[eric strt6]

Damn I always thought these people were Idiots now my suspicions are confirmed, fricking Satanists

"“The ... investigation team has concluded candles associated with a ritual involving the use of fire and animal sacrifices started the fire"


THE FIRST RAINFALL in the Angeles National Forest area since April helped battle the two wildfires.
The 16,000-acre blaze is 30 miles northeast of Los Angeles and has destroyed 72 buildings, including 50 vacation cabins and a turn-of-the-century ranger station in the mountains above Azusa. Nearly 8,000 campers fled the fire when it broke out Sunday.
Investigators said Thursday they believe that fire was started by people involved in an animal sacrifice.
“The ... investigation team has concluded candles associated with a ritual involving the use of fire and animal sacrifices started the fire,” officials with the U.S. Forest Service said in a statement. It was unclear if any arrests had been made and no further information was immediately available.
That blaze shut down two main electrical transmission lines, and California’s power grid managers were watching a third closely. The fire was 15 percent contained late Wednesday and was expected to be fully surrounded by Tuesday.
Sections of state highways 2 and 39 remained closed and were being used only by fire engines carrying reinforcements.

 

[KFulch]

Idiots...It's bad enough they were up there tearing the heads off chickens or fondling dogs and such; but their antics have to ruin many valuable acres of forest...Hope they keep the investigation open until the culprits are found.

 

[Old_Dude]

. . . fricking Satanists . . .

Actually, you may be right, however, there are some sort-of-Christian-based religious groups who still practice animal sacrifice. Animal sacrifice was quite popular, according to Old Testament accounts.

I'm not agreeing with the practice of animal sacrifice (unless pit bulls are used), nor am I justifying their actions, but rather, I'm just trying to shed some light, there are some weird things going on that aren't always associated with devil-worship.

 

[Instigator]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
Actually, you may be right, however, there are some sort-of-Christian-based religious groups who still practice animal sacrifice. Animal sacrifice was quite popular, according to Old Testament accounts.

I'm not agreeing with the practice of animal sacrifice (unless pit bulls are used), nor am I justifying their actions, but rather, I'm just trying to shed some light, there are some weird things going on that aren't always associated with devil-worship.

Hey, I did not know that? Thanks for the little nugget of knowledge.

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
Actually, you may be right, however, there are some sort-of-Christian-based religious groups who still practice animal sacrifice. Animal sacrifice was quite popular, according to Old Testament accounts.

I'm not agreeing with the practice of animal sacrifice (unless pit bulls are used), nor am I justifying their actions, but rather, I'm just trying to shed some light, there are some weird things going on that aren't always associated with devil-worship.

Spoken like someone who has sheeps blood dripping down his front door.

 

[eric strt6]

Originally posted by Instigator



Hey, I did not know that? Thanks for the little nugget of knowledge.

Dude Your Avatar and this thread just has me rolling

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
Actually, you may be right, however, there are some sort-of-Christian-based religious groups who still practice animal sacrifice. Animal sacrifice was quite popular, according to Old Testament accounts.

Just curious, but what christians sacrafice animals? To my knowledge none. Perhaps some offshoot cult that claims to be christian based may do something like that, but AFAIK, no bible believing born again christians would EVER consider sacrafice of any living thing.

The animal sacrifices in the bible were in the Old Testament and were practiced by Jews and other pagan nations. Jesus is the founder of chritianity, and he abolished sacrifice and all the other Jewish traditions and laws.

 

[Yossarian]

OH no. This needs to be moved to the Debate forum now.

 

[TickTock]

Lets hope jesus saves those woods and makes it rain....err...or something. (joking!)

What I wanna know is how given the absurd amount of heat and wreckage in that forest, they were able to find wax from candles that hadnt burned, and find dead animals and prove that they didnt just die of the huge inferno happening around them.

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by Yossarian
OH no. This needs to be moved to the Debate forum now.

LOL. No, I'm not looking for a debate, just curious where the thought that christians make sacrifices came from, that's all.

 

[dh girlie]

Originally posted by Old_Dude


I'm not agreeing with the practice of animal sacrifice (unless pit bulls are used), nor am I justifying their actions, but rather, I'm just trying to shed some light, there are some weird things going on that aren't always associated with devil-worship.

Oh hey theres an intelligent statement...unless pit bulls are used...SNORT...the reason SOME pitbulls are a$$holes is because of the a$$holes that inbreedand train them for fighting...those same jerks put gunpowder in their food to make their tummies upset so they get grumpy and then they put them in rings with other dogs to fight...as with everything else...there is an intelligent piece of work human behind the behavioral problems of dogs...did you know that there are more fatal Rottweiler attacks than pit bulls???

Check out this information on Stafforshire Terriers...they're very loyal family pets. Obtained by a reputable breeder that doesn't inbreed, you're gonna get a quality pet. If I ever get a dog...this will be the breed I get.

http://pets.yahoo.com/pets/dogs/breed_guide/terrier/?breed=american_staffordshire_terrier

 

[dh girlie]

Originally posted by TickTock
Lets hope jesus saves those woods and makes it rain....err...or something. (joking!)

What I wanna know is how given the absurd amount of heat and wreckage in that forest, they were able to find wax from candles that hadnt burned, and find dead animals and prove that they didnt just die of the huge inferno happening around them.

You know...I always wonder that too...how do they find an arsonists match in a building reduced to nothing...how do they know that match isn't from their stashbox..errr cigarette pack.

 

[dh girlie]

Originally posted by eric strt6


Dude Your Avatar and this thread just has me rolling

That avatar is hysterical...I crack up every time I see it.

 

[Damn True]

Anybody seen Atom?

Animal sacrifice was part of the old Jewish laws of repentance. The coming of Jesus ("I bring forth a new covenant") laid those laws to rest. Salvation is no longer dependant upone deeds, but on faith. Forgiveness is no longer a function of pennance or sacrifice, but on divine grace.

Anyone that preaches something other than the above might be a bit wacky.

 

[fourgivn1]

When you begin to see Jews making animal sacrifices in their rebuilt temple, however, I'd start packing.

 

[MMike]

I still don't see that HUGE of a difference between that and "figuratively" drinking the "blood" of christ and eating the "body of christ".

 

[syadasti]

Originally posted by zibbler


Just curious, but what christians sacrafice animals? To my knowledge none. Perhaps some offshoot cult that claims to be christian based may do something like that, but AFAIK, no bible believing born again christians would EVER consider sacrafice of any living thing.

The animal sacrifices in the bible were in the Old Testament and were practiced by Jews and other pagan nations. Jesus is the founder of chritianity, and he abolished sacrifice and all the other Jewish traditions and laws.

Christianity has led to the destruction of the environment - which is a bigger issue than just a few animals. First, when Christianity replaced the old gods, many of which were nature deities, nature became nonsacred and was thus open to domination by humans. Secondly, Genesis 1:26-29, Genesis 9:1-3 and Psalms 8:5-8 say that the world was created primarily for humans. They contain an anthropocentric view that shows God as chiefly interested in humankind and giving them dominance over nature. Finally there is the fact that Christianity has a tendency to degrade nature. In Christianity, salvation is accomplished through a transcendence of an earthly identity toward a spiritual destiny. Our lives on this earth are temporary and we aim toward a better life to come. Because nature is part of earth, it is not highly valued.

Let us not forget that stupid forestry worker that started that other huge forest this summer over some relationship - now that is really bad - they are supposed to prevent fires not start them. Its stupid to judge people over one bad incident like that forestry worker or the claimed satanists.

 

[TickTock]

Man you just cant let atom go, can ya? First of all they arent satanists. Not everyone who doesnt eat bread and call it flesh and drink wine and call it blood is a satanist. Hundreds of religions worldwide use candles and animal sacrifices in their rituals. Myabe you weren't implying that but your "wheres atom" line seemed to be saying so.

Anyways, my paper says it was a westerized form of an african tradition that has been having gatherings in that area for some time now. They supposedly involve votive candles and goats and chickens. How they are proving that those candles set this particular fire is beyond me, i dont think we are getting the whole story. I doubt if it was some "good ole' christians" having a retreat we would even be hearing about the affiliation of the group involved.

I dont have any problem with people doing rituals like this. As long as they aren't going to other countires trying to convert people, telling everyone who they can or cant marry or be in love with, using guilt as a forced tactic to instill faith, or starting wars, they have a one-up in my book versus most religions around.

I dunno though, if they burned down that forest, they might get denoted one notch.

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by syadasti


Christianity has led to the destruction of the environment - which is a bigger issue than just a few animals. First, when Christianity replaced the old gods, many of which were nature deities, nature became nonsacred and was thus open to domination by humans. Secondly, Genesis 1:26-29, Genesis 9:1-3 and Psalms 8:5-8 say that the world was created primarily for humans. They contain an anthropocentric view that shows God as chiefly interested in humankind and giving them dominance over nature. Finally there is the fact that Christianity has a tendency to degrade nature. In Christianity, salvation is accomplished through a transcendence of an earthly identity toward a spiritual destiny. Our lives on this earth are temporary and we aim toward a better life to come. Because nature is part of earth, it is not highly valued.

Let us not forget that stupid forestry worker that started that other huge forest this summer over some relationship - now that is really bad - they are supposed to prevent fires not start them.

Interesting point. But so has cattle ranching. Eat meat? Wear leather?

On the subject of fires, I genuinely feel for the woman that set the signal fire that got out of control in AZ last year that wound up being part of that huge fire. The poor woman is really getting a lot of abuse for no other reason than she was lost in the woods and scared.

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by fourgivn1
When you begin to see Jews making animal sacrifices in their rebuilt temple, however, I'd start packing.

Got my ticket.

 

[jncarpenter]

Originally posted by syadasti


Christianity has led to the destruction of the environment - which is a bigger issue than just a few animals. First, when Christianity replaced the old gods, many of which were nature deities, nature became nonsacred and was thus open to domination by humans. Secondly, Genesis 1:26-29, Genesis 9:1-3 and Psalms 8:5-8 say that the world was created primarily for humans. They contain an anthropocentric view that shows God as chiefly interested in humankind and giving them dominance over nature.

Actually, although man is the pinnacle of God's creation, He cares for all of it. God created things in perfect harmony. It was man's "involvement" that started things awry. His plan for redemption includes the earth & all that is in it. Also, his giving dominion to man, was just really a form of delegated responsibility. So in truth, He holds man responsible (in part) for the care & management of His creation, under His authority in Christ. The worship of nature is just a base form of witchcraft.

 

[eric strt6]

I guess I started a fire with this thread

Oh and Happy New Year everyone

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by zibbler
The animal sacrifices in the bible were in the Old Testament and were practiced by Jews and other pagan nations. Jesus is the founder of chritianity, and he abolished sacrifice and all the other Jewish traditions and laws.

PC Patrol - it is likely that Pagens and Jews might be offended by your generalization.

 

[syadasti]

Originally posted by jncarpenter


Actually, although man is the pinnacle of God's creation, He cares for all of it. God created things in perfect harmony. It was man's "involvement" that started things awry. His plan for redemption includes the earth & all that is in it. Also, his giving dominion to man, was just really a form of delegated responsibility. So in truth, He holds man responsible (in part) for the care & management of His creation, under His authority in Christ. The worship of nature is just a base form of witchcraft.

Please provide proof because the bible says otherwise... There is lot of proof otherwise. Its just one of the list of things done in the name of god or the bible...

 

[eric strt6]

Originally posted by Serial Midget


PC Patrol - it is likely that Pagens and Jews might be offended by your generalization.

naw we don't care what other fantasy's the goyem dream up. We already think they are nuts.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by eric strt6


naw we don't care what other fantasy's the goyem dream up. We already think they are nuts.

Yet another potential conflict goes to waste. Sad, really. :angry:

The difference between a Gentile and a Jew is Jews can spell spell freaky Yiddish names. Goyem jusy doesn't look look right. I'll just assume you and your imprisoned knomes are pagen sinners.

Wow, snap judgement and irrational generalizion IS easy and fun!

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by Serial Midget


PC Patrol - it is likely that Pagens and Jews might be offended by your generalization.

Well, it ain't something I dreamed up. It's in the bible. Look it up for yourself. I'm half Jewish myself, and I didn't offend myself, and the other half of me is Gentile. I guess that puts me in a real delemna eh?

I guess that means I'm a Samaritan. Now I'm really offended! :angry:

 

[jncarpenter]

Originally posted by syadasti


Please provide proof because the bible says otherwise... There is lot of proof otherwise. Its just one of the list of things done in the name of god or the bible...

Why.........provide proof of what may I ask? I am unclear on your question..........which topic in particular are you referring to?

 

[syadasti]

Originally posted by jncarpenter



Why.........provide proof of what may I ask? I am unclear on your question..........which topic in particular are you referring to?

That the Bible doesn't say that it is ok/we are supposed to dominate/destory nature.

 

[shocktower]

Originally posted by zibbler


Well, it ain't something I dreamed up. It's in the bible. Look it up for yourself. I'm half Jewish myself, and I didn't offend myself, and the other half of me is Gentile. I guess that puts me in a real delemna eh?

I guess that means I'm a Samaritan. Now I'm really offended! :angry:

,

Because I don`t think them yentas get either ,the nose just like Howards

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by syadasti


Christianity has led to the destruction of the environment - which is a bigger issue than just a few animals. First, when Christianity replaced the old gods, many of which were nature deities, nature became nonsacred and was thus open to domination by humans. Secondly, Genesis 1:26-29, Genesis 9:1-3 and Psalms 8:5-8 say that the world was created primarily for humans. They contain an anthropocentric view that shows God as chiefly interested in humankind and giving them dominance over nature. Finally there is the fact that Christianity has a tendency to degrade nature. In Christianity, salvation is accomplished through a transcendence of an earthly identity toward a spiritual destiny. Our lives on this earth are temporary and we aim toward a better life to come. Because nature is part of earth, it is not highly valued.

Let us not forget that stupid forestry worker that started that other huge forest this summer over some relationship - now that is really bad - they are supposed to prevent fires not start them. Its stupid to judge people over one bad incident like that forestry worker or the claimed satanists.

Umm, Genesis & Psalms are pre-christian, (i.e. Judaism). I'm not sure what the Koran says but you are pointing the finger at Christianity in an unfair way. It's also not like science/capitalism (IMO the 'new religion') gives a toss about the environment...

Man is greedy & lazy, that's the bottom line.