[ummbikes]

I think it does simply boil down to the fact the big drug companies are not willing to let market-share slide.

But really, like anything thing that chages your perception or mood it has the potential to make trouble for those who use it and those around them. People who smoke will be aggressive and wanna brawl if they are aggressive brawling types of people. So I guess I'm saying I don't completetly buy the "weed makes people mellow arguement" heck alcohol makes some people mellow too...

 

[brock]

I think every person who has posted in this thread should seriously consider reading a book called "Reefer Madness" by Eric Schlosser. It shares the name with the movie.

Amazon link

It also covers cheap labor and porn. I wish he would have covered prostitution as well but oh well.


I am going to go out on a limb here and say that pot will never be "legal" in this country. Decriminalized maybe, but not legal. Think about the bureaucracy that would be created just trying to perform the basic ineffective management that the government would impose on it. It would make the war on drugs look like a good deal.

 

[ummbikes]

Good read, not as in depth as his book Fast Food Nation but still interesting.

 

[llkoolkeg]

"Give me GOOD reasons why it is so beneficial to legalize it?"

It would've helped you along in your time of injury, plus, all the cool kids are doing it

"You smoke pot at home? I thought you had children? Anyhow society may or may not have the "right" to tell you what you can or cannot do but the majority of society does have the power to determine what individual acts are detrimental to the whole. We call this democracy... or pay to play in some cases."

I have an 18MO daughter and I personally don't possess or smoke it at home for that reason and also because I have a firearms arsenal that would not mix well with reefer in the eyes of the law. If I smoke, it is off the trail deep in the backwoods and due to the benevolence of friends I helped out similarly for years in the past. I was making a point that nobody will tell me what I can or can not ingest. If I want to eat fvcking catfood sauteed in puna butter, that's what I will do. Nobody will tell me what I can or can not do with my cock either, so long as it is with a consenting adult. I'm not gay, but if I was, I would be as up in arms over sodomy laws as I am about growing and consuming a friggin' plant. And thanks for the sorely needed civics lesson.

"Smoking away your future health and security is your business but when you have children I think it's time to re-evaluate your "personal" freedoms."

I find your point ironic given your love of weapons. Similar arguments are often made about possessing firearms when you have children. Where is the consistency in your ethos? Is the Federal Code the only star by which you navigate or do you have another master, internal or otherwise?

"I'm here! You guys are just lucky I have to prepare for a debate tournament/physics test/caluculus test/PSAT or I'd be all over this."

Well bless my lucky stars!

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Weak,

It is because you can't start a fight.....you are to much hazy a cloud to do it..... Exactly the kind of person I want driving a car.

Doesn't happen with alcohol all the time....I don't do it. The dorks that get in fights would do it sober anyway, don't kid yourself.

Any person that says that it doesn't alter their reflexs is full of crap. You wouldn't do it if it was without some sort of effect.

Drunk people think they drive just fine too. You think you ride better stoned.....*snicker* Bwahahahahaha

Naah, I ride about the same. I have a stretch of really technical trail that I time myself on (point to point). My fastest time ever was when I had smoked a bowl on the way to the trailhead. But my second fastest time was less than a second slower and I was sober.... Anyway, I dont really think it makes a difference.

I can say however that I would ba WAY slower if I had been drunk.

Your theory about it slowing your reflexes (IMHO) is false, however your comparison of a stoned person to a drunk person is WAY off base. They are not even similar in their effects.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by golgiaparatus
I can say however that I would ba WAY slower if I had been drunk.

Your theory about it slowing your reflexes (IMHO) is false, however your comparison of a stoned person to a drunk person is WAY off base. They are not even similar in their effects.

But if you drank enough, and could adjust for it? I know friends who are solid in there mannerisms when drunk. They can preform normal daily duties....they are called alcoholics.

The effects are dissimiliar, but effecting your behavior none-the-less. Is one altering effect worse than the other when any IMO (it isn't very humble ) is considered bad? To say it doesn't impare/alter your judgement is problematic statement. even if you were the same stoned or sober....how many others are uneffected? Can you weed (poor pun intended ) them out? From a broad point of view I don't think you (or anyone) would do it if it did nothing to your person.....just like cigs, alcohol, chocolate, etc.

Do you ride better becuase you could care less(or think less) about crashing? If so how can that be beneficial in society....say driving a car.

Either way the seattle election won't result in any change in police proceedure since they don't chase or do stings for personal pot smokers. Unlike Crack and heroine. Now people are calling in asking if they can Smoke in the open in Pioneer Square (DT Party district) Cops are like "NO! It is still illegal." LOL!

I can see it now......."Hey cop, I am smoken pot. You can't do anything about it....neener, neener.....Wha? Hey! What are you doing?....... Aww damn! I paid good money for that."

 

[slein]

i wanna make a bong/one-hitter outta my broken sid frame shock.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
But if you drank enough, and could adjust for it? I know friends who are solid in there mannerisms when drunk. They can preform normal daily duties....they are called alcoholics.

The effects are dissimiliar, but effecting your behavior none-the-less. Is one altering effect worse than the other when any IMO (it isn't very humble ) is considered bad? To say it doesn't impare/alter your judgement is problematic statement. even if you were the same stoned or sober....how many others are uneffected? Can you weed (poor pun intended ) them out? From a broad point of view I don't think you (or anyone) would do it if it did nothing to your person.....just like cigs, alcohol, chocolate, etc.

Do you ride better becuase you could care less(or think less) about crashing? If so how can that be beneficial in society....say driving a car.

Either way the seattle election won't result in any change in police proceedure since they don't chase or do stings for personal pot smokers. Unlike Crack and heroine. Now people are calling in asking if they can Smoke in the open in Pioneer Square (DT Party district) Cops are like "NO! It is still illegal." LOL!

I can see it now......."Hey cop, I am smoken pot. You can't do anything about it....neener, neener.....Wha? Hey! What are you doing?....... Aww damn! I paid good money for that."

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
But if you drank enough, and could adjust for it? I know friends who are solid in there mannerisms when drunk. They can preform normal daily duties....they are called alcoholics.

The effects are dissimiliar, but effecting your behavior none-the-less. Is one altering effect worse than the other when any IMO (it isn't very humble ) is considered bad? To say it doesn't impare/alter your judgement is problematic statement. even if you were the same stoned or sober....how many others are uneffected? Can you weed (poor pun intended ) them out? From a broad point of view I don't think you (or anyone) would do it if it did nothing to your person.....just like cigs, alcohol, chocolate, etc.

Do you ride better becuase you could care less(or think less) about crashing? If so how can that be beneficial in society....say driving a car.

Either way the seattle election won't result in any change in police proceedure since they don't chase or do stings for personal pot smokers. Unlike Crack and heroine. Now people are calling in asking if they can Smoke in the open in Pioneer Square (DT Party district) Cops are like "NO! It is still illegal." LOL!

I can see it now......."Hey cop, I am smoken pot. You can't do anything about it....neener, neener.....Wha? Hey! What are you doing?....... Aww damn! I paid good money for that."

I wont go to far into this today and hit every single point except this... Alcohol is far worse than pot, period. Lack of motivation (pot) does not equal lack of motor skills (alcohol).

Also THC is not physically addictive (i.e. your body does not go through withdrawl). Alcohol... and I believe it was you who told me this, is as addictive as heroin (i.e. you can die from both kinds of withdrawl). You can also get alcohol poisioning, you cant get THC poisoning. Well you could but you would have to smoke a pound of KB every 5 min for like 6 hours or something (which is impossible).

BTW dont try to say that THC is addictive... Its not, I smoke on a very regular basis and just 3 or 4 weeks ago there waas no grass anywhere to be found... I hardly noticed except for the fact that I seemed to not eat as much munchie food

 

[laura]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
But if you drank enough, and could adjust for it? I know friends who are solid in there mannerisms when drunk. They can preform normal daily duties....they are called alcoholics.

i am going to have to agree with this. when i havent smoked in a while and then i light up, i cant do anything, but i DON'T get behind the wheel, or do anything else that would put others in danger. the real argument shouldnt be that it doesnt impair, becasue it does. it should be that responsible use, just like responsible alcohol use is just as harmless. people are going to be irresponsible whether it is legal or not. so many people do it. so many. it really is funny that it is still illegal and "evil".

 

[laura]

Originally posted by golgiaparatus

BTW dont try to say that THC is addictive... Its not, I smoke on a very regular basis and just 3 or 4 weeks ago there waas no grass anywhere to be found... I hardly noticed except for the fact that I seemed to not eat as much munchie food

i have to disagree. it may not have physically addictive quallities but it can be and is metally addictive for tons of people. tn's brother turns into this crazy asshole when he can't find any weed. and we all see what happened to swissless when he quit. he left the monkey all together.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Originally posted by ummbikes
I would be happy if they allowed users to cultivate 2-3 plants for personal use...

Word.

Personal use, I think, is OK. Liggett & Meyers isn't.

I quit smoking weed in the mid 70's - never was too heavy into it in the first place, and it got so I just got anxious when I smoked, so I stopped.

J

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by johnbryanpeters
Word.

...and it got so I just got anxious when I smoked, so I stopped.

J

Me too.

I argue for legalisation only because it's retarded to allow alcohol to be legal and not marijuana.

It really cracks me up that people who will gladly suck down a beer or shot of Cuervo look down on those who smoke. Sheesh take the legal issues out of the equation and there is no moral high ground for either party.

Oh well back to bed for moi!

Peace

 

[goosemagoo]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
...Do you ride better becuase you could care less(or think less) about crashing? If so how can that be beneficial in society....say driving a car....

A lot of people don't drive their car for an adrenalin rush.

And, NO, I don't want any high (or drunk) drivers on the road.

llkoolkeg - "Is the Federal Code the only star by which you navigate or do you have another master, internal or otherwise?"

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by laura
i have to disagree. it may not have physically addictive quallities but it can be and is metally addictive for tons of people. tn's brother turns into this crazy asshole when he can't find any weed. and we all see what happened to swissless when he quit. he left the monkey all together.

Really?! I dont know anybody that gets all pissy if they cant find bud... Well, unless they get pissy about things easily anyway.

Anyway, I realize I was speaking out of personal experience and others may be affected differently.

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by The Captain
I have talked to severaL police who are fully supportive of marijuana, and would like to see alcohol criminalized

if you spoke with several cops from a-ville then i can understand their position....they're just lazy since a-ville is full of pot smokin' hippies and legalizing it would mean less work for them

if pot is legalized i can GUARANTEE that traffic deaths will increase. if you honestly believe that pot isn't harmful then i'd like to have you join me on the streets one night; even if it wasn't proveable that it causes bodily harm it will definitley cause stupidity. my opinion may be jaded as i think that alcohol should be a controlled substance but unfortunately that'll never happen.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by manimal

if pot is legalized i can GUARANTEE that traffic deaths will increase. if you honestly believe that pot isn't harmful then i'd like to have you join me on the streets one night; even if it wasn't proveable that it causes bodily harm it will definitley cause stupidity. my opinion may be jaded as i think that alcohol should be a controlled substance but unfortunately that'll never happen.

Sigh.

Lots of things cause stupidity. The largest cause seems to be procreation, but that is another issue. We did try alcohol prohibition before, remind me how that turned out.

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by Silver


We did try alcohol prohibition before, remind me how that turned out.

exactly why i said it would never happen. as long as there are weak minded individuals there will always be drugs/alcohol to help escape reality. and yes, stupidity is not only attributed to those who smoke weed, however, an individuals stupidity is magnified when under the influence. it's actually kinda fun attempting to get a decent statement from a stoned/drunk idiot; like trying to get a 5 yr old to explain quantum physics.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by manimal
exactly why i said it would never happen. as long as there are weak minded individuals there will always be drugs/alcohol to help escape reality. and yes, stupidity is not only attributed to those who smoke weed, however, an individuals stupidity is magnified when under the influence. it's actually kinda fun attempting to get a decent statement from a stoned/drunk idiot; like trying to get a 5 yr old to explain quantum physics.

Yes, it didn't work.

Just like the War on Drugs. But, I guess if it doesn't work, we'll just keep trying until it doesn't work, right?

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by Silver
Yes, it didn't work.

Just like the War on Drugs. But, I guess if it doesn't work, we'll just keep trying until it doesn't work, right?

war on drugs has a bad guy/good guy ratio of about 5000/1, how would you do in that war? especially since our hands are constantly being tied thanks to the ACLU. Anyhoo....if you honestly believe that there is no "war", i once again invite you to ride along with any law enforcement officer...you'll see more than you're share of the "war".

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by manimal
war on drugs has a bad guy/good guy ratio of about 5000/1, how would you do in that war? especially since our hands are constantly being tied thanks to the ACLU. Anyhoo....if you honestly believe that there is no "war", i once again invite you to ride along with any law enforcement officer...you'll see more than you're share of the "war".

Yeah, those bastards at the ACLU. That's why people do drugs.

I've used drugs manimal, am I a bad guy?

Do I deserve to be in prison?

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by Silver
Yeah, those bastards at the ACLU. That's why people do drugs.

I've used drugs manimal, am I a bad guy?

Do I deserve to be in prison?

where did i infer that the ACLU caused people to use drugs? i was only implying that they've attempted to take away the weapons we use in the drug war, some attempts were succesful, some weren't.

so what...you've used drugs....who cares, but you understand the risks of being caught. if you can handle the consequence of being caught then heck....go for it, why not...everybody's doing it. yes, i believe, and always will, that people who use drugs are weak minded individuals (not referring to intelect). in prison for something like weed? trafficking/selling then yes, simple posession, no. if you'd really like to know why the "war on drugs" is such a failure then ask the judges that allow 7-10 time repeat offenders out of court with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. :angry: we do our job and bring the "bad guys" into custody and then the courts just let them go :angry:

 

[slein]

the war on drugs... ACLU... does it seems that no one has the right idea?

i was watching cops the other night. cops posing as drug dealers... too funny. anyway, arresting the end-user is a pointless struggle. its only purpose is to instill fear into the population. these people would be better off getting treatment than going to jail.

think about it... the majority are users, so concentrating efforts on these individuals requires a lot of resources. there are less dealers than users... and also different levels of distribution. further less is the amount of cultivators. so, wouldn't it require less resources to go after these individuals? like, i'm only an engineer... i think that this is the easier facet to exploit. to see the public being arrested only goes to show that the fighters in the war on drugs are getting very desperate. they are fighting a losing battle.

i remember a quote that goes something like this:

"the only way to get rid of a problem (like drug use) is to succumb to it... i.e. regulation. "

prohibition just doesn't work, and throwing money at a problem in the way that it is going is definitely giving you a white-elephant - a drug free america.

cocaine, heroine, crystal meth, and other hard drugs are very damaging. the users need treatment, and not jail time.

MJ though... well, this is a soft drug that is rarely addictive and doesn't have as many side effects as other harder drugs. its prohibition doesn't do anything at all.