Mechanical Questions on Bike build......

buildyourown · Jul 9, 2008

Usually, the spacers are for 68mm shells. 73mm would use no spacers. Sometimes you have to use 1 to keep that arms from hitting the chainstay or for chainring/guide clearance.
Basically, the fewer spacers the better, the more spline engagement on your crank/BB the better.

davep · Jul 9, 2008

It says in plain english(and spanish, french, etc) in the manual how to configure the spacers......

Read it.

mrpercussive · Jul 9, 2008

you might have gotten the 150mm rear spacing socom and a 51mm chainline BB...

bent_steel · Jul 9, 2008

73mm shell is 1 spacer on the drive side.

4xBoy · Jul 9, 2008

bent_steel said:
73mm shell is 1 spacer on the drive side.

+1

Two spacers drive one non drive for 68

One spacer drive 73 (socom is this)

No spacer on 73 if you are installing a iscg adaptor.

davep · Jul 9, 2008

mrpercussive said:
you might have gotten the 150mm rear spacing socom and a 51mm chainline BB...

There are no chainline options available in shimano outboard bbs. The spindle sets the chainline(part of the crank not the bb) and that is dictated by the bb shell width. The only crank from shimano that is NOT 47.5/50 mm chainline is the saint 805s. BTW 51mm is not a proper chainline for any bike made by anyone anywhere..something that truvativ made up for their own convenience it seems.

If he has a 150 rear, and hones, he is screwed....(unless running a single ring in the outboard position.)

haromtnbiker · Jul 9, 2008

I'm running gravity lites on my iron horse that has a 73mm bottom bracket and 150mm hub. I have my setup with no spacer on the left side and the iscg adapter on the drive side as a spacer. As long as your crank arm doesn't hit the chainstays with no spacer on the left side then you should run it that way.

bent_steel · Jul 9, 2008

If you have 150mm dropouts, you might need a crankset with an 83mm bottom bracket to achieve the correct chainline.

Hones do not come in 83mm bb's, the spindles are not long enough, if this is the case then your cranks will not work.

What spacing is your rear wheel? 135 or 150?

bent_steel · Jul 9, 2008

more importantly when you remove the non drive spacer, does the crank arm seat correctly? are you getting the spindle all the way to where it needs to be on the crankarm?

Dogboy · Jul 9, 2008

4xBoy said:
+1

Two spacers drive one non drive for 68

One spacer drive 73 (socom is this)

No spacer on 73 if you are installing a iscg adaptor.

+2. You need only the 1 drive-side spacer.

p.s. - all Shimano tech documents are online:
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/Hone/ST-M600/SI-6JZFE_En_v1_m56577569830605395.pdf

davep · Jul 9, 2008

slothy said:
**** thats what I have, Im confused I have a 150mm rear... so I cant run a hones? so I should have saints? I have the chainring on the middle ring......

why cant intense put up recommended sizes like headsets, and cranks etc....
not that hard to do.....

Ok back to square one....

You have a 150 rear, that dictates a 55 mm chainline (your hones are 50mm).
Most 55 mm chainline cranks are specific to an 83mm bb (yea intense for not thinking this through).
Saints (805s) would give you the correct chainline, but will not fit your bb width. (you could try to use the Race face 83 - 73 adapter kit thingy with the saint 805s).

Are you running a single ring????? if so, just mount the cranks correctly for the 73 mm bb (one spacer (or guide plate) on drive side...none on non-drive side). Then put the ring on the outer position....this moves you chainline outboard by about 5mm, giving proper chainline.

However, with the ring on the outer mount, you will need to space your guide as well to be centered over the new ring position. This will most likely cause the back plate of the guide to hit the granny tabs on the cranks...so you will probabaly need to grind them down for this to work.

davep · Jul 9, 2008

slothy said:
rear wheel is 150,
why would intense sell with 150 mm drop outs if they didnt work with them.....

Cause they dont really think this all out...(but what do you expect from a company that sells the required rear axle seperately and charges more for it)

The 'other' dropouts (135s) would have worked correctly with your cranks. The only currently available option for the wacko 73/150 set up is a truvativ bb or an ISIS bb (both in 73mm bb with 55mm chainline) with corresponding cranks. Race face also make a spacer kit to fit the 83mm diabolus on 73mm bbs for this same goofy issue.

When the M3 first came out, they were offered in a 135 rear and 73mm bb, BUT....47/50mm chainline cranks any longer than 165mm would hit the seatstays on the frame....

haromtnbiker · Jul 9, 2008

I've made 150mm rear end and 73mm bottom bracket work on my yakuza with no chainline issues- using gravity lites.

davep · Jul 9, 2008

haromtnbiker said:
I've made 150mm rear end and 73mm bottom bracket work on my yakuza with no chainline issues- using gravity lites.

Unless you have a single ring on the outside mount, your chainline is quite off....no way around it.

You may not notice the offset (think of how much chainline offset there is across the cluster), and depending on how you set this up, you may or may not see issues like dropping the chain durring back-pedaling....chain skipping etc

but over time you will kill your drivetrain (rings, cogs, chain, der) quicker than normal due to the constant diagonal chain.

Dogboy · Jul 9, 2008

haromtnbiker said:
I've made 150mm rear end and 73mm bottom bracket work on my yakuza with no chainline issues- using gravity lites.

Lots of people "have made it work" too. That doesn't mean you have the correct chainline. Look at it like this: With 150mm rear spacing and a 55mm chainline, you have a straight chainline with the chain on the 5th (middle) cog of a 9-speed cassette. Shifting up to the top or down to the smallest cog on the rear moves the chain an equal amount from the center. This is good and makes your drivetrain happy. With a 50mm chainline you are effectively moving your straight chainline to right around the 2nd or 3rd cog from the top. That means when you shift down into those smaller cogs (that are commonly used on a DH bike), your chainline gets way far from straight and causes increased wear and crappy performance. Now your drivetrain is sad and will explode.

Dogboy · Jul 9, 2008

slothy said:
bollix sh**T SH**T bollox im going to france on saturday wank wank Fuuuuuck i bought wheels and everything for the 150mm this this **** intense shiiit

What chainguide are you using? This can be a relatively easy fix.

Dogboy · Jul 9, 2008

slothy said:
I got a Gamut p40.

Not really ideal for running the chainring on the outside of the spider.

An e13 LG-1 with a Wide backplate would work perfectly. All you would have to do then is grind/file the granny gear tabs on the Hones and you would be in business.

haromtnbiker · Jul 9, 2008

Dogboy said:
Lots of people "have made it work" too. That doesn't mean you have the correct chainline. Look at it like this: With 150mm rear spacing and a 55mm chainline, you have a straight chainline with the chain on the 5th (middle) cog of a 9-speed cassette. Shifting up to the top or down to the smallest cog on the rear moves the chain an equal amount from the center. This is good and makes your drivetrain happy. With a 50mm chainline you are effectively moving your straight chainline to right around the 2nd or 3rd cog from the top. That means when you shift down into those smaller cogs (that are commonly used on a DH bike), your chainline gets way far from straight and causes increased wear and crappy performance. Now your drivetrain is sad and will explode.

5th gear looks like a pretty happy chainline to me. :banana:

Dogboy · Jul 9, 2008

haromtnbiker said:
5th gear looks like a pretty happy chainline to me.

I knew this would come up :rolleyes:

Your frame is not representative of a normal 150mm rear triangle.

Jonny5 · Jul 9, 2008

This thread is a load of BS. 150x73mm shell works f'ing fine. Your not doing 1000km a week on a dh bike, especially not in the higher gears- your not going to wear your sh*t so quick you can't keep up. Just run it, it will be fine- like everyone else bike running the same setup. Now want a bad chainline? check out some the older bikes running 100mm bb shells.

Dogboy · Jul 9, 2008

Jonny5 said:
Now want a bad chainline? check out some the older bikes running 100mm bb shells.

Exactly the same thing being discussed here - just reversed and just as bad.

ThePriceSeliger · Jul 9, 2008

I guess I don't really understand Intense, but my Ventana has a 73x150 with a set of Gravity Lights and it works perfect.

Dogboy · Jul 9, 2008

slothy said:
hey if I got this
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=28289

it says 50mm chain line with 68mm BB shell.
My BB is 73 so if I put on mine will it be a 55mm chain line?

what I mean is if you get 73-68 = 5mm.....

I need some quick fix I doubt I can find a set of 135 mm drop outs.

Slothy,
That is not a correct calculation. It is 50mm with a 68 or 73mm BB shell.

davep · Jul 9, 2008

Jonny5 said:
This thread is a load of BS. 150x73mm shell works f'ing fine. Your not doing 1000km a week on a dh bike, especially not in the higher gears- your not going to wear your sh*t so quick you can't keep up. Just run it, it will be fine- like everyone else bike running the same setup. Now want a bad chainline? check out some the older bikes running 100mm bb shells.

If the chainline was too wide, I would tend to agree with you on a DH bike. Most of the time (at least putting power down) you are in smaller cogs....problem with this particualr set-up is the CL is too narrow, so it is in line with the two cogs from the largest (a gear not really run on a DH course). SO what you end up running is the equavilent of three ring cross gears (big big or small small) for the majority of the time.

People who claim this works either dont know what their set-up actually is (haromtbiker) or just are unaware of/used to the metalic grinding noise of thier drivetrain going bye-bye.

Slothy, chainline (cranks) is defined as the distance from the centerline of the frame to the center plane of the front gears (rings).

This measurement is determined by the same type of measurement of the rear hub...dist from center to dropout (135 or 150 divided by 2) minus the 'thickness' of half a cogset. For any symetrical 135 rear, this measurement is exactly 47.5mm. For a symetrical 150 rear, the measurement is 55.0mm.

So cranks are designed around these numbers.....and the assumption fro most mfg is that a frame with a 150 rear (55mm chainline) would/should have an 83mm bb as this would (it seems) be a FR/DH bike and would benefit from wider bb and cranks.

There are some 'oddball' frames out there (some specframes) that are 135 hubs, yet offset to the side to give a 55mm chainline...and also frames like haromtbiker has that is a 150 rear, but offset the other way to require a 47.5mm chainline...

So in the end, it sort of depends on your $$ situation, and your weight/durability requirements as well as your need/desire to set this up correctly..

LG1 wide would work perfectly with your cranks (remove granny tabs), and allow outer mounting to get correct chainline.

83mm crankset like saint or diabolus with the RF conversion kit wil work with your current guide (but be heavy and cost more).

You could ditch the newer crank tech and go back to ISIS and find a wider bb to make it work.

or you could just set it up as is and ride it and deal with it as things wear...

????? · Dec 2, 2012

And which model of the Sram X.0 or Descendent cranks will I need for a Socom with a 150mm rear end?

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