[DRB]

So where does the US go from here?

Pull out now?

No its where does the White House and Congress, which are both controlled by the GOP, go from here. At present the 60% of Americans think that its being mismanaged. They are the ones that have to develop the strategy and then implement it. Its what they signed up for, or here is a good 'ole GOP term, its their moral responsibility.

If they don't the public is going to evicerate them in the mid terms.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

So where does the US go from here?

Pull out now?

Well, for one thing we could actually have a discussion about that instead of labeling all those who have differing opinions as traitors or un-American.

We probably can't just pull out, but we could put more troops on the ground and do things right. We could have a president that admits that mistakes were made and works to correct them instead of burying his head in the sand and yelling, "I'm not listening. I made no mistakes. We will stay the course no matter what!"

 

[N8 v2.0]

This is Face the Nation last Sunday:

Bob Schieffer says, "Democrat Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, he takes a very different view, Senator Kerry. He says basically that we should stay the course, because he says real progress is being made. He says, 'This is a war between 27 million Iraqis who want freedom and 10,000 terrorists.' He says we're in a watershed transformation. What about that?"

JOHN KERRY: I don't agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is, you've got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment; you've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis, and there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the -- of -- of -- of -- historical customs, religious customs, whether you like it or not. Iraqis should be doing that. And after all of these two and a half years, with all --

Let's see how this play out....

There's so much... I'm sorry I even have to play this buffoon for you, but he's assumed the position of official Democrat Party spokesman on this. He's putting himself out there, so we have to deal with it. There's so much wrong with this. You've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis? What's been going on the last year and a half that he hasn't noticed, number one. Number two: "After all these 2-1/2 years and all the talk of 210,000 people trained, no excuse for not transferring more of that authority"? What are we in the process of doing? All these people are trying to do is get ahead of something that is already happening so they can take credit for it. But this business that US soldiers are terrorizing Iraqi women and children, you now, if you doubted John Kerry during the 2004 presidential campaign, if you doubted anybody, the Swift Boat Vets, if you doubted anybody about him, you shouldn't now. It is clear what he thinks of the US military. His view is common throughout the Democratic Party. The only Senate Democrat who sounds like FDR or Truman right now, is Joe Lieberman. You've got the likes of John Kerry and Dick Durbin now echoed by Harry Reid and Ted Kennedy as the voice of the modern Democratic Party, which despises the US military and feels no compunction whatsoever to characterize them as terrorists.

 

[fluff]

Well you've just about shown Limbaugh to be a dick. No surprises there then..

 

[N8 v2.0]

Well, for one thing we could actually have a discussion about that instead of labeling all those who have differing opinions as traitors or un-American.

We probably can't just pull out, but we could put more troops on the ground and do things right. We could have a president that admits that mistakes were made and works to correct them instead of burying his head in the sand and yelling, "I'm not listening. I made no mistakes. We will stay the course no matter what!"

I think neither one of your comments is reality.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Well, for one thing we could actually have a discussion about that instead of labeling all those who have differing opinions as traitors or un-American.

We probably can't just pull out, but we could put more troops on the ground and do things right. We could have a president that admits that mistakes were made and works to correct them instead of burying his head in the sand and yelling, "I'm not listening. I made no mistakes. We will stay the course no matter what!"

I left out the charge that all those who disagree hate the military. Thanks for reminding me N8.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Well you've just about shown Limbaugh to be a dick. No surprises there then..

Only because you are not smart enought to see both sides of the equation.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I think neither one of your comments is reality.

Um, what world are you living in?

Dick Cheney is STILL trying to claim that Saddam had ties to terrorists. Nope, they didn't make any errors there.

Rumsfield is STILL in his position. Nope, he's never made any errors in judgement.

Our policy on torture was changed so that so-called enemy combatants would not be covered and we had problems at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and who knows where else. Nope, no problems there.

Lately, it's been the president going on the offensive to attack democrats for flip-flopping on their support. Something like, 'They supported the war before with all the intelligence, now they don't. We have to stay the course, otherwise the terrorists win.' Truth is that the intelligence given to the dems. in Congress was redacted versions of the full intelligence that the pres. saw. Nope, no problems there.

 

[fluff]

I think neither one of your comments is reality.

Why??

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Only because you are not smart enought to see both sides of the equation.

Why don't you educate us unsmrt people then?

Did we find WMD?
Did Saddam have ties to Al Qaeda?
Have we spread democracy to Iraq?
Whatever happened to Osama?
Whatever happened to Afghanistan?
Are we behind on our goals to train troops and rebuild the infrastructure of both countries?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Um, what world are you living in?

Dick Cheney is STILL trying to claim that Saddam had ties to terrorists. Nope, they didn't make any errors there.

Rumsfield is STILL in his position. Nope, he's never made any errors in judgement.

Our policy on torture was changed so that so-called enemy combatants would not be covered and we had problems at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and who knows where else. Nope, no problems there.

Lately, it's been the president going on the offensive to attack democrats for flip-flopping on their support. Something like, 'They supported the war before with all the intelligence, now they don't. We have to stay the course, otherwise the terrorists win.' Truth is that the intelligence given to the dems. in Congress was redacted versions of the full intelligence that the pres. saw. Nope, no problems there.

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.

 

[fluff]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.

You've got to be kidding.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.

Would that good reason be the part where Bush ignored what the intelligence estimates said? Would it be the part where he made stuff up (Yellowcake in Niger)? Would it be the part where we pulled the UN inspectors out without letting them do their jobs because Bush was getting an itchy trigger finger and was worried that troop morale may be low if we don't let them blow stuff up?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Why don't you educate us unsmrt people then?

Did we find WMD?
Did Saddam have ties to Al Qaeda?
Have we spread democracy to Iraq?
Whatever happened to Osama?
Whatever happened to Afghanistan?
Are we behind on our goals to train troops and rebuild the infrastructure of both countries?

How about this N8, what WAS our rationale for going in there?

 

[Reactor]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.

Unfortunately the "good reason" was the .1% of the population withheld and contradicting intel, and selectively feed the rest just the most favorable and tantalizing tidbits. They trusted the administration, which since has been shown untrustworthy, to put it mildly.

 

[Westy]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.

let's be honest N8. Whether they beleived it or not most of the Dems would have voted against giving Bush the ability to invade Iraq on partisan reasons alone but the environment after 9/11 was such that anyone not voting with the president on security issues would have been lynched as un-american. The Dems were too chicken **** to make a stand then and too chicken **** to admit that is why they voted the way they did in the first place. I doubt anyone voted to give Bushy invasion power because they thought it was the right thing to do.

Edit: There were plenty of people in the world that didn't go for the pre-war intel, that is why things never got through the Security Councel and why and other than the Brits no other country gave any real military support.

 

[DRB]

Let's see how this play out....

That's what Bush as been saying. That isn't a plan.

 

[N8 v2.0]

let's be honest N8. Whether they beleived it or not most of the Dems would have voted against giving Bush the ability to invade Iraq on partisan reasons alone but the environment after 9/11 was such that anyone not voting with the president on security issues would have been lynched as un-american. The Dems were too chicken **** to make a stand then and too chicken **** to admit that is why they voted the way they did in the first place. I doubt anyone voted to give Bushy invasion power because they thought it was the right thing to do.

So, in a way, they are far worse than Bush...

 

[Westy]

So, in a way, they are far worse than Bush...

Depends on what you think is worse, being stupid and powerless or stupid, powerfull, dangerous and get caught with your dick in the mashed potatoes?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

So, in a way, they are far worse than Bush...

Perhaps for being cowed by charges of un-Americanism, but Bush is far more culpable for not only breeding and inflaming that atmosphere, but also for trumping up the evidence against Iraq.

 

[fluff]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.

How do you explain the huge ant-war protests around Europe (including Bush's chief ally and co-liar Blair's state) and the refusal of the UN to sanction the invasion?

 

[DRB]

get caught with your dick in the mashed potatoes?

You are not coming to Christmas dinner.

 

[Reactor]

Depends on what you think is worse, being stupid and powerless or stupid, powerfull, dangerous and get caught with your dick in the mashed potatoes?

If it were a pop-tart instead of mashed potatoes there would be impeachment proceedings......

 

[Westy]

Depends on what you think is worse, being stupid and powerless or stupid, powerfull, dangerous and get caught with your dick in the mashed potatoes?

Actually most of congress probably voted as their constituency probably wanted. Seeing as thought there was popular support for the bill of goods Bush was selling if you really wanted to finger point it would have to be at the American people as a whole.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Actually most of congress probably voted as their constituency probably wanted. Seeing as thought there was popular support for the bill of goods Bush was selling if you really wanted to finger point it would have to be at the American people as a whole.

Who were whipped up into a righteous rage by false claims made by the White House.

 

[N8 v2.0]

How do you explain the huge ant-war protests around Europe (including Bush's chief ally and co-liar Blair's state) and the refusal of the UN to sanction the invasion?

Meh.. eurolibs can always be counted on to protest just about anything... especially if it involves the US. I remember them protesting Regean too... of course now the soviets union doesn't exist any more.

 

[Reactor]

Meh.. eurolibs can always be counted on to protest just about anything... especially if it involves the US. I remember them protesting Regean too... of course now the soviets union doesn't exist any more.

In large part because of some very special intelligence Ronnie obtained before going to Iceland. He knew the Soviet Union was on the verge of collapse and the military was broken and near revolt. He used the intel to force concessions from the USSR that ultimately lead to it's downfall. There was a lot that went on behind the scenes.

Before you site Regan as paragon, you should realize the current terrorism crisis is largely due to actions he and Bush the older took.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Meh.. eurolibs can always be counted on to protest just about anything... especially if it involves the US. I remember them protesting Regean too... of course now the soviets union doesn't exist any more.

Ad hominem.

 

[fluff]

Meh.. eurolibs can always be counted on to protest just about anything... especially if it involves the US. I remember them protesting Regean too... of course now the soviets union doesn't exist any more.

And the UN? And your dumb 99.9% statement?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I think 99.9% of the world believed the pre-invasion intel and with good reason.

Didn't Hans Blix say that HE didn't think Iraq had WMD?

 

[N8 v2.0]

And the UN? And your dumb 99.9% statement?

The UN?

 

[fluff]

Didn't Hans Blix say that HE didn't think Iraq had WMD?

Yeah, but what would he know?

And then had his character assasinated.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

The UN?

Yeah, good idea. Make fun of the organization THAT WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG.

 

[Westy]

Yeah, good idea. Make fun of the organization THAT WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG.

The UN sucks, it undermines the right and authority of a sovereign country to make really stupid decisions.

 

[Slugman]

Only because you are not smart enought to see both sides of the equation.

"Pot calling kettle black" award of the year goes to N8

 

[reflux]

"Pot calling kettle black" award of the year goes to N8

It must be fun for N8 to be so naive...

 

[Westy]

It must be fun for N8 to be so naive...

His avatar, of a child’s toy, shows his naiveté.

 

[N8 v2.0]

His avatar, of a child’s toy, shows his naiveté.

No way!

 

[Westy]

No way!

Way.

trollbot

 

[LordOpie]

Serious props to N8 for both participating in the conversation and holding ground against many attackers.

Seriously.