Let's talk about why the concept of GOD makes no sense to me...
- Thread starter BurlyShirley
- Start date
those lounge pics are sweet...
I just about spit Gatorade all over my screen when I read this............LOLSkookum said:Ok who wants to place bet that Andyman will "save" Changleen and will grow to love George Bush Jr. and love America.300 to 1 odds.
If I was a bettin man, I'd bet on Chang..............
Since my story is rather involved, and it's late here, I'll post it tomorrow.Changleen said:
You can talk about aliens all you want Chang, I'm not sure I'll be able to speak intellegently on them..........well only the ones that gestate in your abdomen (sp?) and then bust out and have acid for blood.
Peace be with you..................
Silver said:
there is no freewill IMO. human mind is subject to its body. mind is the slave of the body...
we are all slaves of the electro-chemical events going in our brains-bodies, with very little room for movement within...
like when i took this pill i had never taken and i ended up in a hospital because i could not open my mouth..... there was no freewill there... my body (aka my brain thru the dopamine thingys the pills affected) had the ultimate word on my will... (btw am trying to be dumb here.)
yall gotta experiment with psychotropics.. they gave a whole new perspective and questions about freewill and the human mind...
So what would be the difference between a member of your postulated advanced species and God?Changleen said:
It's been a while since I read much science on the start of the universe (quantum realities bent my mind a little bit on a plane from Spain one time) but you are implying that time has a starting point. That begs the question of how it could be measured and identified and from whence did it appear?Changleen said:
Infinity is a concept that the human brain struggles with but it exists.
I'm not Andyman, but I believe in cats and dogs too.Changleen said:
It's funny to watch these discussions.
On occasion, they are very interesting, well thought out, and when Andyman gets involved, downright scholarly. Yet no matter how much logic is brought forth, how many text references, and all the good conversation in the world... You'll never bridge that "faith" gap.
Of course, it doesn't mean that they aren't educational discussions or shouldn't be had. It does mean, though, that all the different roads that are traveled down in these discussions all end at the same bridge - and for people like Changleen, the bridge is out. Andyman is on the other side, and nothing can be done; only some experience or leap on Changleen's part will change the situation.
Anyhow.. I'm interested in your story too, Andyman. I'm afraid I have little to add to these discussions which is why I don't participate, but I do read them with great interest!
On occasion, they are very interesting, well thought out, and when Andyman gets involved, downright scholarly. Yet no matter how much logic is brought forth, how many text references, and all the good conversation in the world... You'll never bridge that "faith" gap.
Of course, it doesn't mean that they aren't educational discussions or shouldn't be had. It does mean, though, that all the different roads that are traveled down in these discussions all end at the same bridge - and for people like Changleen, the bridge is out. Andyman is on the other side, and nothing can be done; only some experience or leap on Changleen's part will change the situation.
Anyhow.. I'm interested in your story too, Andyman. I'm afraid I have little to add to these discussions which is why I don't participate, but I do read them with great interest!
You can always just throw in useless gems like this.binary visions said:Anyhow.. I'm interested in your story too, Andyman. I'm afraid I have little to add to these discussions which is why I don't participate, but I do read them with great interest!
How come today when people claim to talk to god we call them nutjobs but many people base their lives off of people who claimed to speak with god a few thousand years ago. Is their really any difference?
No their isn'tWesty said:
, after all even the contemporary nutjobs sometimes get a following, no doubt even ancient history is littered with nutjobs who failed to convince anyone.A charismatic charlatan with an appealing message can get himself a long way.
Exactly, tiz a waste of time to seriously sit and ponder. No one knows, even those who say they know dont friggin know, just like burly doesnt know and I dont friggin know. We cant prove god and we cant disprove god. The concept of god is so abstract and so diverse... I'm willing to venture that God as a singular being doesn't exist. I think man/we by our own nature invented god because we couldnt explain the world around us nor could we accept the idea of nothingness. The only thing that makes any sense to me is that there is no heaven or no concious afterlife, when we die there is some kind of a total loss of self yet some part of you still exists in the universe... I dont know anything though, of course, and I dont claim anything and I wont follow anyone that says he/she knows anything because they dont. Maybe I'll be just gone when I die and it wont matter to me anyway because I wont be able to give a sh!t that my whole live was just a short ride in a universe who's point I'll never understand. Then again, maybe I'll see the pearly gates and those guys will flush me to hell for joining their club and then bailing on them when I couldnt wrap my fingers around their wacked out mumbo jumbo concepts and contradictory philosophies.Westy said:
This thread is
neaky:
I wouldn't say it is a waste of time to think about and I probably went to far in saying it shouldn't be discussed. Man has an built in need to find answers to things and we should look for those answers, but since you can never know what the true answer is it is the journey that makes it worthwile not the endpoint. Too many people just like to pull a boxed set of answers off a shelf and skip the journey, and most importantly take it all way too seriously.golgiaparatus said:Exactly, tiz a waste of time to seriously sit and ponder. No one knows, even those who say they know dont friggin know, just like burly doesnt know and I dont friggin know. We cant prove god and we cant disprove god. The concept of god is so abstract and so diverse... I'm willing to venture that God as a singular being doesn't exist. I think man/we by our own nature invented god because we couldnt explain the world around us nor could we accept the idea of nothingness. The only thing that makes any sense to me is that there is no heaven or no concious afterlife, when we die there is some kind of a total loss of self. I dont know anything though, maybe I'll be just gone when I die and it wont matter to me anyway because I wont be able to give a sh!t that my whole live was just a short ride in a universe who's point I'll never understand. Then again, maybe I'll see the pearly gates and those guys will flush me to hell for joining their club and then bailing on them when I couldnt wrap my fingers around their wacked out mumbo jumbo concepts and contradictory philosophies.
This thread is
Its because a lot of people take it way to personal. Someone showed them what to believe and made god a personal so they defend God like they would defend their mother. Also some people, I think, really get offended because they are afraid of an unknown/uncertain afterlife. I have no problem if someone bashes anything I have to say as long as they admit they have as much a grasp on the reality of their concepts as I do on mine, which is to say very little.Westy said:
As for the boxed answers... I hate that schitt. I wish people would think a little about the concept they follow, instead of just pulling out a book, quoting some verse, and acting like its the trump card.
Your right, its not a waste of time... its probably good for the brain I think to ponder these questions, and its kind of fun, but thats about it... Its not like we can change really anything about our ultimate fate... or can we
Hell, I'm not ruling anything out. I hope reincarnation is real, I want to get to choose what I can be though... can I be a bird of prey next time around, that shizz looks like fun. Or maybe a male lion so I can sit around all day having sex and eating food that my biches bring to me .
Ridemonkey said:
LOL.
My story, wow, I thought about that quite a bit last night after I got off here; how I would distill it down to what is pertinent on this thread. Hopefully this will be coherent and understandable.
First like Binary spoke of, this story will have more to do with faith than anything logical or scientific.
I grew up in a Christian home (Presbyterian) , my dad was a deacon and treasurer in the church, and we were there every time the doors were open. When I was 12 my dad left us, and I subsequently discovered he was an alcoholic, drug addict and had multiple affairs while married to my mom. I dont say that to run down my dad, I say that to frame my understanding of what it means to be a Christian. There was this fundamental disconnect with a persons beliefs and their actions. So for many years I dismissed the typical Christian notions of belief and faith.
During college I married a young woman whose family was rabidly Southern Baptist (does anyone see the irony here ..LOL). I saw the game they played on Sundays and then during the week I saw how they treated their children (my wife was abused by her father). So the perception that being a Christian as irrelevant for me grew even more.
Not long after we were married I started down the same path as my father (minus the drug use, I was a pilot at the time). This went on for years, and then as they say in the recovery movement where ever you go, there you are my junk caught up with me. I came face to face with the realization that I was turning into my father (who at the time I disliked immensely). My wife and I got separated, and I was as broke as broke can be (unbeknownst to me she ran up a huge debt), and dealing with a failed marriage, and the thought of turning out like my dad.
During this time, the lyrics to a song kept running through my head when one man lies he murders a part of the world, these are the pale deaths that men call their lives, cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home. So I would sit, night after night, in my 400 sq ft rat trap of an apartment with that song running through my head and thinking what is the point, why am I here, look at all the crap Ive done, this is not worth it. This went on for several months and got to the point where for about a week every night I drive around looking for a train to park in front of or a semi-truck to swerve into and end it all.
Then I met this girl (theres always are girl isnt there) she went to church, but she was normal. We went out for several months and she invited me to church. Really I didnt get much out of church. I did however get to have some conversations with a guy who really told me about what being a Christian was all about about a way of life. My response was also, God cant use me as messed up as I am and with all the junk Ive done. It was then I found out this Jesus loved me exactly as I was. Regardless of the junk I had in my life, my baggage or whatever. In evangelical circles this was my conversion experience.
Now I said all that to say this. I had been a Christian for several years (BTW I ended up marrying the girl that brought me to church and we now have a wonderful 7 month old son) and just floated along believing what my friends and pastor said about stuff. The thing is I started having these conversations at work, and on the Monkey (when I was just a chimp) where I seriously got my butt handed to me.
So I started to examine why I believe what I believe, not just what the pastor said, but why do I affirm that this or that is true. That is when I started to dig deep and research. It was then I discovered that this thing called Christianity was actually not the end all and not the point; and that God and Jesus were bigger than what we define Christianity as. I discovered that the Scriptures are not limited to only one meaning but are huge with depth and dimension and context these stories to me became real instead of just a fairy tale that floated out of heaven. The thought that these passages are describing real people in a real place in a real time totally changed how I view the Bible. My pursuit was to explore the Scriptures in intellectually credible ways. When I discovered what it meant for a 1st century Jewish rabbi to have disciples and what does it mean for us as Christians to be disciples it totally changed how I look at what it means to be a Christian.
For me this awakening has been both exciting and somewhat frustrating. Far too often I end up having to check my brain at the door when I listen to most pastors the thing is it doesnt have to be that way. So for the past year I have struggled with issues of whether or not to start my own church and stuff like that.
Anyway, I hope this mess make some sort of sense. I cant say that it answers the question of the hows and whys of God and His existence but this is my journey which BTW Im still on.
First like Binary spoke of, this story will have more to do with faith than anything logical or scientific.
I grew up in a Christian home (Presbyterian) , my dad was a deacon and treasurer in the church, and we were there every time the doors were open. When I was 12 my dad left us, and I subsequently discovered he was an alcoholic, drug addict and had multiple affairs while married to my mom. I dont say that to run down my dad, I say that to frame my understanding of what it means to be a Christian. There was this fundamental disconnect with a persons beliefs and their actions. So for many years I dismissed the typical Christian notions of belief and faith.
During college I married a young woman whose family was rabidly Southern Baptist (does anyone see the irony here ..LOL). I saw the game they played on Sundays and then during the week I saw how they treated their children (my wife was abused by her father). So the perception that being a Christian as irrelevant for me grew even more.
Not long after we were married I started down the same path as my father (minus the drug use, I was a pilot at the time). This went on for years, and then as they say in the recovery movement where ever you go, there you are my junk caught up with me. I came face to face with the realization that I was turning into my father (who at the time I disliked immensely). My wife and I got separated, and I was as broke as broke can be (unbeknownst to me she ran up a huge debt), and dealing with a failed marriage, and the thought of turning out like my dad.
During this time, the lyrics to a song kept running through my head when one man lies he murders a part of the world, these are the pale deaths that men call their lives, cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home. So I would sit, night after night, in my 400 sq ft rat trap of an apartment with that song running through my head and thinking what is the point, why am I here, look at all the crap Ive done, this is not worth it. This went on for several months and got to the point where for about a week every night I drive around looking for a train to park in front of or a semi-truck to swerve into and end it all.
Then I met this girl (theres always are girl isnt there) she went to church, but she was normal. We went out for several months and she invited me to church. Really I didnt get much out of church. I did however get to have some conversations with a guy who really told me about what being a Christian was all about about a way of life. My response was also, God cant use me as messed up as I am and with all the junk Ive done. It was then I found out this Jesus loved me exactly as I was. Regardless of the junk I had in my life, my baggage or whatever. In evangelical circles this was my conversion experience.
Now I said all that to say this. I had been a Christian for several years (BTW I ended up marrying the girl that brought me to church and we now have a wonderful 7 month old son) and just floated along believing what my friends and pastor said about stuff. The thing is I started having these conversations at work, and on the Monkey (when I was just a chimp) where I seriously got my butt handed to me.
So I started to examine why I believe what I believe, not just what the pastor said, but why do I affirm that this or that is true. That is when I started to dig deep and research. It was then I discovered that this thing called Christianity was actually not the end all and not the point; and that God and Jesus were bigger than what we define Christianity as. I discovered that the Scriptures are not limited to only one meaning but are huge with depth and dimension and context these stories to me became real instead of just a fairy tale that floated out of heaven. The thought that these passages are describing real people in a real place in a real time totally changed how I view the Bible. My pursuit was to explore the Scriptures in intellectually credible ways. When I discovered what it meant for a 1st century Jewish rabbi to have disciples and what does it mean for us as Christians to be disciples it totally changed how I look at what it means to be a Christian.
For me this awakening has been both exciting and somewhat frustrating. Far too often I end up having to check my brain at the door when I listen to most pastors the thing is it doesnt have to be that way. So for the past year I have struggled with issues of whether or not to start my own church and stuff like that.
Anyway, I hope this mess make some sort of sense. I cant say that it answers the question of the hows and whys of God and His existence but this is my journey which BTW Im still on.
Good stuff there Andyman. Glad to see things turner around for ya. I have to say I really respect your view on religion, and your the first person I could say this to. Most "faithfull" people I talk to are mainly concerned with drilling their beliefs into my head.
Yes, That is correct. Current theory states that time and space are in fact one and the same, two directions on the same plane if you want to think of it in 2 dimensions. That is why you have probably heard it referred to as Spacetime, or the Spacetime continuum. This part of the argument is pretty much beyond doubt, it has much measurable evidence to back it up. The second part is fairly well accepted, but still open to question: Spacetime (as we know it) only existed after the big bang (which there is ever increasing evidence for) - what is not really that well known, obviously, is what happened before the big bang. That's where we might find our 'god' or whatever.fluff said:
Yeah Golgia, thinking about this stuff is fun. Especially when you read about quantum physics and spend ages trying to get your head around thinking in 4 (or 11/12) dimensions. It's very humbling and fulfilling at the same time.Westy said:
Wow, That's an amazing story Andy. Sounds like you went through a borderline crazy stage there for a while, but well done for getting it together again. I'm glad you're still around so the can benefit from your input. (How selfish.)
Maybe you should start your own church. Your idea of 'god' (from what I've read at least' seems somewhat different to the classic beardy angry white guy, which I suppose is positive. I just hope you keep exploring, and maybe explore some science at some point. I don't think your idea of god is 100% incompatible with 'hard science' - there's certainly a lot of 'unknown' space out there. Plenty for a non-vengefull beardy white guy anyway.
Thanks for the story.
can benefit from your input. (How selfish.)Maybe you should start your own church. Your idea of 'god' (from what I've read at least' seems somewhat different to the classic beardy angry white guy, which I suppose is positive. I just hope you keep exploring, and maybe explore some science at some point. I don't think your idea of god is 100% incompatible with 'hard science' - there's certainly a lot of 'unknown' space out there. Plenty for a non-vengefull beardy white guy anyway.
Thanks for the story.
Thanks Chang for your kind words, I appreciate the tone of the discussion we have had on this thread.Changleen said:Wow, That's an amazing story Andy. Sounds like you went through a borderline crazy stage there for a while, but well done for getting it together again. I'm glad you're still around so the
I will say as time goes on the more I struggle internally with the whole startin the whole church thing. I want to make sure I'm doing it for the right reasons and not so I can have an ego trip every Sunday with people telling me how good I am. I think, unfortunatly I'm going to bump into a "glass ceiling" of sorts with the fact I've not been to seminary (which curiously rhymes with cemetary......LOL).Changleen said:
As for God sitting in heaven with a beard and lighting bolts waiting to zap people, that's certainly not a concept of the Judeo/Christian God I know and study.
Thanks again Chang for the encouragement.
Andyman_1970 said:
That's cuz Zeus already has that gig and does it with style....
Quit thinking about the Judeo Christian God and think about God as a concept and your advanced species looks no different. Stop thinking in straight lines for Advanced Specie's sake!Changleen said:Advanced species never came here and laid down any moral laws, parted any seas etc, and doesn't give a **** about you or your insignificant, pointless life.
Within the life of this universe yes, but outside of that? And we will never find 'god'. We will theorise but we can never prove, unless of course you invent time travel that goes beyond the start of time...Changleen said:
god is a imaginary friend for adults....thats all....but i belive in a higher power it makes me sleep better at night knowing some one else is in control..cause I sure as hell am not
it makes me sleep better at night knowing some one else is in control..cause I sure as hell am not
It's what you're doing. The thread title even has the word concept in it you knucklehead!Changleen said:
And in the other thread I was talking to N8 you gnat-brained chav!
Good. Now go back to your room.Changleen said:
And take that baseball cap off!
Has anyone here (Andy, especially) ever read "Flatland?"
Light, easy read. Looks like it's cheap, too. Pick it up or read it at the library. It's not really a religious book at all; frankly, it's all about science and human conceptions, but it's about the limitations of our knowledge and our paradigms of thinking. I find it, in a way, to be a good expression of what I've been trying to express about how we can never know God, as finite beings ourselves.
I think, though, that I've found where Andy and I differ, and it's simply rooted in his acceptance of and faith in the Torah as divine... I think the idea that we are created in God's image, or are somehow special from, separate from, or elevated above other living things and the environment we live in, is simply wrong, and an artifact of *human* vanity. The rabbi Andy mentions sounds a lot like a Buddhist question/answer... "What is the Buddha?" a student asks. "A dried ****-stick!" (used toilet paper of ancient Asia) screams back the teacher. God is indeed manifest everywhere, and we're not unique. God is as much in/around/a part of us as he is anything else. Also see Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance if you dare... [paraphrased from memory] "The buddha resides as comfortably in the gears of a motorcycle or an electronic circuit as he does in a lotus flower."
Yeah, whaddaya want? It was the 70s...
But that's why I don't see God as a super-being with an aspect of agency, in that God 'does' things...I see God 'as' the totality of our environment, I guess.
MD
Light, easy read. Looks like it's cheap, too. Pick it up or read it at the library. It's not really a religious book at all; frankly, it's all about science and human conceptions, but it's about the limitations of our knowledge and our paradigms of thinking. I find it, in a way, to be a good expression of what I've been trying to express about how we can never know God, as finite beings ourselves.
I think, though, that I've found where Andy and I differ, and it's simply rooted in his acceptance of and faith in the Torah as divine... I think the idea that we are created in God's image, or are somehow special from, separate from, or elevated above other living things and the environment we live in, is simply wrong, and an artifact of *human* vanity. The rabbi Andy mentions sounds a lot like a Buddhist question/answer... "What is the Buddha?" a student asks. "A dried ****-stick!" (used toilet paper of ancient Asia) screams back the teacher. God is indeed manifest everywhere, and we're not unique. God is as much in/around/a part of us as he is anything else. Also see Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance if you dare... [paraphrased from memory] "The buddha resides as comfortably in the gears of a motorcycle or an electronic circuit as he does in a lotus flower."
Yeah, whaddaya want? It was the 70s...But that's why I don't see God as a super-being with an aspect of agency, in that God 'does' things...I see God 'as' the totality of our environment, I guess.
MD
E
enkidu
Guest
Skookum once wrote eloquently: (http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1266622#post1266622)MikeD said:
"i really like how you present one God, for truly if there is a Creator there is only one and many different ways to view and celebrate these mysteries.
Only when people realize that we all come from one people, and that we all worship the same God and that religion and beliefs are merely a gift of enabling us to live more fuller lives, but not exclusive but just options or alternative individual and/or cultural paths to enlightment. Only then will the "world" see God.
Basically everyone has their own way, people are killing not for God but the are killing for their beliefs.
You might see me bash religion but truly i appreciate it's existance and honor the people who try to enhance their spiritual selves. But i hate how religions dominate and try to extinguish other beliefs, it's truly sad."
I'll check it out..........thanks.MikeD said:
When I first skimmed this post, I thought Mike was referring to me as "The rabbi Andy", I was whoa dude you're gonna give me an ego problem........LOLMikeD said:
E
enkidu
Guest
As finite beings ourselves we may never fully know God, but as a part of the totality of God's manifestation through environment, nature and history we may have a glimpse of what the nature of God is.MikeD said:
For example, when Andyman closed his 02-02-2005, 07:08 PM post above with "Peace be with you..................", he was evoking the long human tradition of Peace offerings. The quest for the ultimate peace (of mind, between people, and among nations) and love (unconditional acceptance) is the basic theme of various religions. Can we safely assume that the ultimate peace and love, together with ultimate beauty, truth and goodness, are at the core of the nature of God?
By the way, "Shalom" (Hebrew) and "Salaam" (Arabic) are preceded by ancient Sumerian "Silim-ma" (3000 BC - 1800 BC). Patriarch Abraham grew up in ancient Mesopotamia around 1800 BC hearing this greeting of peace, health and wholesomeness used by the common ancestors of Jews and Arabs. Another manifestation of God, perhaps, pointing to the oneness of humans. (In ancient mythical texts this can be written as "Thus God created Adam.")
Can I get an "AMEN"...............yes you sure canenkidu said:
Very well said grasshopper. The meaning and depth of the word "Shalom" in the Hebrew has so had an impact on the spiritual journey of not only myself but my wife as well we named our son Noah - which in Hebrew means "Shalom".enkidu said:
I don't claim to be a philosopher, but I do know it doesn't make sense to have to DIS-prove assertions of truth or Truth or whatever. The burden of proof has to fall on the positive assertion, which, in this case is "there is a God". I think, humbly, that "Leap of Faith" is just a simplistic way of saying that science/knowledge has not caught up to the belief/theory being postulated.
Anyway, I followed your story, and I am really happy that you have turned your life around. I am happy for you, especially about the baby. Congrats, I have three I found that the quote below is the point in the story where you completely lost me. Why must there be a higher pupose? Why must I be of use to God, Jesus, or anyone else? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I can accept that. Seems to me, a lot of people just make up the answers, or accept one of the stories that's already been made up, for comfort from chaos. Also sounds a little like, "daddy love me" syndrome, but I am not a trained psychiatrist either.
I don't mean to offend anyone here, I'm just trying to be as open and frank as I can. Maybe I am way off base...?
Anyway, I followed your story, and I am really happy that you have turned your life around. I am happy for you, especially about the baby. Congrats, I have three
I found that the quote below is the point in the story where you completely lost me. Why must there be a higher pupose? Why must I be of use to God, Jesus, or anyone else? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I can accept that. Seems to me, a lot of people just make up the answers, or accept one of the stories that's already been made up, for comfort from chaos. Also sounds a little like, "daddy love me" syndrome, but I am not a trained psychiatrist either. I don't mean to offend anyone here, I'm just trying to be as open and frank as I can. Maybe I am way off base...?
Andyman_1970 said:
Binary Visions I think summed up the differences better than I can:bmxr said:
Anyway, my story was not an effort for me to convince you to believe as I do, it was a response to a request by Changleen. So as such feel free to agree or disagree with it.
Why must there not be a higher purpose?bmxr said:
According to the Bible you could be used of God and not realize it.bmxr said:
Everyone uses that cop-outChangleen said:
Show me how billions and billions of years of random matter floating around the universe forming complex ecological systems and evolving the human brain out of single-celled organisms by random genetic mutations is a simpler explanation than the existance of God.
Occam's Razor shouldn't even be brought up in theological discussions. I don't believe in Creationism but that doesn't mean that the reason it's wrong is because of Occam's Razor.
You still need to explain "God." When you add God, you take a very complex system and add an infinitely complex layer on top of it. Since you're postulating an infinitely complex being, why not just postulate that chance takes care of it and be done with it?binary visions said:Everyone uses that cop-out
Show me how billions and billions of years of random matter floating around the universe forming complex ecological systems and evolving the human brain out of single-celled organisms by random genetic mutations is a simpler explanation than the existance of God.
Occam's Razor shouldn't even be brought up in theological discussions. I don't believe in Creationism but that doesn't mean that the reason it's wrong is because of Occam's Razor.
There are many good explanations about how the argument from incredulity doesn't work.
Personally, I don't think that Occam's razor is the best explanation of why I don't think there is a higher being...the lack of evidence is more than sufficient for me, and the problem of evil makes a benevolent God even less likely in my view. There is an allure to it, though, I must admit.
You've also failed to comprehend the reference. Read it again:binary visions said:Everyone uses that cop-out
Show me how billions and billions of years of random matter floating around the universe forming complex ecological systems and evolving the human brain out of single-celled organisms by random genetic mutations is a simpler explanation than the existance of God.
Occam's Razor shouldn't even be brought up in theological discussions. I don't believe in Creationism but that doesn't mean that the reason it's wrong is because of Occam's Razor.
Andy said:
For there to be a higher purpose for everyone all worked out, there has to be something even more complex than "billions and billions of years of random matter floating around the universe forming complex ecological systems and evolving the human brain out of single-celled organisms by random genetic mutations" - Namely the plot for all these lives and their every interaction. Not just a bit more complex, but massivly more so.Me said: