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Malaysia's airlines really having a f*cked year

Kalbi777

Chimp
Nov 3, 2014
35
5
This is real bad I feel sorry for all the families and to the people concerned.
I think it couldn't get worse
 

Muddy

ancient crusty bog dude
Jul 7, 2013
2,032
908
Free Soda Refills at Fuddruckers
Please allow me to translate:
The captain flew to an unsafe altitude causing engine failure resulting in the loss of thrust and an eventual crash.

It's either that, or:
I got the captain high before his flight,...oh look a goat.
...and I went and responded to the latter of course.

Agreed that this is an unfortunate series of events, but hope stays with there being a stark contrast to another senseless mishap in aviation & in the free world.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,579
9,589
so the pic of the guy floating in the sea in his banana hammock....wtf was he doing when the plane went down?
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,301
16,741
Riding the baggage carousel.
"Leaked figures show the plane climbed at a virtually unprecedented rate of 6000 to 9000 feet per minute, and "you can't do that at altitude in an Airbus 320 with pilot action".
.....
The plane then fell at an even more incredible rate: 11,000 feet per minute with bursts of up to 24,000 feet per minute."
Holy shit. :shocked:
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,980
9,638
AK
Other than giving the families some relief, pretty much doesn't mean jack squat without the black boxes. Someones gonna get their dick in a ringer big time if weather turns out to be the cause of this accident.
Airline dispatch and the pilots in that case.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,505
In hell. Welcome!
So, a professional pilot does not know that pulling on the stick and high AoA will make the plane stall? :disgust1:

The story just does not sound right.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,681
13,026
Cackalacka du Nord
squeeb, can you explain the connection between cutting that breaker and the co-pilot making the plane climb so sharply all of the sudden? I can't see why one would have caused the other from the article.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,301
16,741
Riding the baggage carousel.
So, a professional pilot does not know that pulling on the stick and high AoA will make the plane stall? :disgust1:

The story just does not sound right.
That sort of thing is a lot more common than you might want to think. See Air France 447 for just one of aviation's latest anecdotes on such an occurrence.

squeeb, can you explain the connection between cutting that breaker and the co-pilot making the plane climb so sharply all of the sudden? I can't see why one would have caused the other from the article.
No, I can't. That said, I've never worked on a plane with such a system so it's possible I don't understand it's operation.
 
squeeb, can you explain the connection between cutting that breaker and the co-pilot making the plane climb so sharply all of the sudden? I can't see why one would have caused the other from the article.
Consider operating a piece of equipment which usually adjusts what you're telling it to do. An example would be anti-lock brakes. Once you understand how they work, you stop worrying about modulating the brakes in exciting conditions, just stuff your foot in and keep steering. Now pull the breaker. Your foot's on the floorboard, steering stops working unexpectedly, boom.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,980
9,638
AK
There's still the question of why he zoom-climbed up all of a sudden, which still doesn't really make any sense. Will take a little while to sort this one out, but the pieces are coming together.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,301
16,741
Riding the baggage carousel.
Consider operating a piece of equipment which usually adjusts what you're telling it to do. An example would be anti-lock brakes. Once you understand how they work, you stop worrying about modulating the brakes in exciting conditions, just stuff your foot in and keep steering. Now pull the breaker. Your foot's on the floorboard, steering stops working unexpectedly, boom.
Some of teh google leads me to believe this might be correct. I found a system description of the FAC for a A300 here, and I have no reason to suspect there is any great difference between the A300 and A320. Manufacturers tend to stick with what "works". Reads in part: "Flight Augmentation Computer (FAC) provides yaw damping functions to support rudder control for dutch roll damping, turn coordination, and autopilot assistance in case of engine failure to counter lateral acceleration/yaw during recovery. The FAC also provides pitch trim commands to the THS."

In other words, if the FAC, for what ever reason, is attempting to trim the aircraft out pitch wise for a specific configuration, and the captain pulls the plug, the aircraft is no longer automatically compensating for what ever conditions it finds itself in. So if the FO is yanking back on the stick and the FAC is fighting the FO to keep the airplane level, suddenly cutting the FAC makes the airplane stand on it's tail.

Reading the A300 accident report makes me wonder if the Air Asia crew didn't experience almost the same thing, except in reverse.
"With regard to autopilot issues, the team identified several specific problematic issues, including:

  • Pilot/autopilot interactions that create hazardous out-of-trim conditions
  • Autopilots that can produce hazardous speed conditions and may attempt maneuvers that would not normally be expected by a pilot; and
  • Insufficient wording in the Airplane Flight Manual regarding the capabilities and limitations of the autopilot."
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,980
9,638
AK
We'll see, but yanking back on the controls like that, whether it's in normal law, alternate or with no protections, is hugely wrong in most conditions. The only reason I ever have is to avoid hitting something, like a bird, airplane, etc. Well, also for fun :) I would never ever try a zoom-climb in a plane like that though.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,505
In hell. Welcome!
So if the FO is yanking back on the stick and the FAC is fighting the FO to keep the airplane level, suddenly cutting the FAC makes the airplane stand on it's tail.
Still odd. They usually don't go near the limits of the envelope - even safe maneuvers result in relatively high Gs and a massive discomfort for teh cargo - unless Malaysian airlines treat them plebs like dog shit, which is entirely possible.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,301
16,741
Riding the baggage carousel.
We'll see, but yanking back on the controls like that, whether it's in normal law, alternate or with no protections, is hugely wrong in most conditions. The only reason I ever have is to avoid hitting something, like a bird, airplane, etc. Well, also for fun :) I would never ever try a zoom-climb in a plane like that though.
True enough. Though the pilots aren't supposed to be up and around pulling CB's either. Who knows, pure speculation on my part.