[Udi]

Meh, I haven't noticed any undue wear on the big alu cog on my XX1/X01 cassettes.

That's because it's the biggest one, more teeth = wear spread over larger surface area. I think X01 / XX1 cassettes are the most ideal, because they save weight through their actual design, which means only the largest cog has to be alloy. They cost more because they're superior, and the cassette as a whole lasts longer.

As for the Shimano gear I don't agree, but to each their own and I think it's good to have options. As it stands they are a clear 2nd-place-getter, fine for XT, but not the role of the flagship (XTR) product IMO.

 

[HAB]

That's because it's the biggest one, more teeth = wear spread over larger surface area. I think X01 / XX1 cassettes are the most ideal, because they save weight through their actual design, which means only the largest cog has to be alloy. They cost more because they're superior, and the cassette as a whole lasts longer.

As for the Shimano gear I don't agree, but to each their own and I think it's good to have options. As it stands they are a clear 2nd-place-getter, fine for XT, but not the role of the flagship (XTR) product IMO.

I certainly agree that the machined Sram cassettes are pretty impressive as a manufacturing exercise, and that all else (weight) being equal, more steel cogs is better. That said, I know more than one person who has cracked an XX1 cassette, separating the cogs between I think 2nd and 3rd gears before the cassette wore out. Nothing is perfect, and while in principle more steel is better, I've gotten very even wear out of m9000 cassettes for the exact reason you stated- the bigger cogs are softer, but that wear is spread over more teeth, so it kind of evens out.

I also appreciate that Shimano offers more than 1 choice of cassette gearing, unlike Sram (at least within their 11 and 12 speed ranges). There's no reason that that should be one size fits all.

 

[Udi]

Yeah fair call @HAB, like you said nothing's perfect.
I think the M9000 cassette is nice (I'd rock it) but it doesn't offer enough range for most others. Using a standard freehub was a cool bonus there too. I just think with this lineup, releasing a clearly inferior flagship product even after the competition has released theirs is a joke.

I actually wish Shimano would provide stronger competition, because as it stands, SRAM (drivetrain) is just a higher-end product (both price and weight / performance), and in the end weak competition means less options for the consumer. Another freehub standard (for better or worse) is a no-thanks from me too.

 

[Jm_]

M9000 did go to further lengths to increase the number of gears on carriers to minimize scoring. I run one on one of my winter setups. But the lengths they had to go to to make something with less gear range than shimano at a significantly heavier weight just showed how far ahead SRAM has been. Lest we forget where 1x came from in the first place.

I’ve gradually phased out to XD drivers on most of my setups and I’ll be that way going forward for sure, the next thing is to phase out my shimano brakes.

 

[Electric_City]

DT Swiss has already stated that microspline will be available as a freehub only aftermarket upgrade for many of their hubs.

I wonder if DT will fuck us like they do with their higher POE "upgrade" where they sell a $600 hub with 18 POE. Then you can pay another $120 to "upgrade" to a 54 POE.

 

[jonKranked]

Lest we forget where 1x came from in the first place.

downhill bikes?

 

[jonKranked]

M9000 did go to further lengths to increase the number of gears on carriers to minimize scoring. I run one on one of my winter setups. But the lengths they had to go to to make something with less gear range than shimano at a significantly heavier weight just showed how far ahead SRAM has been.

are you sure you don't mean sram?

 

[Jm_]

are you sure you don't mean sram?

That’s what I meant. There’s no way to keep it all straight anymore.

 

[Jm_]

downhill bikes?

Just because I climbed mine doesn’t mean it was a good idea.

 

[roflbox]

Just because I climbed mine doesn’t mean it was a good idea.

but if it was electric, then it would be

 

[Dogboy]

That's because it's the biggest one, more teeth = wear spread over larger surface area.

Well duh, obviously. The top 3 (alu) cogs on the XTR are 39-45-51 (compared to the 42t cog on mine), so I expect it would wear about the same. Of course this is XTR, so I expect the grade of aluminum to be much higher than what SRAM uses on XX1/X01.

 

[toodles]

Ihat said, I know more than one person who has cracked an XX1 cassette, separating the cogs between I think 2nd and 3rd gears before the cassette wore out.

I actually broke one of the low-end SRAM cassettes also. Never expected to have a cassette failure of all bloody things but there you go.

I really do prefer the SRAM 11spd X-dome cassettes (had no end of shit when i tried GX Eagle 12spd) but SRAM really need to do them in a wider range. As it stands, if you want bigger than 42T, you've got to go to Eagle 50T or faff about with aftermarket expanders. Shimano do their 11-46 which I'm running now but the gear spread (11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-46) makes it seem like switching to low range rather than a natural progression of gears as they simply took off their 42 and replaced it with a 46.

Sure there are other brands (Sunrace, Hope, e.13, Garabruk (sp) and Leonardi) but reliability isn't proven and they're hard to find.

 

[HAB]

I actually broke one of the low-end SRAM cassettes also. Never expected to have a cassette failure of all bloody things but there you go.

I really do prefer the SRAM 11spd X-dome cassettes (had no end of shit when i tried GX Eagle 12spd) but SRAM really need to do them in a wider range. As it stands, if you want bigger than 42T, you've got to go to Eagle 50T or faff about with aftermarket expanders. Shimano do their 11-46 which I'm running now but the gear spread (11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-46) makes it seem like switching to low range rather than a natural progression of gears as they simply took off their 42 and replaced it with a 46.

Sure there are other brands (Sunrace, Hope, e.13, Garabruk (sp) and Leonardi) but reliability isn't proven and they're hard to find.

Yeah, I'm glad there's some choice with
Shimano. I've got an 11-40 M9000 on one bike, and 11-36 ten speed on another. Both are fine but I wouldn't mind a little more. The new 10-45 cassette looks like it would suit me really well in terms of gear ratios.

 

[kidwoo]

I really do prefer the SRAM 11spd X-dome cassettes (had no end of shit when i tried GX Eagle 12spd) but SRAM really need to do them in a wider range. As it stands, if you want bigger than 42T, you've got to go to Eagle 50T or faff about with aftermarket expanders.

e13 dawg

Got one

Love it

 

[djjohnr]

I'm running a Sunrace 11-50 with no issues. Better gear spacing than the XT11-46 on my other bike.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

I'm running a Sunrace 11-50 with no issues. Better gear spacing than the XT11-46 on my other bike.

I'm running Sunrace 11-46 11 speed on any non-eagle demo bike. With SRAM shifter and derailleur, Works nice. Not as good as high end Eagle but as good as Eagle GX. Nice, close ratio box

 

[toodles]

I take it the e.13 is a XD driver and the Sunrace is classic old Shimano driver?

I run Hope hubs so I can actually run their weird arse driver/cassette as well

 

[Sandro]

I take it the e.13 is a XD driver and the Sunrace is classic old Shimano driver?

Yes, I have the 9-46 e13 and a 10 speed 11-42 Sun Race on my bikes. They are both not quite as smooth shifting as a smaller Shimano cassette, but so far i have no complaints with either of them.

 

[Bike078]

10 speed 11-42 cogs and 10 speed chain (both Deore) with an 11-speed xt derailleur. No problems thus far.

 

[6thElement]

I take it the e.13 is a XD driver and the Sunrace is classic old Shimano driver?

I run Hope hubs so I can actually run their weird arse driver/cassette as well

If you're talking about a Pro2 or newer, they can be converted to run an XD driver with appropriate axle change. You basically turn them into the EVO version.

If you're using a bulb, you're on your own.

 

[slimshady]

I'm running Sunrace 11-46 11 speed on any non-eagle demo bike. With SRAM shifter and derailleur, Works nice. Not as good as high end Eagle but as good as Eagle GX. Nice, close ratio box

With regards to spacing, itsi basically a Shimano 11-36 cluster with two extra, big cogs. I really like it. Even more for the price. I have over a year and 2500 km on mine, with one chain swap not long ago. It's holding fine so far.

 

[slimshady]

DT Swiss has already stated that microspline will be available as a freehub only aftermarket upgrade for many of their hubs.

Bikerumor tells a different story:

Even though DT is the only company currently authorized to produce Micro Spline freehubs, the reality seems to be that the development agreement between Shimano and DT Swiss appears to prohibit DT from selling the new freehubs individually.

So while your current wheels with 240s hubs can swap tool free from Shimano 10/11 speed cassette bodies, to a SRAM XD driver body, even to the new Shimano Micro Spline cassette body if you could get one; DT can’t sell you the new freehub on its own…

 

[Jm_]

Bikerumor tells a different story:

 

[slimshady]

View attachment 129033

Giant Varano Level: achieved.

 

[jonKranked]

Bikerumor tells a different story:

Well, that's some kill list.

 

[rideit]

If I could just buy the freehub body and retrofit it onto my current 240, I would give the cassette a go when I wear out the Eagle.
Lizards...are you...monitoring...this thread?


(I crack myself up!)

 

[toodles]

If I could just buy the freehub body and retrofit it onto my current 240, I would give the cassette a go when I wear out the Eagle.
Lizards...are you...monitoring...this thread?


(I crack myself up!)

I'd put money on the cassette spacing not being compatible with an Eagle shifter hey. They went out of their way to make sure none of their stuff will work with SRAM anything.

 

[iRider]

Well, that's some kill list.

Suicide list......Shimano clearly wants to commit suicide. Or it is a business restructure thing and they put their focus on E-bikes and fishing rods. Not sure, one of the two. Anyway, no need to get your hands dirty, problem will solve itself.

 

[Da Peach]

Making my Shimano great again. Again.

 

[slimshady]

View attachment 129034 Making my Shimano great again. Again.

That's something some SSMS (Serious Serial Masturbatory Syndrome) right there. Borderline masochistic I'd say.

 

[jonKranked]

Suicide list......Shimano clearly wants to commit suicide. Or it is a business restructure thing and they put their focus on E-bikes and fishing rods. Not sure, one of the two. Anyway, no need to get your hands dirty, problem will solve itself.

Nah. They did the same thing with centerlock. Pretty much everyone makes cl hubs now. Hell even SRAM makes centerlock rotors.

 

[HAB]

Well that is bullshit. I was actually a little bit excited about the drivetrain, but if I have to buy a new hub when I have several perfectly good DT hubsets already, I'm out.

 

[slimshady]

Well that is bullshit. I was actually a little bit excited about the drivetrain, but if I have to buy a new hub when I have several perfectly good DT hubsets already, I'm out.

This is possibly the "impuesto al boludo" (dumbass' tax for you non- Argentinian speakers), or the extra money they I-want-the-latest-and-greatest dentists out there are going to pay. Wait till 2019 and you'll probably find the freehub sold separately in every major online retailer.

 

[HAB]

This is possibly the "impuesto al boludo" (dumbass' tax for you non- Argentinian speakers), or the extra money they I-want-the-latest-and-greatest dentists out there are going to pay. Wait till 2019 and you'll probably find the freehub sold separately in every major online retailer.

Here's to hoping.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

Bikerumor tells a different story:

Because why would anybody buy a shimano hub when they could just buy a free hub body for their DT hub.?

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

Nah. They did the same thing with centerlock. Pretty much everyone makes cl hubs now. Hell even SRAM makes centerlock rotors.

Another stupid, assinine, step backwward, answer to a question nobody asked, dumb ass standard.

 

[Jm_]

Another stupid, assinine, step backwward, answer to a question nobody asked, dumb ass standard.

I quite like using the BB tool I already had to remove brake rotors in about 5 seconds compared to turning 6 tiny bolts with recessed torx fittings.

That said, did not get a CL front hub on my latest build because I plan to use a boost-extender kit at times, so yeah, it's one of those "marginal benefit" things that has some validity, but isn't some crazy quantum shift.

This is the general idea that's been said by a few, it's not like we are riding a new 1x drivetrain vs old 3x, or an FS bike vs. hardtail, or non-dropper vs. good modern dropper. These "improvements" get so slight that the marginal improvement doesn't outweigh everything else.

 

[slimshady]

Back and forth again. Seems like the MS DT freehub will be available separately after all:

https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/04/micro-spline-update-yes-to-aftermarket-dt-swiss-freehub-availability-for-new-xtr/

 

[rideit]

hmmmn...now to see if the cassettes will shift with SRAM shifters/derailleur...

OR: perhaps SRAM could play a sweet lizard game, and produce a 10-51 cassette with better gear jumps...

 

[slimshady]

But will it be retro-fittable onto existing hubs?

yes.