[Serial Midget]

This post has very little to do with biking so if you are anti-midget and anti-running it is now time to move on. Snowboarding has little to do with biking so I figured I would go ahead… I have had some interest in trail running and ultra marathons from previous posts so I thought I would just make a new thread to post my musings and tempt others to the small but growing sport of adventure running.

The type of trail running I do is endurance oriented and done on the same trails I mountain bike on – XC trails for horses, hikers, bikers and motorcycles. The preferred trail is hard pack single-track forest trail with significant gain, difficult climbs and descents. Difficult conditions such as bad weather, mud, water crossings and technical obstacles only make the course more desirable. My favorite type of organized adventure run is the 50K Ultra Marathon (50K is a little over 31 miles). Since I am new to this very addictive sport I am still an ‘experience’ runner and not a true competitor. Sort of like the SPORT class in mtb racing except all runners are categorized by sex and age. I am in the Male 30-39 class, bad for me as this is the most competitive category for male long distance runners.

So far this year I have finished one regular marathon and 4 ultra distance events. My first 50K was in Hagg Lake near Forest Grove, Oregon. I decided on a whim to run it with some friends from my local mountain biking club – many trial runners ride mtb on non training days to give the running muscles a break while still getting a decent cardio workout. Anyhow I did very poorly o at Hagg Lake: 74 of 78 with a time of 08:00:34. This course had very little elevation gain but conditions were difficult, had I been prepared my time should have been about 6.5 hours. I had no idea what I was getting into but I did finish. 24 runners either DNF’d or pansied out at 25K. My non Monkey Name is Edward Larson. You can learn more about the Hagg Lake 50K by
CLICKING HERE

 

[Serial Midget]

The most popular organized running event in the US is the 5K road race. This race is 3.1 miles and typically run on flat roads. In the year 2000, 2.8 million Americans completed a 5K race. For contrast – In the year 2001, 18,844 participants finished an ultra distance (anything longer than a marathon’s 26.2 miles) in North America (US and Canada combined), this was the highest number ever but still very few runners ever attempt an ultra distance race. This information was taken directly from the September issue of Trail Runner magazine.

While searching the web for the posted results of the recent Cle Elum Ridge 50K I discovered that I was ranked 44 out of 175 male participants in the Oregon Trail Runners series. This was kind of fun and sort of lead me to post this thread. I am not totally sure exactly what this ranking means expect that I ran in 3 of the series 7 races. Next year I plan to run 5 Oregon Ultras, 3 Washington Ultras, one marathon and amybe a dozen 10Ks. You can see my ranking
HERE

 

[Ridemonkey]

I'm annoyed by this thread.

Any advice for someone that can't walk out to the mail box without twisting an ankle?

 

[Serial Midget]

Perhaps an understanding roommate or neighbor might bring the mail to your door. Or... you could just collect it on your way in from riding.

 

[bikebabe]

What's the trick to getting started trail running? It's clearly a different beast than road running. I've been having knee issues from basketball and running on sidewalks. Thus, I decided to try running my normal bike loop a few weeks ago. It's nothing exciting, just a fairly well maintained dirt road that has a long, steep in some sections, ascent and matching descent.

Did fine cardio-wise but even with stretching, my calves hurt for a week afterwards. One side was worse than the other---road is slightly off camber. The bottoms of my feet also felt more pounded than a regular road run. The great part was no cars, much better scenery and no sore knees. So midget, as the voice of experience, can you give any tips or tricks to make trail running a less painful pastime for a creaky road runner?

 

[Squeak]

I was doing some trail running, the last 2 miles of a trail we had hiked. Needless to say I fell like a moron and scraped myself up. Do you think it increases agility dodgeing rocks, steps, horse poop? Is that part of the attraction to it? It was a kick untill I bit it on that darn root...

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by bikebabe
What's the trick to getting started trail running? It's clearly a different beast than road running. I've been having knee issues from basketball and running on sidewalks. Thus, I decided to try running my normal bike loop a few weeks ago. It's nothing exciting, just a fairly well maintained dirt road that has a long, steep in some sections, ascent and matching descent.

Did fine cardio-wise but even with stretching, my calves hurt for a week afterwards. One side was worse than the other---road is slightly off camber. The bottoms of my feet also felt more pounded than a regular road run. The great part was no cars, much better scenery and no sore knees. So midget, as the voice of experience, can you give any tips or tricks to make trail running a less painful pastime for a creaky road runner?

Fire roads tend to be off camber for drainage so that is going to be real hard to avoid unless you run from side to side - this could make you dizzy... Fire roads are good start for trail running but eventually the call of the trail will get you. I think your calves hurt due to the road grade, most paved roads have very gradual climbs that can be handled by your forward momemtum. Steeper climbs need the bounch of your calves in order for you to maintain your speed. If you plan on trail running a lot you may want to train by power walking any hill that increases your heart rate to past 80%.

Finding a trail running partner or group would be invaluable as teams always do better than singles in terms of mental fatigue and pace maintenence. Don't do what I did for my first 50K - prior to that the farthest I had run was 20 miles of logging road. Trial running is more fun but also more difficult.

Also - TRAIL SHOES are required for safety and comfort, thay are not any more expensive than regular running shoes - $75.00 to $150.00 or more. Unlike bikes the more expensive ones are really not that much better.

Later & thanks for the interest!!

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by Squeak
I was doing some trail running, the last 2 miles of a trail we had hiked. Needless to say I fell like a moron and scraped myself up. Do you think it increases agility dodgeing rocks, steps, horse poop? Is that part of the attraction to it? It was a kick untill I bit it on that darn root...

Hehe... just like mtb you have to take your lumps on the technical stuff. On my first 50K the conditions were very muddy and slick, I could not count the times I fell. The trick is to just let it happen that way you do not risk greater injury by trying to safe yourself. The other thing you have to get used to is the slow motion thing - all fall happen in slow motion so that you can remember every detail of the experince! I have not taken a fall recently but every trail runner does - it the price you pay for being overconfident - the trail is compelled to humble you.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by BAH
i have started running on a local track lately believe it or not- maybe after a few months i will take you on one of your trail runs.

You're on! Creek to Peak is my current favorite traing run! Mt Molly / Porter loop is good too.

 

[bikebabe]

Originally posted by Serial Midget


Also - TRAIL SHOES are required for safety and comfort, thay are not any more expensive than regular running shoes - $75.00 to $150.00 or more. Unlike bikes the more expensive ones are really not that much better.

Thanks for the tips and confirmation on trail running shoes. I thought I could avoid spending more money on another sport and use my asics 2050's....but $75 isn't as much as I spend on bike goodies.

The trouble about running fire roads are all those bikers that leave a cloud of dust

 

[Mocha]

I've always managed to squeeze a bit of running into my fitness routine, but usually only short distances of 5k-10k. Thanks for the inspiring thread!

 

[Serial Midget]

After I was schooled in my first 50K I decided that I really liked the experience. It would have been so easy to drop at 25K and try again next year – my first loop had been a respectable 03.05.00 or so. The fact that I pushed and finished what I had set out to do in the first place made me feel pretty good. My time really did suck but it was most physically challenging event I had ever done in my life.

For some reason this type of challenge really appeals to me, within a week I had already signed up for the next 50K in the series even though it was over 2 months away. In the meantime I had already committed to a few multi-sport events and the Capital City Marathon in Olympia WA. I did OK in all these events but not stellar, my road biking speed suffered greatly as I went over the deep end with trail running mileage. When I am at my best I am still a middle of the pack type of guy: 44/45 minute 10Ks and 4 hour marathons are my norm. During this time of excessive training my times slipped to 48 minute 10Ks and a marathon of 04:17.00. I began to get worried as my next 50K came near.

The McDonald Forest is one of the two toughest 50K trail runs in the Pacific NW. It has an elevation gain of 6,600 for the 31+ miles. My goal was to finish this one in under 07:30. For some unknown reason I was feeling quite good on this run, I knew the climbs where absolutely gruesome – there would be tree hugging involved on some of the steepest trails. Unlike my first experience I did keep my speed in check during the first part of the race. Two climbs were particularly brutal one short and one longer. The short one climbed straight up the mountain side gaining 900 feet in ¾ of a mile, the longer one was twice the distance and about 1400 feet of gain. Both were absolute lung burners, a fast hike was all any runner could manage. Freaking tough. The good part about this 50K is the excellent singletrack trail and sustained descents that allowed you to make up a lot of time. I did fine until mile 26 when I hit the wall hard. I was able to keep moving forward but could not manage a running pace for the next 1.5 miles of fairly gentle climb. I was so fatigued that I almost thought I would have a walking finish. By the time I reached the summit of the last peak with only 3.5 miles to go, I could see down the valley to the finish – it was all downhill. This gave me the mental strength I needed to pick up the pace and cross the line running with a smile on my face.

Even though McDonald Forest has 6,000 more feet of gain for the same distance I was able to finish 139 of 178 starters with a time of 07:11:17. You can learn more about the McDonald Forest 50K by clicking HERE

 

[Serial Midget]

In my estimation a 50K Trail Ultra Trail Marathon is the equivalent of a 100 road bike race with a minimum of 5000 feet of gain or a 100K (62 mile) XC mountain bike race of moderate difficulty. I am sort of guessing to the MTB part and only basing my judgement to the finish times. I used to participate in 100 mile road bike rallies in the foothills of the Colorado Rockies – the effort required to finish with a decent time seems similar.

 

[laura]

i have been interested in trail running for a while now and have been doing a little off road running to get used to it. what kind of shoes do you have? i am looking into getting a pair pretty soon and i was thinking about getting some merrells because i read that they are good for wide feet. does anyone know anything about them?

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by laura
i have been interested in trail running for a while now and have been doing a little off road running to get used to it. what kind of shoes do you have? i am looking into getting a pair pretty soon and i was thinking about getting some merrells because i read that they are good for wide feet. does anyone know anything about them?

I favor Aesics Trail Sahara because I love to pound down the hills without worring about rocks and stuff, many runners find them heavy. Even though I think some Montrail shoes are overpriced the brand is known for lots of room in 'the box'... perfect for wide feet. I am not familiar with Merrells.

 

[oly]

Trail runners are worse than horses.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by olymudder
Trail runners are worse than horses.

I have never crapped on the trail. EVER!

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by Serial Midget


I have never crapped on the trail. EVER!

Awwww. C'mon now, fess up.

 

[dirtgirl]

I have found that I am much more nervous running down many sections of trail that I have no problem biking on! I think it's mainly that I keep thinking "don't twist your ankle again don't twist your ankle again don't twist your ankle again"

but it is much more fun than jogging down the street.

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by olymudder
Trail runners are worse than horses.

I gotta admit, trail runners ARE a pain in the ass. There must have been 5 or 6 trail runners this Sunday. I lost my momentum several times because of them and wasn't able to clean certain sections without the momentum. Sheesh! Why can't these guys run the trail during the week when no one's out there. Sunday is the most crowded day! Gimme a break.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by zibbler


I gotta admit, trail runners ARE a pain in the ass. There must have been 5 or 6 trail runners this Sunday. I lost my momentum several times because of them and wasn't able to clean certain sections without the momentum. Sheesh! Why can't these guys run the trail during the week when no one's out there. Sunday is the most crowded day! Gimme a break.

Was it the runners or was it the rider...

If you think you had it bad - in Cle Elum last Saturday there where 107 trail runners, 2 MTBr's and 2 motoheads all on the same limited access trail... trail runners owned it all that day!!!

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by Serial Midget


Was it the runners or was it the rider...

Runner for sure. I was coming up to a short, steep incline that's very rooty at the crest. If you don't have the momentum you have no choice but to push it up the hill. That was about the time I rounded the turn that come up to the incline, and the runner was going up the incline. I had to stop to wait for the runner to clear it as there is no by-pass, which meant I had to push my bike up. ARGGGHH!

 

[JMAC]

Ya trail runners and walkers are the worst no offence but the never here you yelling at them to move. If you tell them you are passing them on the right they move to the right they seem dumb.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by zibbler


Runner for sure. I was coming up to a short, steep incline that's very rooty at the crest. If you don't have the momentum you have no choice but to push it up the hill. That was about the time I rounded the turn that come up to the incline, and the runner was going up the incline. I had to stop to wait for the runner to clear it as there is no by-pass, which meant I had to push my bike up. ARGGGHH!

So you'd prefer the runner to wait for you? I actually step aside for bikers and have never heard a complaint. I meet more cool mtbr's running than when I ride...

JMAC - perhaps it's your method. I think it would be cool if others responded favorably every time I yelled at them... but the world doesn't spin on my dime alone.

 

[JMAC]

Ya that might be it but i think they just don't hear me one thing that realy pisses me off is when people walk across race coarses during a race and they don't look before they do it so you have to slow down. ARRG but thats not trail runners fault.

 

[monkeywrench]

I do both quite a bit and have had incidents with both while doing the other. Wow, I just confused myself. I'll be on a run and some knucklehead mt biker will come right up on me without a "behind you," or I'll be ridin and some runner will come running up a predominantly one way downhill to destroy my momentum. Came around a corner once going 30 mph and slammed into three runners (illegal aliens running up the trail here in SoCal). Tweaked my neck and tood a handlebar end in the chest that still isn't healed right. They were fine, didn't say a word, and amazingly kept right on going.

Anyway, the trails are predominanly multi-use and we need to be on the lookout for the other users. Now if they're f'in morons then just slam into them doing 30 mph. I'm kidding, c'mon.

I think I totally got off track; guess all those drugs back in college are catchin up.