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Need some RM help......

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
Spent some time trying to figure out what to do bike-wise and I think I'm going to keep my existing Ironhorse MKIII. For the trails I ride it works pretty well.

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/bikes/freeride-full-suspension/iron-horse/mk-iii-expert/prd_365333_1543crx.aspx

I have a ton of questions though as I've been out of the game a while. Hopefully you can help.

1. What do I need to know to replace the existing Progressive 5th Element Air rear shock? I would like to put something beefier in with a possible lock-out.

2. Do I need to buy Hayes Specific rotors?

3. Can I change my 6" brakes to 7" if I buy a different adapter for the fork and frame?

4. What tires are you running on a trail/xc bike? Mine are old and will need to be changed soon.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
23,927
14,442
where the trails are
1. What do I need to know to replace the existing Progressive 5th Element Air rear shock? I would like to put something beefier in with a possible lock-out. (you need to know the size (eye-to-eye length, and stroke ... EDIT it's 7.5 x 2", super common size)

2. Do I need to buy Hayes Specific rotors? (not necessarily, but if budget allows consider updating brakes)

3. Can I change my 6" brakes to 7" if I buy a different adapter for the fork and frame? (you need the correct adapter and the new larger rotors. I might have the adapters for you in the garage)

4. What tires are you running on a trail/xc bike? Mine are old and will need to be changed soon. (Maxxis Minions or High Rollers)
 
Last edited:

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout
1. What do I need to know to replace the existing Progressive 5th Element Air rear shock? I would like to put something beefier in with a possible lock-out. (you need to know the size (eye-to-eye length, and stroke)

2. Do I need to buy Hayes Specific rotors? (not necessarily, but if budget allows consider updating brakes)

3. Can I change my 6" brakes to 7" if I buy a different adapter for the fork and frame? (you need the correct adapter and the new larger rotors. I might have the adapters for you in the garage)

4. What tires are you running on a trail/xc bike? Mine are old and will need to be changed soon. (Maxxis Minions or High Rollers)
1 - don't forget shock tune / progression rate

2 - with XT's so cheap, no reason NOT to update.

3 - do it

4 - maxxis advantage 2.4 front (no longer available in this size), Minion SS in the back.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
1. What do I need to know to replace the existing Progressive 5th Element Air rear shock? I would like to put something beefier in with a possible lock-out. (you need to know the size (eye-to-eye length, and stroke) Cool thanks! - Just did a search, looks like it's 7.5 EtoE and 2" stroke.

2. Do I need to buy Hayes Specific rotors? (not necessarily, but if budget allows consider updating brakes) Why?

3. Can I change my 6" brakes to 7" if I buy a different adapter for the fork and frame? (you need the correct adapter and the new larger rotors. I might have the adapters for you in the garage) Oh really????

4. What tires are you running on a trail/xc bike? Mine are old and will need to be changed soon. (Maxxis Minions or High Rollers) Front and back?
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
damping rate. IIRC the old IH DW links had needed a special tune. If you get a shock without the right tune it could be too stiff or just blow through travel, even with the right spring rate.
:( Oh man thanks for the heads up. I've never tuned this one correctly.
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,799
8,383
Nowhere Man!
I replaced my Fifth Element with a Fox DHX on my MKIII. I had to have it valved for the high compression ratio. The Fox made it feel like a new bike. I called Iron Horse before they went under and they ordered my shock from Fox. I do not know if you could call Fox or Push and have them make you one. I got rid of the Hayes brakes after a week of owning it. They were assy out of the box. The other thing I did to improve mine was a lighter tubeless wheelset after I destroyed the pike. Replaced that with a coil Fox Fork. I regret selling that fork. It lives on, on the Kamado however....
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
I replaced my Fifth Element with a Fox DHX on my MKIII. I had to have it valved for the high compression ratio. The Fox made it feel like a new bike. I called Iron Horse before they went under and they ordered my shock from Fox. I do not know if you could call Fox or Push and have them make you one. I got rid of the Hayes brakes after a week of owning it. They were assy out of the box. The other thing I did to improve mine was a lighter tubeless wheelset after I destroyed the pike. Replaced that with a coil Fox Fork. I regret selling that fork. It lives on, on the Kamado however....
Thanks for the info. All this sounds expensive...... Trying to get back into this without investing my life savings.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
Avalanche for teh current shock? I know they do 5th element, just not sure about which ones and if they're into the xc side of things.
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,799
8,383
Nowhere Man!
Thanks for the info. All this sounds expensive...... Trying to get back into this without investing my life savings.
I sold mine while the gettin was good. I got $400 for the frame alone. About $300 for the box of parts. I don't miss it. The thought of servicing the pivots and Boxxer make me cringe. Get a older steel hardtail and rediscover the joys of cycling. A Pump Track on a rigid hardtail is a blast....
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,516
7,064
Colorado
Avalanche for teh current shock? I know they do 5th element, just not sure about which ones and if they're into the xc side of things.
5th element air will be hard. they definitely do coil though. A rebuilt blown Fox through Push is likely the way to go.

2. Do I need to buy Hayes Specific rotors?

3. Can I change my 6" brakes to 7" if I buy a different adapter for the fork and frame?
If you end up going new brakes, I have some Formulas that I would sell for cheap, assuming you are using post mount. If Nick has adapters, go that way. I might have some Hayes rotors, but they will need to be shaped some.

I have a rear hanger too. I can get that to Nick if he's sending parts.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
I sold mine while the gettin was good. I got $400 for the frame alone. About $300 for the box of parts. I don't miss it. The thought of servicing the pivots and Boxxer make me cringe. Get a older steel hardtail and rediscover the joys of cycling. A Pump Track on a rigid hardtail is a blast....
I was thinking about a steel hard tail. I loved mine.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2011/04/iron-horse-mkiii-2007.html

You'll probably look at this and go "huh?" but it's a representation of the linkage curve and therefore the shock tune that you need. Based on this, it's not too progressive then regressive, so I would go with a small volume air can with a single, small spacer, and a Low/low compression/rebound tune.

Most modern shocks come with a single volume air can that has a large negative spring, which will help the bike ride better. Then you either get an "a" or "L" tune, for light compression damping and light rebound. Slap a spacer or bands in there if you have time, and you should be good to go.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cane-Creek-Double-Barrel-Air-Mountain-Bike-Rear-Suspension-Shock-7-5-x-2-MTB/352172624700?hash=item51ff1fcb3c:g:zJMAAOSwl75Ztrwt

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2017-FOX-Factory-Float-DPS-EVOL-Shock-7-5-x-2-0-190-x-51-449-Retail/142421914542?epid=22003720089&hash=item212901f3ae:g:7yoAAOSw1~JZSr7l

I think these should work. The EVOL or Debonair air can will make it feel smoother off the top with good bottom out resistance, and a low compression/mid rebound should work OK unless you're very light.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2011/04/iron-horse-mkiii-2007.html

You'll probably look at this and go "huh?" but it's a representation of the linkage curve and therefore the shock tune that you need. Based on this, it's not too progressive then regressive, so I would go with a small volume air can with a single, small spacer, and a Low/low compression/rebound tune.

Most modern shocks come with a single volume air can that has a large negative spring, which will help the bike ride better. Then you either get an "a" or "L" tune, for light compression damping and light rebound. Slap a spacer or bands in there if you have time, and you should be good to go.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cane-Creek-Double-Barrel-Air-Mountain-Bike-Rear-Suspension-Shock-7-5-x-2-MTB/352172624700?hash=item51ff1fcb3c:g:zJMAAOSwl75Ztrwt

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2017-FOX-Factory-Float-DPS-EVOL-Shock-7-5-x-2-0-190-x-51-449-Retail/142421914542?epid=22003720089&hash=item212901f3ae:g:7yoAAOSw1~JZSr7l

I think these should work. The EVOL or Debonair air can will make it feel smoother off the top with good bottom out resistance, and a low compression/mid rebound should work OK unless you're very light.
Those are great, I am the opposite of very light. Thus the reason I'm looking for a new rear shock.