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Make mine Freedom - A cartoon on ISM

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
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Is there something wrong with worshiping God?
The video makes the argument that the 2nd Amendment doesn't protect beliefs that don't include God.

60s propaganda is awesome though.

edit: hurrrr first amendment
 
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curtix

Guest
The video makes the argument that the 2nd Amendment doesn't protect beliefs that don't include God.

60s propaganda is awesome though.
Modern day Socialist Propaganda is even better.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
Modern day Socialist Propaganda is even better.
There hasn't been much socialist propaganda since the collapse Soviet union

edit: typod above, meant 1st amendment. When it gets to freedom of religion, it says "to worship God in your own way", not "freedom to believe what you want".
 
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Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
I am not a delusional and I do not see anything wrong with people worshiping God. Please explain further.
As long as you don't see worshiping God as a rational act and realize that you are doing it out of faith, not out of reason, then I don't see it as delusional.

As a huge fan of different kinds of propaganda, where have you seen modern socialist propaganda?
 
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curtix

Guest
As long as you don't see worshiping God as a rational act and realize that you are doing it out of faith, not out of reason, then I don't see it as delusional.
Well whatever the person(s) foundation for worshiping God there is nothing wrong with it and does not make them less of a person. The notion that you posit that there could be anything wrong with it is utterly inexcusable. You can not qualify for a man what are "just" reasons according to you as to why he or she "worships" his or her God.
 
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curtix

Guest
As a huge fan of different kinds of propaganda, where have you seen modern socialist propaganda?
A lovely commentary on NPR on how the world should all have Universal ( love that term by the way ) Health Care provided by the government. The story tells the tale of a man who can get treatment here in the states for his new illness, he loses his job, sells his house, and so on,.... counter point - how a women in another country gets the care for the same illness for effectively free and basically the same day. They gave no counter example, as they rarely do on the NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO. Classic propaganda. No discussions of incomes, why medicare wouldn't approve him, no discussion on the taxes the other women pays. Its was truely brilliant.
Also they don't call it Propaganda - it gets labeled that later by those who can spot it.

Here is another good example I ran across recently - same type thing.
http://anti-strib.blogspot.com/2007/11/star-tribune-socialist-propaganda.html

The Government is not God, is not a hand out machine, is not there to solve all of your problems at the expense of freedoms.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
Well whatever the person(s) foundation for worshiping God there is nothing wrong with it and does not make them less of a person. The notion that you posit that there could be anything wrong with it is utterly inexcusable. You can not qualify for a man what are "just" reasons according to you as to why he or she "worships" his or her God.
If someone believes that worshiping God is a rational act, then it is fair to say that they do not understand rationality and logic.

Most religions are not rational, there isn't anything wrong with its inherent irrationality as long as the person worshiping accepts that it is irrational.

My argument is based on a couple things, that there isn't enough scientific evidence of God, therefore the 100% belief in God is irrational. I'm not making judgments based on irrationality or rationality, as I believe that a bit of irrationality is healthy.

I can qualify what is rational and irrational using science and logic, and from there determine if the worship of God is rational or irrational. I do not find irrationality bad, as long as it is a healthy amount.

Edit: Socialist is when the community owns all or most of the means of production, UHC is not socialist. Socialism has been warped in the U.S to mean anything leftist. Similar to how liberal has been warped to mean anything leftist and a "bad" word, when it actually means that individual liberty is the highest goal of the person.

Linking to blogs isn't proof of anything, please use reputable sources.

If you are going to refer to liberalism, socialism, communism, take the time to learn the words and concepts you are using.

Sweden is also probably what you would consider "socialist" yet they are much farther advanced in terms of human rights and equality than in the U.S.
 
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curtix

Guest
If someone believes that worshiping God is a rational act, then it is fair to say that they do not understand rationality and logic.

Most religions are not rational, there isn't anything wrong with its inherent irrationality as long as the person worshiping accepts that it is irrational.

My argument is based on a couple things, that there isn't enough scientific evidence of God, therefore the 100% belief in God is irrational. I'm not making judgments based on irrationality or rationality, as I believe that a bit of irrationality is healthy.

I can qualify what is rational and irrational using science and logic, and from there determine if the worship of God is rational or irrational. I do not find irrationality bad, as long as it is a healthy amount.
I do not agree here, I think there are vast amounts of evidence in favor of a belief in God. You are an atheist and that is of course fine. I do not agree with you but I don't think you delusional for that. This is actually a seperate discussion all together and not related to this OP.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
I do not agree here, I think there are vast amounts of evidence in favor of a belief in God. You are an atheist and that is of course fine. I do not agree with you but I don't think you delusional for that. This is actually a seperate discussion all together and not related to this OP.
What evidence is there in proof of God? There is only proof that we know very very little about the universe. I consider myself a (mostly) rational person, and if there is undeniable proof of God, I would love to publish it in a journal and get credit for it.
 
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curtix

Guest
Edit: Socialist is when the community owns all or most of the means of production, UHC is not socialist. Socialism has been warped in the U.S to mean anything leftist. Similar to how liberal has been warped to mean anything leftist and a "bad" word, when it actually means that individual liberty is the highest goal of the person.
Do you think the some Socialist country just woke up on day and just was Socialist. No it is a slow virus. Its slowly and methodically infects a nation and slowly makes that nation more and more dependent on the government for things it shouldn't be dependent on them for.

Linking to blogs isn't proof of anything, please use reputable sources.
Says you... So.... Ignore my evidence that will get you far...

If you are going to refer to liberalism, socialism, communism, take the time to learn the words and concepts you are using.
I know what Socialism is that's why I am here fighting it.

Sweden is also probably what you would consider "socialist" yet they are much farther advanced in terms of human rights and equality than in the U.S.
So move to Sweden and let the government here stand on the Founding Fathers Ideas that founded it and built it into the Greatest Nation in the World. I do not want to live in Sweden.
PS - In Sweden until 1999 People born there automatically became members of the "State Church". That a real good idea too, Go Sweden.


Lastly Would you say your a Pro-socialism?
 
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curtix

Guest

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
Very few people are religious in Sweden, it is a formality more than anything.

If a tire is broken on a bike, then you fix the tire, you don't buy a new bike.

Blogs aren't credible sources of information, they are as valid as opinion pieces.

Russia became socialist quickly after the revolution, not by a slow virus.

Sweden is becoming more neoliberal, so in Sweden's case, neoliberalism is the "slow virus" you refer to.

I don't think you know what socialism is, otherwise you wouldn't call UHC socialist. It isn't taking over the drug companies, it isn't taking over the hospitals, it is providing a subsidized insurance option for people that cannot afford it. The state wouldn't be removing any private companies, they are providing an option for people that otherwise wouldn't by covered insurance companies.

Those sites are so full of logical fallacies I don't even know where to begin.

edit: I'll be more specific, one is a blog, the other starts with the end already in sight, then works back to it. He uses assumptions that are not peer-reviewed and only make sense if your knowledge of space is very limited. If there is some hard science beyond assumptions that aren't peer-reviewed, please show me. The peer-review process is in place for a reason.
 
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curtix

Guest
Those sites are so full of logical fallacies I don't even know where to begin.

edit: I'll be more specific, one is a blog, the other starts with the end already in sight, then works back to it. He uses assumptions that are not peer-reviewed and only make sense if your knowledge of space is very limited. If there is some hard science beyond assumptions that aren't peer-reviewed, please show me. The peer-review process is in place for a reason.
Please start a new thread if you want to discuss this. But in the mean time - but in the mean time there has been lots peer reviewed. Here are a few.
1. “Investigating a General Biology” by John Bracht, Complexity 8(3):31-41 (2003) (critiquing models of self-organization for the origin of biological complexity)
2. “The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories” by Stephen C. Meyer, Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington 117(2):213-239 (2004) (explicitly advocating that intelligent design is the best explanation for the origin of biological information in the Cambrian explosion)
3. Michael Behe and David W. Snoke, “Simulating evolution by gene duplication of protein features that require multiple amino acid residues,” Protein Science, 13 (2004). (testing for irreducible complexity among protein-protein binding sites)
4. Jonathan Wells, “Do Centrioles Generate a Polar Ejection Force?,” Rivista di Biologia / Biology Forum, 98:71-96 (2005). (using explicitly ID assumptions to elucidate the behavior of centrioles—with potential applications to cancer research)
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
Can't find any information about John Bracht

On 7 September, the publisher of the journal, the Council of the Biological Society of Washington, released a statement retracting the article Meyer wrote as not having met its scientific standards and not peer reviewed.

Behe and Snoke have been debunked http://www.talkreason.org/articles/tiatd.cfm

Wells denied that HIV caused AIDS in 1991, so I wouldn't consider him a very rational person. His work, however, are peer-reviewed, but the article you mentioned is published by Rivista di Biologia, which is not a mainstream journal and has clear ties to the Discovery Institute, therefore I doubt its validity.
 

Defenestrated

Turbo Monkey
Mar 28, 2007
1,657
0
Earth
Its slowly and methodically infects a nation and slowly makes that nation more and more dependent on the government for things it shouldn't be dependent on them for.
So privatization makes the nation dependent on something better than the government?
 

jaydee

Monkey
Jul 5, 2001
794
0
Victoria BC
I am not a delusional and I do not see anything wrong with people worshiping God. Please explain further.
Samirol got the gist of it when he said:
As long as you don't see worshiping God as a rational act and realize that you are doing it out of faith, not out of reason, then I don't see it as delusional.
I can't understand the logic or emotion or whatever force it is that drives people to continue, in what is supposedly an enlightened age, to give offerings and credence to beings/things that are conspicuous only in the absence of any evidence of their having ever existed. You name the society you want to discuss, whether it be Confucians, Zoroastrians, Dogons, Muslims, Navajos, Christians, Jews, ancient Greeks and Romans with their pantheons of gods, Scientogists (er, maybe not them), they all created an elaborate scenario for creation and a reason for we humans to feel like there is someone out there looking out specially for us, as opposed to, say, looking out for the Pleiadians or Alpha Centaurians or blue whales. And he always looks out for a particular flavor of human, not those nasty other ones. And it's always a different scenario!

Maybe I'm thick, or I missed that day in Sunday school, but I don't get it. And it's not for lack of trying to understand it. I grew up in an Irish Catholic environment, but I escaped alive, maybe that explains it :hmm: , and I studied some theology in university, and I read extensively on religion and spirituality when I was young, but I'm completely happy with the insignificance of humans in the universe and don't feel the need to subscribe to a god thing who, by the way, would probably have given this whole experiment up as a bad idea long ago.

But don't take anything I say personally, I'm just a crusty curmudgeon and I slag atheism as heavily as religion. Agnosticism is where it's at. As the Jack Nicholson character says in The Bucket List, that way you can't lose. If there is a god, wow, what an unexpected surprise. If not, I told you so; the joke's on you.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
Making fun on the Christians Deity is a real class act.

You should admit that you are a Pro-Socialism and be done with it.
It is making fun of supply-side economics and greed, read the 2nd to last panel.

I'm not a socialist or pro-socialist and I'm not anti-religion. I'm a social democrat, which is considerably different as it is much less radical and is proven to work.
 
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curtix

Guest
It is making fun of supply-side economics and greed, read the 2nd to last panel.

I'm not a socialist or pro-socialist and I'm not anti-religion. I'm a social democrat, which is considerably different as it is much less radical and is proven to work.
Proven to work where?
Serious question.
 

Plummit

Monkey
Mar 12, 2002
233
0
Interesting to see someone (Curtix) so absolutist in support of Supply Side Economics while the financial markets are paying the price for "over-enthusiasm" during a period of serious deregulation... To the point where many wall streeters and even McCain are calling for more regulation....
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
Interesting to see someone (Curtix) so absolutist in support of Supply Side Economics while the financial markets are paying the price for "over-enthusiasm" during a period of serious deregulation... To the point where many wall streeters and even McCain are calling for more regulation....
The libertarian response to a market in serious trouble due to deregulation is that it isn't deregulated enough :crazy: