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Musical chair game 2016 or Teh offseason prophecy

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,167
73
Israel
CST are ONZA? ..... :(
edited:
checked CST site, they dont have any tire that look like the ONZA Ibex...
not same pattern, not the same weights
 
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Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
This thread is like Fran Drescher at a strip club. At first you think she's pretty damn hot and follow her ass for the first bit. You take her in the back room.
Then she talks...

For 33 pages!

You wasted your time and walked out with a limp dick and got nothing from it.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,862
4,159
Copenhagen, Denmark
I'm pretty sure there's going to be plenty of sharpied parts on his race rig. Gwin's a monster, but let's get real... Ching chong brakes & ding dang tires... not befitting for the fastest downhiller on the planet.

Props to him though for chasing the skrilla. No shame in that and I can't believe people are calling him "selfish" on other channels. Dude earned it and should rightfully capitalize on his maximum earning potential while he's young.
Totally agree let the man make his money like the rest of us are trying to do.

Interesting how a brand like YT is stepping up. I hope its a good trend but I am sure a lot of bike shops disagree but I don't see this trend turning around the whole industry is seeing a shake up and some business models will change and new models will pop up.

TRP and Onza if they are willing to improve like he says in the interview that is pretty cool but will they have the funds to do so too. I would think TRP does and its seems like a good time to go more up market.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Honestly what a great opportunity for TRP and onza. Onza already has a decent looking mud tire and a DH tire in DH compounds. That should be good enough. A mechanic can cut the knobs on the mud spike and make it pretty similar to all the cut spikes that seem to be the rage now.

And while you could say that the brakes will be tested at the highest level, I'm not sure that the problems that normal people face will be faced by somebody like Gwin. Decent lever feel and reasonable power without air bubbles is just fine for him, but fade resistance from dragging and pad availability are something he probably doesn't need to worry about.
 
Sep 11, 2015
332
118
Interesting how a brand like YT is stepping up. I hope its a good trend but I am sure a lot of bike shops disagree but I don't see this trend turning around the whole industry is seeing a shake up and some business models will change and new models will pop up.
100 percent agree. I'd wager we'll see a decline in the number of brick-and-mortar bicycle retailers in the coming years. The ones that will stick around are the ones that will adapt to the changing landscape of bike retail.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,001
1,693
Northern California
Not sure all the skepticism of Onza tires here is justified. They're currently made at CST using the same compounds and casing materials that go into the tires of Maxxis, Specialized, Bontrager, etc.

Onza actually got CST to build some tires using tech that Maxxis only followed with later and Specialized still doesn't do. If they're willing to work with Gwin on the treads that he wants (and has a good idea of what treads work for him) then he should be plenty well set on the tire side of things. Not that the current treads are horrible. Maybe he's already happy with them.
Based on your knowledge here, any comments on CST's name brand tires - http://www.csttires.com/int/bike/mountain-bike-tire/
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
100 percent agree. I'd wager we'll see a decline in the number of brick-and-mortar bicycle retailers in the coming years. The ones that will stick around are the ones that will adapt to the changing landscape of bike retail.
The service side of bike maintenance and the incessant reminders of the mechanical aptitude of the average human pretty much guarantees their continued existence in my mind. I mean people in general are just really really bad at things.
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,010
1,146
El Lay
CST makes all those brands' tires. They are the factory. Cheng Shin Tire also owns Maxxis as their "high end" brand alongside the more budget CST branded.

CST are ONZA? ..... :(
edited:
checked CST site, they dont have any tire that look like the ONZA Ibex...
not same pattern, not the same weights
 

wydopen

Turbo Monkey
Jan 16, 2005
1,229
60
805
pad availability are something he probably doesn't need to worry about.
Zee compatible I believe...

Seems like most of the people I've seen commenting on the various articles haven't bothered to read or listen to any of the interviews...he clearly stated that he values a company's willingness to take his feedback and make changes higher than a company that might have a better product but isn't as open to changes....he was specifically talking about the brakes and tires as he said most tire companies only have one good design in their range and he would rather have input in developing a more well rounded range...Ive been wanting to try some onzas...sounds like by next year there should be some good new ones out...
 
Sep 11, 2015
332
118
The service side of bike maintenance and the incessant reminders of the mechanical aptitude of the average human pretty much guarantees their continued existence in my mind. I mean people in general are just really really bad at things.
Yeah, guarantees the continued existence of the shops that have good service departments. That's what I meant by "the ones that adapt." The shops that elevate their level of service are the ones that will stick around. The ones who fail to invest in providing the highest levels of service will go out of business while they whine that it's the Internet's fault.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,862
4,159
Copenhagen, Denmark
Yeah, guarantees the continued existence of the shops that have good service departments. That's what I meant by "the ones that adapt." The shops that elevate their level of service are the ones that will stick around. The ones who fail to invest in providing the highest levels of service will go out of business while they whine that it's the Internet's fault.
Totally and make the service department a more prominent part of the business that is not just stuck in the back of the shop. Btw fitting, suspension setup etc there is a lot of value for the customers and you should look at the life time earning on a customers not just one bike sale.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,883
448
Not sure all the skepticism of Onza tires here is justified. They're currently made at CST using the same compounds and casing materials that go into the tires of Maxxis, Specialized, Bontrager, etc.
image.jpeg

Thanks for the clarification! In that case, and knowing that Gwin will have so much input, I'm excited to see what they come up with
 

Cant Climb

Turbo Monkey
May 9, 2004
2,683
10
Is cheng-shin really going to build any tire that surpasses its top dog (Maxxis)......?...ONZA might fit into a budget tier.....
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Is cheng-shin really going to build any tire that surpasses its top dog (Maxxis)..
Yup.

They say "bontrager" and "specialized" on the sides of them.




CST does not own/run/constitute onza or any of the other companies who's tires they make. They're just a manufacturing contractor. Just like anodizing inc and all the other portland fabrication shops made aluminum frames for other frame companies. Someone wanting to make a tire goes to CST with a design, shops their compounds and casings and puts in an order. Onza getting a better tire than something from maxxis isn't CST competing with itself exactly, its fulfilling their business role as a contracted tire fabricator. And someone like onza can use a design that's protected from CST throwing it in a maxxis tire.....at least for a while.
 
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4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,883
448
Is cheng-shin really going to build any tire that surpasses its top dog (Maxxis)......?...ONZA might fit into a budget tier.....
I'd say specialized and bonchwanker both have tires that are at least as good as Maxxis' best tires. Why would it be any different for Onza?
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,289
5,029
Ottawa, Canada
I seem to remember reading that CST created Maxxis as a way to showcase their technical know-how and production abilities. Not as a for-profit race winning tire company. That's probably paraphrasing a little bit, but that's the gist of what I remember.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Maxxis tires are good because the OEM customers spoon feed CST market trends and introduce new technologies to them. Taiwan reverse engineers what they see in the broader market. Walk thru the Taiwan section of any trade show to understand this.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Well maxxis treads are good because of the people they had designing tires. Their good designs are mostly 'legacy' now but those came directly from north america, directly from atlanta. And you can definitely tell at what point in time those guys left :rofl:

Things like the minions, the high rollers etc. weren't reverse engineered anything. Those were just good ideas straight from maxxis and people affiliated with them.
 

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
And merida and giant make frames that don't say merida or giant on the downtube that are better than the ones that do. It's not any different.
It's quite different for things like pricing and R&D. An in-house brand has a big advantage there compared to 3rd parties contracting with them to make product.

This is why companies such as Santa Cruz and Specialized basically have their own carbon frame factories these days. No other brands go through, just theirs. Other factories you can see 5-6 different brands all being made at the same place.

Maxxis tires should be cheap! Don't know what happened there, maybe a case of Special-itus?
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Well maxxis treads are good because of the people they had designing tires. Their good designs are mostly 'legacy' now but those came directly from north america, directly from atlanta. And you can definitely tell at what point in time those guys left :rofl:

Things like the minions, the high rollers etc. weren't reverse engineered anything. Those were just good ideas straight from maxxis and people affiliated with them.
I know, I was just oversimplifying.
Basically nothing cool/relevant originates in Taiwan without input from outside.
OEM customers are the R&D /marketing division for the Taiwan house brands.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
It's quite different for things like pricing and R&D. An in-house brand has a big advantage there compared to 3rd parties contracting with them to make product.
Of course. But that still doesn't mean onza is the same thing as CST or that onza won't end up with a better product than what gets sold as maxxis (which is where my comments on this began). My guess is that CST is a manufacturing plant that just decided to have two brand levels running from the house. But their priority is still making tires for other people.


And hey when you see something like a tomahawk or a griffon, you should know immediately that the competitive playing field is WIDE OPEN with the CST home brand :rofl:
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,538
5,470
UK
Maxxis wasn't formed on the one idea: "let's copy a Comp 16 but try not to make it obvious enough to have to pay anybody at Michelin?"
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,538
5,470
UK
Wasn't being 100% serious.

Grip wise it totally depends on the conditions.
I don't really like Highrollers in any conditions but I'd still happily run a comp 16 in UK slop.
Dual ply carcass held up better than the old Michies did tho.