as well, but some of you guys posts are confusing me & I think I understand why they confuse others. Am I to believe that we have no choices here on earth? I mean didn't God give me a free will? Can I not use that free will to decide life OR death? At least that is what the bible teaches.

What am I saying?.............well, I believe that God has a plan for every person, from beginning to end, but it is our responsibility to seek Him to the point where our "part" is revealed to us. We then choose(!) to align our lives with that plan, and as we do he "assists" us by doing/ helping with the "impossible" (His plan for us includes the impossible, if it didn't, we wouldn't need Him to get there) All affairs of this life are not set in stone, that is a belief system based on FATE & not FAITH!

Also, is not the New Testament full of references to an "unseen" enemy (god of this world) whose agenda is to kill, steal & destroy? Hmmmmm why is Jesus/ God blamed when something bad happens & people simply say "only God knows why He did this"?

Friends, Jesus came to restore creation, & part of that restoration involves returning the authority God originally gave man to him, through Jesus Name. Authority over satan, & all his kingdom. Someone stated the pharisees stumbling points, but even the disciples stumbled over this one. He gave US the authority, & commanded us to go! Go & seek/ walk in His will, & when opposition arises for the Word's sake, the authority & reponsibility is ours, backed by His power & His kingdom! He also chose to include us in His plan. He could have sent angels to fly around the world proclaiming the gospel, but He chose to limit Himself & include us. So next time, don't ask why did God allow this, ask, why did we Christians allow it. What did WE do with the power, authority and provision he has given us in Christ?

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but some people really hear the wrong message from Christians.


PS- Forgiveness should be a prevalent theme associated with Christians, not elitism or perfection. Having sight you did not earn or achieve does not make you more prominent than the blind !!


PEACE BE WITH YOU RM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by jncarpenter

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but some people really hear the wrong message from Christians.


PS- Forgiveness should be a prevalent theme associated with Christians, not elitism or perfection. Having sight you did not earn or achieve does not make you more prominent than the blind !!


PEACE BE WITH YOU RM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree, we don't help the unsaved by trying to ram Christ down their faces.

In my opinion I'm just a sinner, who is saved, not a saint holding anything over anyone.

Except for SVEN who falls quite short of my spiritually:devil:

The Newsboys in their corny, yet good song, Shine say:

Shine, make them wonder what you got, make them wish that they were not, on the oudside looking bored.

So maybe we Christians as a whole should just read our bibles, live our lives properly, and let the Holy Spirit be the boss.

My two sinning cents.

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by ummbikes


So maybe we Christians as a whole should just read our bibles, live our lives properly, and let the Holy Spirit be the boss.

My two sinning cents.

Hear hear....very good point.

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by fourgivn1


Hear hear....very good point.

But in some way are we not obligated (2pepe) to talk about it.

Divine commision and all that?

Awfully tough to be a good witness with a self imposed gag order on the subject.

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by Damn True


But in some way are we not obligated (2pepe) to talk about it.

Divine commision and all that?

Awfully tough to be a good witness with a self imposed gag order on the subject.

Look at it this way True. Jesus said "Don't cast your pearls before swine lest they trample them underfoot and turn on you to tear you to pieces." In other words, don't try and force it down someones throat if they don't want to hear it, because it will fall on deaf ears and they will just become hostile towards you, as I'm sure you've already noticed.

This is why I don't pipe up much about my beliefs, because it is abundantly clear that no one hear wants to hear about it, and many are even hostile towards it. If someone asks, I will pipe up. If they don't want to hear it, I will shut up. Just my 0.02

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by Damn True


But in some way are we not obligated (2pepe) to talk about it.

Divine commision and all that?

Awfully tough to be a good witness with a self imposed gag order on the subject.

It could be the method and not the message...

I don't feel compelled to 'talk about it' at all. Debate is kind of fun but I really think to be honest with ones self each man must find his own way. The herding thing simply drives them away and creates resentment. I cannot select the proper path for anyone but myself and, even then – how can I be so certain that it's the right path, the only path???

How many roads lead to heaven? Is heaven here on earth already for some but not others? Is my heaven someone else’s hell? Is everyone who thinks and acts differently than I going to hell?

DT: Some people may be taking offense to your methods rather than your message. While you may not actually put it in words some of your posts suggest that your way is the only way, not much room is left for others. Say a non 'believer' lives his life the in a decent in honest way, he causes no harm to others and does much good for humanity. Will he still go to hell just because he does not believe? I wonder. :Confused:

fourgivn1: You handle itself is controversial to some. It's so cut and dry - how do you know you have been forgiven? Sure, the bible says so, but isn't advertising the fact false pride? When I first saw the name I was taken aback and felt the urge flame but I didn't... no reason to really. To me the name seemed so arrogant and presumptuous - reading your posts I know that is not your intent so I never flamed. I woulda though - I like a good squabble!

 

[jncarpenter]

Originally posted by Damn True


But in some way are we not obligated (2pepe) to talk about it.

Divine commision and all that?

Awfully tough to be a good witness with a self imposed gag order on the subject.

I think sometimes we truly believe that communication is limited to words......................but to quote Paul's reference, we truly ought to be living epistles READ of all men. We are not always speaking, but we are always communicating a message.

I agree with your zeal DT, many believers are missing it, but I like to think of an unbelievers attention like TV "air time". We have to "purchase" their viewing time by earning their respect/ interest/ inquiry & trust God to lead us if more is necessary. If you feel like the Holy Spirit is urging you to speak, than may no man interfere, but if not, it could truly be YOU interfering with His work. You can't force the unwilling to eat. God doesn't need a qualified defense.........only a willing & humble servant . The problem I see is many Christians are delivering a message & they lack His IMAGE (we are destined to be conformed to His image (love) in this life). In other words, if we "preach" the word to others more than we meditate in it & apply it to ourselves, something is amiss. The scale should swing decidedly towards the latter.

Anyway......my $0.02

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
It could be the method and not the message...
I don't feel compelled to 'talk about it' at all. Debate is kind of fun but I really think to be honest with ones self each man must find his own way. The herding thing simply drives them away and creates resentment. I cannot select the proper path for anyone but myself and, even then – how can I be so certain that it's the right path, the only path???

Very good post! I have no problem with each man finding his own way. I think that a lot of people think that Christians sorta get 'browbeaten' into believing, or that they succumb to peer pressure, so to speak. I know they certainly are out there, but that doesn't mean NONE of us select our own path. Just because my path, more or less, happens to be parallel to those who happen to claim the world's biggest religion as their own, doesn't mean I was forced to believe. In all honesty, when I started asking questions, my dad, who has studied it for a long time, said "Well, I'll tell ya son, I believe Christianity is the right way to go, but it doesn't mean you have to follow that." I asked why he figured it out, and he recommended a few books for me to read, research type books, as well as some other books. I didn't just go to a youth rally, scream "Save me Jesus!" and think that was it for me. I've been on this 'spiritual journey' for at least 10 years, and it will stop the day I die.

However, I will say that no one at all should be browbeaten into believing anything. As one of my friends said once, "God doesn't want to force us to believe, because God is love; and because of that, He has no choice but to give us a choice."

How many roads lead to heaven? Is heaven here on earth already for some but not others? Is my heaven someone else’s hell? Is everyone who thinks and acts differently than I going to hell?

I won't sit around and tell people where they're going, but I wanted to point something out. I've spent a LOT of time studying my religion (and this is not a claim to be an expert on religion - CLEARLY I'm not), and I believe in it because I personally believe it is the 'path' with the most merit, for me. This being said, of course I'm going to follow the tenets/rules/regulations of my religion to the best of my ability. (I fail regularly....all Christians do, and probably all believers in all other religions fail to live up to the standards of their religion on a regular basis as well.) I can't do otherwise. THIS being said, it is sort of unfair to say (and people have at times) that it's arrogant of me to think that my way is the only right way, and all others are going straight to hell in a breadbasket, and they're all wrong. How CAN I think otherwise? I have MUCH MUCH more respect for any Muslim or Hindu or Mormon or Catholic who KNOWS what they believe and why, and can argue it, than others, because at least they are doing what I do - sticking to my religious 'guns.' *L* I may not be perfect, but at least I will never stop believing in what I do, and I'll never stop asking questions and seeking answers.

fourgivn1: You handle itself is controversial to some. It's so cut and dry - how do you know you have been forgiven? Sure, the bible says so, but isn't advertising the fact false pride? When I first saw the name I was taken aback and felt the urge flame but I didn't... no reason to really. To me the name seemed so arrogant and presumptuous - reading your posts I know that is not your intent so I never flamed. I woulda though - I like a good squabble!

Addressing the issue of my name: In all honesty, it is EXACTLY the opposite way around. First, again, since I believe with all my heart that my religion, my 'path', is the right one for me, I of course have to follow the rules/regulations of it, and it goes without saying that I believe it is the 'right' religion. Again, it's not fair to say that because I believe that, I'm 'arrogant.' I just believe it is fact. (No, not a fact proven in a PRSJ, Toshi. ) I chose that as my name because I'll regularly forget exactly how much His sacrifice meant (to me), and get caught up in the daily grind, and then I'll read a passage in a book of the Bible, or my wife will do something nice for me, that just hits me right THERE, and makes me remember just what it means, all over again. My name is a reminder, to me, that the only reason that I'm going to heaven (or so I believe ) is because I am 'fourgivn' *LOL* and not through any personal merit or achievement.

 

[Serial Midget]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Now, I wonder what Damn True has to say...

 

[BOZ]

Man what a great website...just finished reading this thread..
What is interesting here is that some of us are so distant from one another..in our beliefs..locations yet we are all reading from the same site...plus I would rather read this then clean my dishes,laundry food shopping,vacuming..man my house is a wreck.

time well spent..

 

[dg806]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
WOW! Ridemonkey.com almost killed Damn True!!!

I am glad you are ok, DT.

For everyone bickering at Damn True for thanking God he is alive, don't read the post if you don't like it. Cripes, the guy almost died and you're bitching about him mentioning Jesus in a thread.

Good point Baboon! Let's see who they call on if they ever find themselves in the same situation.

 

[dg806]

Originally posted by fourgivn1


As one of my friends said once, "God doesn't want to force us to believe, because God is love; and because of that, He has no choice but to give us a choice."

Can you imagine what it would have been like dying on a cross for someone you loved, at the same time being beaten by many that hated you? Would you give your only Son to die for someone else's sins? I am sure if I had been the only one in the world to believe, Jesus would have still carried that cross for me! Sometimes it takes a tragic event for most people to realize this, but I know once it does, you will never be the same!

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by dg806



Can you imagine what it would have been like dying on a cross for someone you loved, at the same time being beaten by many that hated you? Would you give your only Son to die for someone else's sins? I am sure if I had been the only one in the world to believe, Jesus would have still carried that cross for me! Sometimes it takes a tragic event for most people to realize this, but I know once it does, you will never be the same!

So, are you a Christian?

Sorry, just being funny. *L* I'm guessing yes.

 

[dg806]

Originally posted by fourgivn1


So, are you a Christian?

Sorry, just being funny. *L* I'm guessing yes.

Yes...but it's hard. I have a temper and I have to bite my mouth many times! ANd being conservative today, Is hard also! Point in fact...the Charlotte Observer is now going to start taking same sex wedding info and print it in the paper!! Bunch of D*** idiots!!
See what I mean?

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by dg806


Yes...but it's hard. I have a temper and I have to bite my mouth many times! ANd being conservative today, Is hard also!

Dude, join the club. You can't really tell on this board, because I keep my posts respectable (and it's tough....I've experienced pretty much everything from being told I'm 'wrong' to being accused of spouting religious propaganda by people who misunderstood me and spoke before they thought about what I said. I'm used to it by now. But in real life, I get REAL sarcastic. I have found, however, that when talking to corporations or customer service departments, tightly controlled sarcasm coupled with a good memory of what happened (or notes ) can do a LOT of good.

 

[Serial Midget]

I miss the war in Iraq already and revisited this thread for some good old fashioned RM drama... not quite the same feeling 8 months later.

 

[Damn True]

Hmmm,

I haven't had a grilled cheese sandwich in a while.

 

[patconnole]

Man, cool story..... er, scary! Glad you survived that.

Last time I had that feeling was a week ago, when I went off a latter drop too slow, flipped over, and dove head first into the ground. Luckily, I didn't have time to bask in the "what a way to go" stage of the fall as it happened so quickly. Could have broken my neck so easy. All I saw was a bright flash (when my head hit) and then I was just sitting there hunched over, trying to catch my breath. "is my bike ok?" Priorities.


Did you finish the sandwich?

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by Damn True
Hmmm,

I haven't had a grilled cheese sandwich in a while.

Good threads never die... try some green chilis and keep that camera ready...

 

[partsbara]

yeah yeah yeah

jesus built my hotrod

 

[N8 v2.0]

I ride a couple of hill climbs in which I talk to Jesus...

:devil:

 

[N8 v2.0]

Originally posted by patconnole
Man, cool story..... er, scary! Glad you survived that.

Last time I had that feeling was a week ago, when I went off a latter drop too slow, flipped over, and dove head first into the ground. Luckily, I didn't have time to bask in the "what a way to go" stage of the fall as it happened so quickly. Could have broken my neck so easy. All I saw was a bright flash (when my head hit) and then I was just sitting there hunched over, trying to catch my breath. "is my bike ok?" Priorities.

I hooked my bar ends on a small tree on a flat stretch of trail while cranking at 12-14 mph... I was ejected, spun 180 degrees and landed on the back of my head anout 10 feet from where my bike stopped. I broke my helmet and dazzed myself for a couple minutes...

Then I checked my bike rode back to my truck and got another helmet and finished the ride.

Scared me afterwards though...

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by Damn True
Hmmm,

I haven't had a grilled cheese sandwich in a while.

OK True... step away from the sandwich...

No sudden moves, or we take your Katsup.
Who eats GC with Katsup anyway?

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by partsbara
yeah yeah yeah

jesus built my hotrod

dude I love that tune!

 

[partsbara]

ministry... old school rules once again

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by dg806
Yes...but it's hard. I have a temper and I have to bite my mouth many times! ANd being conservative today, Is hard also! Point in fact...the Charlotte Observer is now going to start taking same sex wedding info and print it in the paper!! Bunch of D*** idiots!!
See what I mean?

Yeah, god forbid that people different than you get to see their names in the paper when they get married.

Must be tough for you man, I feel for you...

 

[laura]

that picture, you just had to revive the thread with one of the most disgusting pictures in it. thanks a lot.

 

[slein]

d.t. my parents have the same dishes. what happened to the other half of the sandwich? did you finish eating your meal? how far did the projectile go?



i've done the heimlich, and it ain't fun to have done on you. although ridemonkey.com is not important, we're glad you're okay.

PEACE be with you - all

 

[Ranger]

Servus!

Ridemonkey Re-runs! I do believe I have seen it all....

Speaking of "spirited debate", can anyone dredge up some of Zonic's greatest hits? No one could argue for so long without coming to a point like he could!

Needless to say, I'm still glad True continues to be with us.

Parting shot - Jesus Saves - but I bet he gets better interest rates than we do.

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by Ranger
Parting shot - Jesus Saves - but I bet he gets better interest rates than we do.

Well considering His dad is The Man, I'd think so.

 

[Serial Midget]

The thread that made DamnTrue a living legend.

 

[Changleen]

DT was always a bit weird. This thread has helped me realise why.