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Just had a conversation with a Forest Service person

Freak

...............................................
Aug 15, 2001
3,728
0
Redmond, Washington
Well, a few of us were up at 38, and the Forest Service lady showed up, and basically kicked us off of the trails.

She was fairly nice, and a mtn biker herself, but she's getting pressure from higher ups.

So here's what she told us.

1. They will be posting signs stating that the trails are illegal.

2. They will start with warnings, then start to fine people that they catch. The fines could be anywhere from $100 - $5,000. I believed her on this one as she had just finished fining some people mudding in 4WD's.

3. She wants us to spread the word about 38, so here is the info.

The funny thing is she told us we should just go to Canada to ride...

Oh well, another place getting shut down. I guess they don't realize that more trails are just gonna get built once they force people away from 38.

Life goes on!! Time to move to Canada!
 

ioscope

Turbo Monkey
Jul 3, 2004
2,002
0
Vashon, WA
So sad, and I never got the chance to ride it.
I have that dumb graduated license thing to deal with.
Yeah, build elsewhere.
Going somewhere remote might help.
There are 5x the mileage of FS roads in the US as freeways.
 

Velocity Girl

whack-a-mole
Sep 12, 2001
1,279
0
Atlanta
DBR X6 RIDER said:
Much sadness.:(
One can only wonder if the posting of directions on mtbr and dirtworld led to this.
I doubt it. The Forest Service has known about 38 and other trails off of the exits for a loooong time now....I guess they are just now going to enforce them.
 

NateH

Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
438
0
like thats gonna stop anyone, there are ways to ride up there without being in any risk of a fine anyway, tippy-top to gate anyone? :)
 

DBR X6 RIDER

Turbo Monkey
Velocity Girl said:
I doubt it. The Forest Service has known about 38 and other trails off of the exits for a loooong time now....I guess they are just now going to enforce them.
True, true. It's not like they were out of plain view for all nearby to see. A pity all the same - especially considering I'll have a new rig to roll this week.

Somebody somewhere please legalize building and riding trails!!:mumble:
 
Jan 24, 2004
475
0
Duthie
Wow. Those are some hefty fines. Hmmm? What to do?? I heard saying something like they might want to work with us on this. Maybe JVP knows something.
 
Jan 24, 2004
475
0
Duthie
My best guess is to give it a cooling off period. They'll be all gung ho initially and then like all Gov't projects, will fall to the wayside. I'm sure there's a big memo going around to address the 'Renegade' bike trails as of late. It's been there so long, why all the sudden a change? They must be bored. Wait till the fire season starts. No green trucks in site, i'd bet.
-cb
 

oly

skin cooker for the hive
Dec 6, 2001
5,118
6
Witness relocation housing
now we need another person along with the shuttle driver.... A decoy in a broken down truckwith radio, blocking the road to give everyone enough time to get off the trails....
 

cove rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 8, 2004
1,331
0
no where important
everytime you go up you could just have somebody in yer group park there car across the road. so nobody can even get up their. but then you would probably get fined for that too
 

NateH

Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
438
0
Ya, anyone who wants to ride with me, craven, bill, dick binenya, phil ashio, ben dover and some others is more than welcome ;)
 

Freak

...............................................
Aug 15, 2001
3,728
0
Redmond, Washington
Bullitrider said:
Has anyone tried contacting the Forest Service or DNR about this?
I got contact info from the Forest Service person, and was going to try and talk with them today
 

seand

Monkey
Nov 22, 2003
790
0
seattle
:( this is bad news. i am hoping this is a scare tactic in preparation for the super dry summer that is coming. i wonder if the higher ups want to put pressure on bikers for a few months and then go lax on it...38 has been around forever, would be a bloody shame to see it vanish overnight :(

peeler and two sev seem okay for right now *holds breath*...

when walking the line that is going to be our trail, I ran into a forrest person who gave me some guidelines on where to punch out and where not to punch out...kinda like a "your trail can stay alive as long as you...." i gave the guy super big thanks and he smiled and said "i look forward to riding here". always nice when someone with some power is part of the community :)

some group really needs to get freeriding/dh legalized and accepted...and soon. FR/DH is quickly becoming skateboarding in the 80s. time to make up some shirts/jerseys/stickers "freeriding/dh'ing is not a crime"

le sigh...

I just got a call from a friend yesterday morning letting me know he was putting a trail up by tippy-top and he was super stoked...i guess this means his plans are thwarted? :( poor guy.
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
seand said:
i gave the guy super big thanks and he smiled and said "i look forward to riding here". always nice when someone with some power is part of the community :)
This is the solution, all you guys need to go get jobs with the forest service.....
 

seand

Monkey
Nov 22, 2003
790
0
seattle
Skookum said:
This is the solution, all you guys need to go get jobs with the forest service.....

i would love to work for dnr/forest services...the amount of time we spent walking rattlesnake, we could be volunteer workers :)
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
0
North of Oz
:( sucks! I'm learning tho that CA is the place to go for FR - but not the place to go for XC - WA has so many awesome XC trails, epic adventures, afternoon play-places...
 

Velocity Girl

whack-a-mole
Sep 12, 2001
1,279
0
Atlanta
seand said:
:( this is bad news. i am hoping this is a scare tactic in preparation for the super dry summer that is coming. i wonder if the higher ups want to put pressure on bikers for a few months and then go lax on it...38 has been around forever, would be a bloody shame to see it vanish overnight :(

peeler and two sev seem okay for right now *holds breath*...

when walking the line that is going to be our trail, I ran into a forrest person who gave me some guidelines on where to punch out and where not to punch out...kinda like a "your trail can stay alive as long as you...." i gave the guy super big thanks and he smiled and said "i look forward to riding here". always nice when someone with some power is part of the community :)

some group really needs to get freeriding/dh legalized and accepted...and soon. FR/DH is quickly becoming skateboarding in the 80s. time to make up some shirts/jerseys/stickers "freeriding/dh'ing is not a crime"

le sigh...

I just got a call from a friend yesterday morning letting me know he was putting a trail up by tippy-top and he was super stoked...i guess this means his plans are thwarted? :( poor guy.

One can only hope it's a scare tactic. If they are posting signs though (didn't actually see 'em, just what she said she was out there to do) then the "but I didn't know" defense doens't work quite so well anymore. The threat of a $100 or so fine is one thing....a fine that costs as much (or more) than my bike....that's a bit scarier. She said the biologist is having a cow over the erosion/run off problems/cut trees/etc. (except I haven't seen any trees cut down for the trails????) so who knows where the "pressure" is really coming from??? :(
 

trailhacker

Turbo Monkey
Jan 6, 2003
1,233
0
In the hills around Seattle
I ran in to a lady up there once that was an official of some sort, she had long dark hair and was in a white Cherokee. This was about 2-3 years ago and she was flying off the handle because we were riding "closed" trails. She said they had posted signs saying such, but they had been torn down. No one I ever talked to had ever seen any signs? I think someone would have said something to me if they had.
About the same time I ran into a couple of USFS guys that were actully walking up the trails getting a look at what was there. One guy I had seen and talked to before and another older guy that I took to be higher up than him. I had a pretty long conversation with them. The gist was that they were at a point where they had to officialy recognize that the trails existed. I asked if this meant closing the trails and they said not necessarily. They suggested we should stop building, but said they weren't asking us not to ride what already existed. The older guy said their biggest concern was people building things and then abandoning them (I took this to mean stunts) and people building an exsessive amount of trails
I also talked to a lady from the state that was driving a truck up, then down the John Wayne trail. She said the only issue she had with the trails was where we crossed the JW trail. She thought there was a potential for injuring someone riding on the JW when we came down to the trail. We asked her if we re-routed it, would she like that. She said yes and that is why the trail crossing behind the gate is the way it is now.
I also talked to a guy at Duvall the other weekend who was actively ticketing shooters and people on motorcycles. He said that the DNR was going to shut that place down and the were pretty upset about habitat destruction. I had talked to this guy before and he was very friendly and said there was no problem with us riding there. I think its possible the first time I talked to him, he didn't understand we were "trail" riding and thought we were riding on the roads.
What does this mean? Who knows. Until we get organized and start actively campaigning for access to areas like this we won't know anything until it happens, which will probably be too late to do anything about it.
 

Velocity Girl

whack-a-mole
Sep 12, 2001
1,279
0
Atlanta
It is hard when we get mixed messages because I've also been there when a Forest Service gal was up there and she merrily chatted with us and all she asked was that we don't block the gates. Now someone comes along with a different story....agreed that it would be nice to get organized and have some pull the way the BBTC does.
 

seand

Monkey
Nov 22, 2003
790
0
seattle
the charm of 38 (yes i said charm of 38...:) is the all natural aspect of it. i have never seen ONE sign of a cut down tree...i think that is a super bogus claim. If I am wrong, so be it, but I have never seen any reason to think I am wrong. I know there is a trail or two there with stunts on it and they could be referring to that, but even on the stunted trails, i have never seen someone make use of what would be a cut down tree...only deadfall.

for how much use 38 gets, id say its holding up quite well.

this whole thing has stirred the flutterbys in my stomach...id would HATE to see our trails starting to vanish :(
 

two1

Monkey
Dec 15, 2004
224
0
endub
trailhacker said:
What does this mean? Who knows. Until we get organized and start actively campaigning for access to areas like this we won't know anything until it happens, which will probably be too late to do anything about it.
Exactly, you have to go about it the right way in the first place, and get permission before you build. Why put a bunch of work into something just to have it taken away? There are lots of private land owners and usable DNR land. Now is definantly the time to act with DNR as there budgets are way down and they can generate more from within using legit trail builders hours. Dont be a trailhacker (no pun intended)!
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
seand said:
the charm of 38 (yes i said charm of 38...:) is the all natural aspect of it. i have never seen ONE sign of a cut down tree...i think that is a super bogus claim. If I am wrong, so be it, but I have never seen any reason to think I am wrong. I know there is a trail or two there with stunts on it and they could be referring to that, but even on the stunted trails, i have never seen someone make use of what would be a cut down tree...only deadfall.

for how much use 38 gets, id say its holding up quite well.

this whole thing has stirred the flutterbys in my stomach...id would HATE to see our trails starting to vanish :(
They have a large use problem up there. The cut down tree issue might not pertain to DHrs in general but it is probably on their list of problems up there.

I think I was at Dirty Ape when TrailHacker talked about rerouting the warm up trail onto the JW Trail. Problem is with warnings is you don't know if the next time you get the nice ranger of or the bad ranger. Nothing stops them from following DHrs back to their trucks and getting ID or just ticketing the truck/vehicle owners parked up there.

I was up there yesterday (driving the shuttle truck :devil: ) when she met up with us. She was also going after the people shooting, Wheeling, riding dirt bikes, etc. after she was done with us.

Trouble is if you get the bad ranger, and he is dead set on ticketing you, he will make sure you find your ID. Ignorance is not a defense....signs or no signs.
 
lets roit!! do it the way the activists do it, chain our sevels to dirt and roit then loot...then stick it to the man!! and lots of fires, that will show them we mean buisness!! oh and we need guns!!just in case...who wants to make the "magic cool aid" in case things go wrong?
 

seand

Monkey
Nov 22, 2003
790
0
seattle
its holding up better than spots on two seven..thats for sure...and it gets much more traffic than two seven. so someone is doing something right out there :)

this just makes my week suck more...and its only monday...WTF?!
 

two1

Monkey
Dec 15, 2004
224
0
endub
Snacks said:
Eh....It's holding up...but it has changed a lot in the past 3-4 years do to how much it gets used.
No way, you mean to tell me trails change after they get ridden? Wow!