Local Teams

SuspectDevice · Jun 29, 2011

I've been on every side of the situation you're describing.
You can simply chalk it up to the fact that bike racers(and sponsors) are crazy and then move on.
It ain't good for the brain, what y'all do.

golgiaparatus · Jun 29, 2011

ire said:
I know many of you ride for local teams and I had a situation happen and I was wondering if it's happened to anyone else. After last cross season my team folded, so I was out looking for a new team. I had three preliminary offers and one of the team owners and I came to terms through Facebook messaging and then had a follow up verbal conversation. I raced cross for them last season, and just recently I've been in discussion with a team that I really wanted to ride for. I came to terms with the new team so I sent a nice letter to my current team letting them know that I would be changing teams effective August 1st and that I appreciated the chance to ride for them. Things went downhill from there.

They asked for the items back I was given as part of our written deal. I politely told them no and that wasn't the deal. The guy who runs the team (who was not the one I negotiated, that was the owner) sent a nasty gram calling me a dick. I sent over the original agreement and he said he didn't care. He has a PhD, but maybe it was too much to ask for him to understand that written agreements are binding. Then he "unliked" the Facebook page for me (didn't know that was possible) and unfriended me. I guess it's an I'm breaking up with you, you're not breaking up with me situation. Anyone else had drama when changing local teams? I had a feeling it might not go well, and it turns out I was right.

We have a team around here like that. The owner is a nice guy unless you race for him, then he becomes a dick. Especially if you fraternize with "the enemy".

What does he want back from you?

Heidi · Jun 29, 2011

That sucks that they are taking it personally. I've never had that happen to me but I imagine you aren't alone. Lots of teams get taken advantage but it sounds like you were totally in the right and fulfilled your duties.

-dustin · Jun 29, 2011

Hm...I can think of 3 local P1 teams and the riders all have to give back their bikes (as they're owned by the shop that is sponsoring the team). Surprised that was left out of the agreement.

You have a fan page on FB?

CBJ · Jun 29, 2011

Nobody wants me on a team so I do not have to worry about this.

golgiaparatus · Jun 29, 2011

ire said:
The team has a fan page on FB, not I. The typical deal in this area is for frame+clothes, but they don't pay your way. The frame acts as payment instead of entry fees and travel expenses. Do the P1 teams pay the way of their riders?

I wish we had teams around here that would hand you a frame. That just doesn't happen. You might get a bike at cost and have a heavy discount at the shop, they might even hand you a kit or 2, but that'd be the end of it.

RUFUS · Jun 29, 2011

ire said:
I shouldn't kiss and tell The agreement was for a frame and two skinsuits. They asked for the frame back.

<edit>In hindsight I shouldn't have ever joined the team. The team is comprised of mostly B and C racers. The offer they gave was equivalent to the offers I had and they were a local team...so I went with them.

Rub your balls on the frame and he won't want it back. Worked for the skinsuits.

maddog17 · Jun 29, 2011

sounds like their feelings are hurt, probably feel you may have used them for the frame and skinsuits. but like in any sport, when the player can get a better deal and he's not under contract and he leaves why bitch? and the same goes for ownership who trade players at will if it helps their bottom line. sell the frame and blow it on lap dances!!

-dustin · Jun 30, 2011

ire said:
The team has a fan page on FB, not I. The typical deal in this area is for frame+clothes, but they don't pay your way. The frame acts as payment instead of entry fees and travel expenses. Do the P1 teams pay the way of their riders?

The 'elite' team that my shop sponsors gets to use a bike (CAAD10 4), given 2 kits + arm/leg warmers, shoe covers, vest. Riders buy hemet and shoes at deep discount. Most entry fees are covered. Free labor.

The other teams are set up similarly, as they have a little more sponsorship dollars.

SuspectDevice · Jun 30, 2011

Just to give you guys an idea what a well supported Elite team in New England gets-

-Frames/forks for each rider+2 (Free from manufacturer), 3 TT frames.
-2 pair bibs, 2 pair ss jersey, vest (free from manufacturer).
-Free glasses and helmets.
-Free nutritional products.
-Deeply discounted wheels.
-Dozens of free tires.
-Cockpit parts(free from manufacturer).
-Astoundingly inexpensive drivetrain parts(from manufacturer).
-All entry fees.
-All domestic travel(including a network of host houses and volunteer support staff).
-Subsidized international travel.

All hard goods remain the property of the team. Athletes have an option to buy at the end of the season. Management usually allows the riders to keep all of their gear as there is an expectation that the same level of sponsorship will be had next year.
The good teams also run development programs. Lots of the old gear gets handed down.

We have 3 or 4 teams with this level of support every year.

Over the last few years some of the teams have bounced between pro and amateur status depending on the amount of money they can secure from sponsors.

The contracts are simple- go to x amount of races, ride the **** we give you, don't be a dick and work hard. All that matters in the long run is that the team is winning races.

None of the sponsors are making their money back on these deals.
On each team there are usually 3 or 4 full-time athletes who are the "finishers" the other ~8-10 members have real jobs.

It's a **** done of work to run a strong program.
I feel like some riders miss that.

Heisenberg · Jun 30, 2011

SuspectDevice said:
Just to give you guys an idea what a well supported Elite team in New England gets-

-Frames/forks for each rider+2 (Free from manufacturer), 3 TT frames.
-2 pair bibs, 2 pair ss jersey, vest (free from manufacturer).
-Free glasses and helmets.
-Free nutritional products.
-Deeply discounted wheels.
-Dozens of free tires.
-Cockpit parts(free from manufacturer).
-Astoundingly inexpensive drivetrain parts(from manufacturer).
-All entry fees.
-All domestic travel(including a network of host houses and volunteer support staff).
-Subsidized international travel.

All hard goods remain the property of the team. Athletes have an option to buy at the end of the season. Management usually allows the riders to keep all of their gear as there is an expectation that the same level of sponsorship will be had next year.
The good teams also run development programs. Lots of the old gear gets handed down.

We have 3 or 4 teams with this level of support every year.

Over the last few years some of the teams have bounced between pro and amateur status depending on the amount of money they can secure from sponsors.

The contracts are simple- go to x amount of races, ride the **** we give you, don't be a dick and work hard. All that matters in the long run is that the team is winning races.

None of the sponsors are making their money back on these deals.
On each team there are usually 3 or 4 full-time athletes who are the "finishers" the other ~8-10 members have real jobs.

It's a **** done of work to run a strong program.
I feel like some riders miss that.

Sh!t. I should move.

CBJ · Jun 30, 2011

Mickey do you need a Park Slope team I am your man

James · Jun 30, 2011

ire said:
I can't imagine the amount of work that goes into securing all of those deals. It seems like a lot of bike companies are a pain in the a** to deal with. Would say cross or mtb teams in the area have the same kind of deal at the top end?

I would counter and say that a lot of bike racers and teams are a pain in the a** to deal with as well, having been on that side...dealing with the FLOOD of resumes, and presentations, and endless phone calls...
But it's still racing, and racing is fun.

Heisenberg · Jun 30, 2011

James - do you see a tangible benefit from heavy-duty elite sponsorship?

I know it makes a lot of sense for the local NRC elite team I'm with - we definitely drive a ton of business to the shop through sheer visibility and winning races. For the bigger companies that help out (mostly product), does it make sense? For a team that probably isn't ever going to be known beyond a regional sense, and isn't going to win even an NRC-level race, where's the putback?

-dustin · Jun 30, 2011

Heisenberg, mind telling us who you race for?

TortugaTonta · Jul 1, 2011

Heisenberg said:
James - do you see a tangible benefit from heavy-duty elite sponsorship?

I know it makes a lot of sense for the local NRC elite team I'm with - we definitely drive a ton of business to the shop through sheer visibility and winning races. For the bigger companies that help out (mostly product), does it make sense? For a team that probably isn't ever going to be known beyond a regional sense, and isn't going to win even an NRC-level race, where's the putback?

Interesting thing, I allways thought sponsering teams was a big waste of money because it certainly doesn't influence my spending.

However, the owner of the team a friend of mine works for used to sponser postal at $1,000,000 a year for a 2"x2" logo on the back of the jersey, basically got nothing. He decided to start his own team. They went to Australia last year for a stage race and when the quarterly earning reports came in there was a significant surge in their sales in Australia for that quarter. Basically they have seen a worth while revenue increase since they started their own team and their business has nothing to do with cycling.

TortugaTonta · Jul 1, 2011

Bissell

James · Jul 1, 2011

Heisenberg said:
James - do you see a tangible benefit from heavy-duty elite sponsorship?

I know it makes a lot of sense for the local NRC elite team I'm with - we definitely drive a ton of business to the shop through sheer visibility and winning races. For the bigger companies that help out (mostly product), does it make sense? For a team that probably isn't ever going to be known beyond a regional sense, and isn't going to win even an NRC-level race, where's the putback?

Well here's the thing, this was at a previous life at a US sales & marketing firm, so the really big-level, ProTour teams were handled by the parent companies, but we handled the US teams.
For us, it was more about the smaller, local teams, shop teams, bigger local teams, and these had to go through the shop. So it was about supporting the shop, who would then support us with retails sales of those products. Shoes, tires, and energy products, those were the ones people were crawling all over us for, especially shoes. A certain Italian brand.
The putback was increased orders from the local shops, which hopefully translated to more sales to consumers, which turns back into more orders from the shops. The local sales dude who is also a Cat 2, when asked by a customer what tires/shoes *he* rides, his answer is obvious, his team is sponsored by XX, and they're the best on the market, etc, etc, etc.

ire said:
Yeah, I can imagine racers are a PITA as well. Apparently I'm a d!ck to deal with It would seem that teams/riders that setup booths at the races and do more than racing would be the best investment for a sponsor. The end goal is to drive business to the company, and the two best ways would seem like good guys/gals that sell the products to other riders or teams that win high profile events (all speculation on my part...I'm a computer geek not a marketing guy).

I shudder when I think back to weeks spent in a room, with sponsorship proposals littering the floor, discussing/arguing with coworkers as we used up our meager sponsorship budget.
Exactly, has to create sales, not the bigger ProTour level stuff, but moving the needle on that territory's sales. We worked very closely with the local sales reps on choosing the best place for the dollars to be spent.

TortugaTonta said:
Bissell

That's funny, 1. because I bought a Bissell precisely because they sponsored a team, and 2. because we used to provide them with tires.

James · Jul 1, 2011

ire said:
Yeah, I can imagine racers are a PITA as well. Apparently I'm a d!ck to deal with It would seem that teams/riders that setup booths at the races and do more than racing would be the best investment for a sponsor. The end goal is to drive business to the company, and the two best ways would seem like good guys/gals that sell the products to other riders or teams that win high profile events (all speculation on my part...I'm a computer geek not a marketing guy).

And that isn't even to speak of my ex-coworker's experience as a liason to a certain ProTour team, just the insane and off the wall demands, expectations, it was insane. 300+ bikes and I KNOW that many were getting sold off to further fund the team, or given to VIPs from other sponsor companies, etc.
It was terrible, and would be funny if it weren't actually happening. Even though that company had sponsored the team since it's tiny beginnings, they were tossed aside the second "something better" came along, breaking contracts and burning bridges. Terrible people skills.

SuspectDevice · Jul 1, 2011

Heisenberg said:
Sh!t. I should move.

We've had lots of bike racing in the Northeast since the 1880's.
There are people running/funding teams/organisations started by their grandparents before the Depression when cycling was bigger than baseball.

A long history helps!

The Northeast is also where the USCF (and it's variously-named predecessors are from),VeloNews and the majority of frame builders over the last 100 years originated. We also consistently had immigrants from Europe, Australia and the Carribean where racing never really fell off the map.
Oregon was still wild country in the late 80's. Getting such a big head-start really gave us an advantage as it was easier to weather the post Black Friday dark ages of 1920 to the early 60's without have to invent the sport from scratch.

The Northeast Rules, the PNW drools!

Heisenberg · Jul 1, 2011

-dustin said:
Heisenberg, mind telling us who you race for?

Ehhh...maybe. Made the jump from 5-1 this season so still pretty fresh and looking to switch it up next season.

I'm terrified of moving to low elevation, otherwise I'd be out of UT like THAT (and my present employment is pretty radtacular for racing). The race scene here is...kind of paltry.

SuspectDevice · Jul 1, 2011

My town is gayer than your town.

-dustin · Jul 2, 2011

A local fellow was picked up by Bissell this year. Was cool watching him on the last stage of NVGP.

loco-gringo · Jul 2, 2011

James said:
And that isn't even to speak of my ex-coworker's experience as a liason to a certain ProTour team, just the insane and off the wall demands, expectations, it was insane. 300+ bikes and I KNOW that many were getting sold off to further fund the team, or given to VIPs from other sponsor companies, etc.
It was terrible, and would be funny if it weren't actually happening. Even though that company had sponsored the team since it's tiny beginnings, they were tossed aside the second "something better" came along, breaking contracts and burning bridges. Terrible people skills.

Funny...I really like lots of riders on said team, but hate what they did and refuse to support them because of this. And...I think their kits look stupid.

Wumpus · Jul 3, 2011

We should blame the Canuckistans.

James · Jul 3, 2011

ire said:
Sounds like your company is a poor loser That is one thing I have to give Armstrong credit for, the companies that stood by him during his darkest days he stayed with them through his career. That paid huge dividends for Oakley, Trek, and Nike.

I was gone by then, it was an unfortunate situation, not really any loyalty it seems, but they seem to be doing pretty well, the team anyway, especially today.

Yes, it was pretty cool of him to stick with those folks, Giro too. But we'll see if it ends up biting those companies in the ass...time will tell...

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