I've been doing some research on Runner's Advantage containing liquid creatine, among other things. Has anybody tried this stuff? All the reviews I read were raving about it and how it reduces lactic acid build-up and speeds recovery times. 
Liquid Creatine for endurance athletes?
- Thread starter monkeywrench
- Start date
I used to use Creatine back when I did a lot of weight lifting. It worked great for that purpose and did speed recovery from a hard weight workout. All the studies I have seen regarding Creatine and endurance or training have showed no significant benefit to using Creatine. I haven't tried using Creatine for cycling training myself so I don't have any first hand knowledge of if it works.
Where these reviews in magazines which contain ads for creatine?
No, I thought of that too. They were from an unbiased site.
From what I have read, some liquid creatines do work, some do not. You just need to do your research. Creatine eventually breaks down into creatinine (waste material) after sitting in liquid for about an hour, so I don't see how liquid creatine could work (manufacturers claim it's a "new and improved" kind a creatine, but I don't believe it). I've always stuck to the powder myself, and everyone I know who uses creatine says the powder works about a hundred times better than the liquid at a fraction of the price.
As far as it's impact on endurance training, I agree with Captain Cogset's statement that it does not help too much for endurance training. I do not use creatine during MTB season because I get cramps when I use creatine and perform cardio exercise (side cramps and leg cramps). During the winter months, I use creatine to help with the weight training, and I've been using it on and off for about five years now.
Just my two cents, me being a guy who weight trains, mountain biking, uses creatine regularly, and has done plenty of reading on creatine.
As far as it's impact on endurance training, I agree with Captain Cogset's statement that it does not help too much for endurance training. I do not use creatine during MTB season because I get cramps when I use creatine and perform cardio exercise (side cramps and leg cramps). During the winter months, I use creatine to help with the weight training, and I've been using it on and off for about five years now.
Just my two cents, me being a guy who weight trains, mountain biking, uses creatine regularly, and has done plenty of reading on creatine.
Cytomax..........
Cytomax...
Good stuff and helps with endurance
Cytomax...
Good stuff and helps with endurance
I am a weight lifter and train about 3 times a week.I use liquid creatine before my workouts and I can tell a little difference.Nothing to write home about.I believe if you are getting an edge no matter how small its something.There are so many products out there who believes what?
The only negative thing Ive discovered about creatine are the muscle cramps( especially hamstrings).That is not fun and it always happens to me in the middle of the night.I started drinking twice as much water and eating a lot of bananas, they've gone away.
I dont think creatine does anything for aerobics, but Im not an expert.This is all from my personal expirience.
The only negative thing Ive discovered about creatine are the muscle cramps( especially hamstrings).That is not fun and it always happens to me in the middle of the night.I started drinking twice as much water and eating a lot of bananas, they've gone away.
I dont think creatine does anything for aerobics, but Im not an expert.This is all from my personal expirience.
Creatine is not a good supplement to increase aerobic endurance. It can help built power, and allow you to perform better when you hit your anaerobic threshold, however, so aerobic athletes (mountain bikers especially) can benefit from training with creatine as long as they know what to expect.
Creatine super-saturates your cells with water, which caused the cramping in Tim's case. All the water in his body was absorbed into his cells leaving too little for his basic functions. Drink A LOT of water all the time if you begin taking creatine in any form. Bananas may help too, but increased water is the key.
Creatine super-saturates your cells with water, which caused the cramping in Tim's case. All the water in his body was absorbed into his cells leaving too little for his basic functions. Drink A LOT of water all the time if you begin taking creatine in any form. Bananas may help too, but increased water is the key.
Studies which looked at endurance exercise failed to show any benefit of creatine compared to placebo. In fact one study, which measured running performance over a 6 km course, found slower times in the creatine supplemented group. This effect is possibly related to the weight gain (mean 1 kg ) associated with creatine use. Since the creatine-ATP system is not used by endurance athletes, the weight gain is "dead weight" -- it adds nothing to moving the athlete forward. Instead, the extra weight makes the athlete less efficient.
The key to understanding creatine supplementation is to appreciate that it only helps with certain activities. A basic review of what creatine is, and how it is used in the body will help you understand how supplementation might be beneficial.
Muscle cells generate mechanical work from an energy liberating chemical reaction -- ATP is split into ADP and P (phosphate). ATP can be used by muscle cells very quickly, but there is only an extremely limited supply -- usually only enough for a few seconds of high intensity work. When the ATP is gone, work stops. Fortunately, the body has several ways to convert ADP back to ATP. The fastest method is to move the phosphate group off of phosphocreatine and onto ADP. This yields ATP -- which is immediately available for muscular work -- and creatine. There is enough phosphocreatine to keep ATP levels up for several more seconds. So at this point we've moved from 2 - 3 seconds of all-out work (ATP) to almost 10 seconds (ATP + creatine). The body can recharge creatine back to phosphocreatine, but this takes time (approximately 30 - 60 seconds). This ATP + creatine system makes up the fastest component of the anaerobic system, and is most used by power athletes. A good example is trench warfare in football (i.e., 6 seconds of all out force, followed by 45 seconds of standing around).
Aerobic endurance athletes, such as distance runners and triathletes, represent a much different picture from power athletes. Their levels of ATP and phosphocreatine don't change during exercise because ATP is generated at the same rate it is used -- a "pay as you go" mechanism. Aerobic generation of ATP, via oxidation of glucose (and fats), is slower than by anaerobic systems, but the fuel supply is enormous. Aerobic athletes train their muscles differently, and indeed the muscle tissue itself is different from power athletes. Type I muscle fibers are known as "slow-twitch" because they have a slower speed of contraction than type II fibers ("fast-twitch"). Slow twitch fibers have less glycolytic capacity, but increased mitochondria, myoglobin, and aerobic enzyme pathways.
Thus, "slow twitch" athletes cannot generate the speed and force of their "fast twitch" cousins, but they can do their thing for a long time. If an endurance athlete needs to dip into the anaerobic range, for a sprint or hill climb, the needed extra energy primarily comes from anaerobic glycolysis of glucose (yielding lactic acid, and that wonderful muscular "burning" sensation.). The ATP-creatine system is not important for endurance athletes.
Creatine supplementation, in the dosages commonly used, results in urinary concentrations that are 90 times greater than normal. The long term effects of this have not been investigated, but there is possibility for a variety of nephrotoxic, i.e., kidney damaging, events. There is potential for direct toxicity on renal tubules where urine is formed, and for acceleration of kidney stone formation. Recently, a baseball player for the Houston Astros was determined to have suffered from dehydration, kidney stones, and transient kidney damage as the result of creatine supplementation. Additionally, the deaths of 3 collegiate wrestlers are being investigated to determine what role creatine supplementation may have played.
The bottom line is that no one can confidently state that prolonged creatine supplementation is safe, and its use would best be avoided until more data can be compiled. Prolonged administration is, in essence, an uncontrolled toxicity study and one which might yield harmful results. Is it worth the risk? Remember, it's your body!
Source: Mark A. Jenkins, MD
http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/creatine.html
The key to understanding creatine supplementation is to appreciate that it only helps with certain activities. A basic review of what creatine is, and how it is used in the body will help you understand how supplementation might be beneficial.
Muscle cells generate mechanical work from an energy liberating chemical reaction -- ATP is split into ADP and P (phosphate). ATP can be used by muscle cells very quickly, but there is only an extremely limited supply -- usually only enough for a few seconds of high intensity work. When the ATP is gone, work stops. Fortunately, the body has several ways to convert ADP back to ATP. The fastest method is to move the phosphate group off of phosphocreatine and onto ADP. This yields ATP -- which is immediately available for muscular work -- and creatine. There is enough phosphocreatine to keep ATP levels up for several more seconds. So at this point we've moved from 2 - 3 seconds of all-out work (ATP) to almost 10 seconds (ATP + creatine). The body can recharge creatine back to phosphocreatine, but this takes time (approximately 30 - 60 seconds). This ATP + creatine system makes up the fastest component of the anaerobic system, and is most used by power athletes. A good example is trench warfare in football (i.e., 6 seconds of all out force, followed by 45 seconds of standing around).
Aerobic endurance athletes, such as distance runners and triathletes, represent a much different picture from power athletes. Their levels of ATP and phosphocreatine don't change during exercise because ATP is generated at the same rate it is used -- a "pay as you go" mechanism. Aerobic generation of ATP, via oxidation of glucose (and fats), is slower than by anaerobic systems, but the fuel supply is enormous. Aerobic athletes train their muscles differently, and indeed the muscle tissue itself is different from power athletes. Type I muscle fibers are known as "slow-twitch" because they have a slower speed of contraction than type II fibers ("fast-twitch"). Slow twitch fibers have less glycolytic capacity, but increased mitochondria, myoglobin, and aerobic enzyme pathways.
Thus, "slow twitch" athletes cannot generate the speed and force of their "fast twitch" cousins, but they can do their thing for a long time. If an endurance athlete needs to dip into the anaerobic range, for a sprint or hill climb, the needed extra energy primarily comes from anaerobic glycolysis of glucose (yielding lactic acid, and that wonderful muscular "burning" sensation.). The ATP-creatine system is not important for endurance athletes.
Creatine supplementation, in the dosages commonly used, results in urinary concentrations that are 90 times greater than normal. The long term effects of this have not been investigated, but there is possibility for a variety of nephrotoxic, i.e., kidney damaging, events. There is potential for direct toxicity on renal tubules where urine is formed, and for acceleration of kidney stone formation. Recently, a baseball player for the Houston Astros was determined to have suffered from dehydration, kidney stones, and transient kidney damage as the result of creatine supplementation. Additionally, the deaths of 3 collegiate wrestlers are being investigated to determine what role creatine supplementation may have played.
The bottom line is that no one can confidently state that prolonged creatine supplementation is safe, and its use would best be avoided until more data can be compiled. Prolonged administration is, in essence, an uncontrolled toxicity study and one which might yield harmful results. Is it worth the risk? Remember, it's your body!
Source: Mark A. Jenkins, MD
http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/creatine.html