[kidwoo]

Have to admit, now that I enjoy a TT length/reach (and steep ST angle) that would have been unthinkable (for me) six years ago, I no longer think I would ever use the Talas anymore. My front wheel stays damn planted on climbs now, in general.

I've said this a million times here: it has nothing to do with the travel adjust. The air spring is better than the floats because of the itty bitty air chamber seals.

I don't use the talas feature. It just rides better.

They only made them like that in the very last iteration.

 

[jstuhlman]

Most were garbage

The last two years were insanely good.

i had one. i put it on an old jackal for a "do stupid shit" bike. it was fun for a minute.

 

[maxyedor]

Had one of those last model year Talas 36s, thing was tits!

Has anybody bitched about the lack of a 20mm axle on the 38? I assume someone, or several someone’s have, I hope it was an eloquent take down of that dumbtarded decision

 

[kidwoo]

It's literally the one thing that will keep me from buying one.

 

[HAB]

I wanted the 38 to be a dual crown

 

[buckoW]

Had one of those last model year Talas 36s, thing was tits!

Has anybody bitched about the lack of a 20mm axle on the 38? I assume someone, or several someone’s have, I hope it was an eloquent take down of that dumbtarded decision

I did.

 

[toodles]

It's literally the one thing that will keep me from buying one.

Same. I refuse to buy anything since the Z1 that doesn't have mounts for dual disc brakes, because I'm so gnarcore I need them. I can feel the #flex if I'm not running a 26" Mavic 521 wheel with a 20mm bolt through. Everything since that pinnacle of technological development has been a compromise.

Seriously, who gives a fuck about an axle standard that hasn't been needed in 10 years for anyone but a bunch of whingers on forums. Its a friggen single crown. If you're doing anything that "NEEDS" 20mm axle then you *NEED* dual crown

 

[kidwoo]

Can'tclearatabletopguysayswhat?






2mm stanchion diff=hay guys, you guys!

5mm axle diff=pssh, as if

 

[buckoW]

Seriously, who gives a fuck about an axle standard that hasn't been needed in 10 years for anyone but a bunch of whingers on forums. Its a friggen single crown. If you're doing anything that "NEEDS" 20mm axle then you *NEED* dual crown

Agree to disagree? 20mm is better for reasons (in my world).

 

[Jm_]

I always call bullsh*t on that. 20mm vs 15mm axle doesn't make any significant difference in the world of 1.5 steerers with massive crowns connected to 38mm stanchions and massive once-piece lowers. It makes you "feel good" and yeah, changing the standard was dumb, but it doesn't add any significant strength/stiffness to the fork, that's done by all those other features.

Yeah, back in the 2000s when we had bolt on brake arches and then dumbass cyrofit "M" arches, likely significant given the QR alternative. I ran more than a couple QR DC forks, with BMX axles much of the time, vastly stiffer than the SC forks. Could have been better with a TA?, sure, but I highly doubt 15 vs. 20mm would have made any difference. As long as there is a decent size TA to provide the connection opposite to the brake arch and crown, it doesn't matter if it's 15, 18 20, IME.

I guess what I'm saying is if I was shopping for a stiff fork, there are things that I'd prioritize a lot more, like stanchion size, fore-aft stiffness, because the 15 vs. 20 simply doesn't make much difference.

If you want to fight it just on principle, because "changing standards", well then more power to you.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

I didn't realise until now that the VVC on the compression damping side is just stiffening the high speed stack and that there is no way to adjust the preload.
That's a pretty big change!

Is there some preload build into the stack? Maybe @buckoW knows?

 

[Nick]

As long as there is a decent size TA to provide the connection opposite to the brake arch and crown, it doesn't matter if it's 15, 18 20, IME

You've said to much....

 

[jonKranked]

i think the point most people are getting at is that if Fox was trying to make the stiffest single crown fork they could, why wouldn't they use every option available?

 

[dan-o]

i think the point most people are getting at is that if Fox was trying to make the stiffest single crown fork they could, why wouldn't they use every option available?

Perhaps the new chassis is so stiff that there's no appreciable difference between 15 -20 axles, other than added weight.

 

[Jm_]

Torsional is important, but I feel not enough people appreciate fore-aft and binding inherent to long-travel, especially 29er, single crown forks.

 

[canadmos]

What about the increased clamping area on 20mm vs 15mm axles? Oh wait quick release....

 

[kidwoo]

I always call bullsh*t on that. 20mm vs 15mm axle doesn't make any significant difference in the world of 1.5 steerers with massive crowns connected to 38mm stanchions and massive once-piece lowers. It makes you "feel good" and yeah,

You are completely wrong.

You know there are forks you can switch between 15 and 20mm axles right? Some of us have done that.

Same fork, same bike, same wheels. Forks with 20mm axles twist less. That's cool you don't notice it. But it's a thing.

I can 'call bullshit' all day long about your shiverS, screaming moto this, moto that but you damn well know they twist more. So much so that you constantly bring it up. So it must be important!

 

[Jm_]

You are completely wrong.

You know there are forks you can switch between 15 and 20mm axles right? Some of us have done that.

Same fork, same bike, same wheels. Forks with 20mm axles twist less. That's cool you don't notice it. But it's a thing.

I can 'call bullshit' all day long about your shiverS, screaming moto this, moto that but you damn well know they twist more. So much so that you constantly bring it up. So it must be important!

But the majority of twist is happening in the legs. Bushing tolerances, stanchion size, crown size/shape/clamping area, etc. This is where the brake arch comes in. Even if the axle is completely rigid, it still lets the wheel flex side to side due to the legs.

 

[kidwoo]

But the majority of twist is happening in the legs. Bushing tolerances, stanchion size, crown size/shape/clamping area, etc. This is where the brake arch comes in. Even if the axle is completely rigid, it still lets the wheel flex side to side due to the legs.

You want me to mail you a 36 with both axle bolts?

These forks weigh like 6lbs. For what they're built for doing, that's insane. Yes. They flex. And bigger clamping surface at the end of those two levers at the lowers makes a noticeable and positive difference. The same forces that flex your shiverS, are also hitting a wheel on one these things. Everything you mention matters, but somehow the connection point that supposed to equalize the additional leverage forces of a bigass wheel deflecting off rocks doesn't? You know that doesn't make sense.

 

[Bikael Molton]

It’s news to me than any single crown has been available in 20mm in the last decade.

 

[kidwoo]

It’s news to me than any single crown has been available in 20mm in the last decade.

Fox

That's the problem. Unless people have one of the forks with those lowers, they've forgotten what a 20mm single crown rides like. Fox 36s are more noodles than they were 12 years ago. Things ain't getting stiffer. They're getting lighter and more optimized for specific load directions. Is it really so unfathomable that some other aspects are suffering?

 

[jonKranked]

i've got a 36 that can run both axle sizes. can confirm a noticeable difference.

 

[Westy]

i think the point most people are getting at is that if Fox was trying to make the stiffest single crown fork they could, why wouldn't they use every option available?

Just don't boost

 

[kidwoo]

i've got a 36 that can run both axle sizes. can confirm a noticeable difference.

If I really wanted to prove a point, I could go back a few years and quote a lot of the same people telling others they're crazy if they think they can tell a difference between a 1.5 tapered steerer tube and a 1 1/8" on something like a totem.

Same deal, the only people who say that haven't actually switched them on the same bike/fork so have no idea.

 

[Jm_]

Last SC one I had was a 35mm 66 w/20. I can't tell any differences with something like a modern Pike/Lyrik. My 32 SC is flexy, but 32mm stanchions, that crown and duh...it serves a purpose though, my 34 SC is noticeably more rigid. Would 20mm make the 32 SC more rigid? I have to say F-no.

IMO, you'd have to have an interface as beefy as the crown/stanchion down near the axle to really make a rigid fork that acts as one unit, AND the stanchion size that'll keep the legs (stanchions and lowers) rigid, in which case you could probably eliminate the brake arch. Since that'll never really be possible, the stiffness and strength has to come from the other parts that contribute.

I think flexy metal wheels have more to do with what people feel up front.

 

[HAB]

Cool, so we're agreed you haven't compared at all similar forks with both axles? Good talk.

The axle size certainly isn't the be all, end all. 'woo is very correct that the 36 has gotten a shitload lighter, and consequently a lot less stiff, even when it's still got a 20mm axle. Hopefully the 38 is significantly better there (and, the fact that it uses an internal sleeve for the air spring hopefully means it'll bind up a little less, even if the chassis is flexing similarly).

I still wanted the 38 to be a lighter dual crown. With a 20mm axle.

 

[Jm_]

Cool, so we're agreed you haven't compared at all similar forks with both axles? Good talk.

Has anyone been able to do that in the last 10 years? Maybe 3 people.

 

[HAB]

Has anyone been able to do that in the last 10 years? Maybe 3 people.

Nah, as has been noted here, Fox made – from the 2015 model year through like a week ago when they released the latest version – a version of the 36 that had a 20mm axle with inserts that you could install to use a 15mm axle with. Literally the same fork. There are at least four people in this thread who've tried both.

 

[Westy]

I am going to guess Fox did not offer a 20mm axle because of business reasons and not because of technical reasons. Looking at the 20mm wheel/hub options out there it is limited, if no OEM bike manufacturer was pining for a 20mm axle option it was probably not going to be profitable to offer an after market option for a fraction of the customer base.

 

[Bikael Molton]

I'd happily run a 20mm front hub. And I'd prefer to have fewer than 4 bolts attaching the axle.

 

[kidwoo]

I am going to guess Fox did not offer a 20mm axle because of business reasons and not because of technical reasons. Looking at the 20mm wheel/hub options out there it is limited, if no OEM bike manufacturer was pining for a 20mm axle option it was probably not going to be profitable to offer an after market option for a fraction of the customer base.

Fox and RS have literally made one off fork designs for one model for one manufacturer. Offset, stupid giant steerer tube etc....

So yeah, it's definitely for manufacturing savings and not for performance. Don't kid yourself though. Still lots of 20mm hubs available. This stupid industry just came up with another 20mm boost standard too. If not the old one, they have the specs for the new one.

See how significant it is? I just agreed to a boost standard.

 

[marshalolson]

Just a guess, but since most volume is in prebuilt bikes, not aftermarket, there was Not enough OEM volume from frame manufacturers and/or not enough OEM wheel support to justify 2 versions or conversion-able dropout on the 38.

ie specialized and trek didn’t order it, and DT doesn’t support it (as a prebuilt wheel)

 

[kidwoo]

Just a guess, but since most volume is in prebuilt bikes, not aftermarket, there was Not enough OEM volume from frame manufacturers and/or not enough OEM wheel support to justify 2 versions or conversion-able dropout on the 38.

chicken........ egg

No bike maker is going to order a fork UNTIL fox says it exists. Fox takes the first step in that one.

I guess the wheel thing is a little different. I can fully see fox/specialized thinking they need to make a 15mm axle fork because getting a 20mm hub costs 0.025c more. After watching this system just go through 12 different BB standards, 9 new hub standards, 11 new headset standards and completely inventing a new wheel size..........that's still a completely bullshit argument though wouldn't you say? If they can convince a dentist on wednesday to buy it for saturday, they'd make it.

They need to just go 22mm. Because going back to 20 would be admitting a mistake, which at this point, is the only reason I can think they've dug in so hard.

 

[canadmos]

Guys, I have a Fox 36 for sale that can do both the 20 and 15mm axles. Someone buy it and do a real test.

 

[kidwoo]

Guys, I have a Fox 36 for sale that can do both the 20 and 15mm axles. Someone buy it and do a real test.

Lots of us did. Years ago.

 

[jonKranked]

Guys, I have a Fox 36 for sale that can do both the 20 and 15mm axles. Someone buy it and do a real test.

kidwoo and i both already have done the test. he might even buy your 36.

 

[jonKranked]

Lots of us did. Years ago.

i only did the test last year. i'm just behind the times.

 

[canadmos]

Well clearly some people still need to be convinced. Fork is still for sale.

Its actually one of the forks from that awesome deal back in 2015ish that a lot of us purchased here. You know, the ones with the harsh compression...

 

[jonKranked]

Well clearly some people still need to be convinced. Fork is still for sale.

Its actually one of the forks from that awesome deal back in 2015ish that a lot of us purchased here. You know, the ones with the harsh compression...

that was a fun thread

2015+ fox 36 harsh

Im having a hard time getting the fox 36 rc2 to feel right. Im running about 50 psi, 2 clicks of hsc, 4 clicks of lsc and im about 150 with full gear. Its harsh and not nearly as plush as i wouldve expected. Some have said early 2015 needed the damper upgraded. Others have said from the...

ridemonkey.bikemag.com

what was the verdict on that again?

 

[HAB]

Well clearly some people still need to be convinced. Fork is still for sale.

Its actually one of the forks from that awesome deal back in 2015ish that a lot of us purchased here. You know, the ones with the harsh compression...

Got a link? I could maybe go for another one.