[Silver]

A few interesting developments:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm

We received yesterday at the Rome conference permission from the world... to continue the operation," Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon said.

Mr Ramon - a close confidant of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert - said "everyone understands that a victory for Hezbollah is a victory for world terror".

He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops moved in.

He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter.

"All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Mr Ramon said.

Odd that. So not leaving your home makes you a valid target?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5223940.stm

That comment from Ramon led to a pissed off response from a State Department spokesman. In other news, Condi's still out there doing...something?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Go Israel!!!!

 

[MMike]

Isreal is a bunch of thugs, who are completely out of line. They are terrorists fighting terrorists, (and civilians)......

 

[Echo]

"All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Mr Ramon said. [/I]

Odd that. So not leaving your home makes you a valid target?

It sure would suck to be an elderly or disabled person with no relatives nearby to help in southern Lebanon right now.

 

[kidwoo]

It sure would suck to be an elderly or disabled person with no relatives nearby to help in southern Lebanon right now.

Well if they were repsonsible they wouldn't have gotten old and becaume default terrorists.

No sympathy. They make their own beds.

 

[fluff]

Another very interesting BBC article looking at the history of Israel in Lebanon:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5222154.stm

 

[Greyhound]

Isreal is a bunch of thugs, who are completely out of line. They are terrorists fighting terrorists, (and civilians)......

:nonono: **sigh**

I still can't believe people think like this. But, it's your opinion, and you're completely entitled to it. Maybe I can change your mind with a few statements and facts.

If Hezbolla lays down their weapons, there is peace, if Isreal lays down their weapons, there is no more Isreal.

Here's a bit of the highlight reel for why Hezbolla needs to be eradicated, in case you guys might have missed the last 3 decades:

November 1979: Muslim extremists (Iranian variety) seized the U.S. embassy in Iran and held 52 American hostages for 444 days, following Democrat Jimmy Carter's masterful foreign policy granting Islamic fanaticism its first real foothold in the Middle East.


1982: Muslim extremists (mostly Hezbollah) began a nearly decade-long habit of taking Americans and Europeans hostage in Lebanon, killing William Buckley and holding Terry Anderson for 6 1/2 years.


April 1983: Muslim extremists (Islamic Jihad or possibly Hezbollah) bombed the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, killing 16 Americans.


October 1983: Muslim extremists (Hezbollah) blew up the U.S. Marine barracks at the Beirut airport, killing 241 Marines.


December 1983: Muslim extremists (al-Dawa) blew up the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait, killing five and injuring 80.


September 1984: Muslim extremists (Hezbollah) exploded a truck bomb at the U.S. Embassy annex in Beirut, killing 24 people, including two U.S. servicemen.


December 1984: Muslim extremists (probably Hezbollah) hijacked a Kuwait Airways airplane, landed in Iran and demanded the release of the 17 members of al-Dawa who had been arrested for the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait, killing two Americans before the siege was over.


June 14, 1985: Muslim extremists (Hezbollah) hijacked TWA Flight 847 out of Athens, diverting it to Beirut, taking the passengers hostage in return for the release of the Kuwait 17 as well as another 700 prisoners held by Israel. When their demands were not met, the Muslims shot U.S. Navy diver Robert Dean Stethem and dumped his body on the tarmac.


October 1985: Muslim extremists (Palestine Liberation Front backed by Libya) seized an Italian cruise ship, the Achille Lauro, killing 69-year-old American Leon Klinghoffer by shooting him and then tossing his body overboard.


December 1985: Muslim extremists (backed by Libya) bombed airports in Rome and Vienna, killing 20 people, including five Americans.

April 1986: Muslim extremists (backed by Libya) bombed a discotheque frequented by U.S. servicemen in West Berlin, injuring hundreds and killing two, including a U.S. soldier.


December 1988: Muslim extremists (backed by Libya) bombed Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing all 259 on board and 11 on the ground.

(Then came an amazing, historic pause in Muslim extremists' relentless war on America after Ronald Reagan won the Cold War by doing the opposite of everything recommended by Democrats, depriving Islamic terrorists of their Soviet sponsors. This confuses liberals because they don't understand the concept of terror sponsors, whether it's the Soviet Union or Iraq.)


February 1993: Muslim extremists (al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, possibly with involvement of friendly rival al-Qaida) set off a bomb in the basement of the World Trade Center, killing six and wounding more than 1,000.


Spring 1993: Muslim extremists (al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, the Sudanese Islamic Front and at least one member of Hamas) plot to blow up the Lincoln and Holland tunnels, the U.N. complex, and the FBI's lower Manhattan headquarters.


November 1995: Muslim extremists (possibly Iranian "Party of God") explode a car bomb at U.S. military headquarters in Saudi Arabia, killing five U.S. military servicemen.


June 1996: Muslim extremists (13 Saudis and a Lebanese member of Hezbollah, probably with involvement of al-Qaida) explode a truck bomb outside the Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds.


August 1998: Muslim extremists (al-Qaida) explode truck bombs at U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, killing 224 and injuring thousands.


October 2000: Muslim extremists (al-Qaida) blow up the U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole, killing 17 U.S. sailors.


Sept. 11, 2001: Muslim extremists (al-Qaida) hijack commercial aircraft and fly planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania, killing nearly 3,000 Americans.

 

[Silver]

My God, you're right.

It's time to just kill all the Muslims. Problem solved. Then we'll get the gooks in North Korea, to scare the chinks back into line...why couldn't I see this before?

 

[Greyhound]

I'd like to also add an essay written by Thomas Sowell that will help some of you get this into perspective about just what war really is.

....And I'll preface it with a snippet from Gen. Douglas MacArthur: "....In war, there is no substitute for victory."


Then and now
By Thomas Sowell
Tuesday, July 25, 2006


Those of us old enough to remember World War II face many painful reminders of how things have changed in Americans' behavior during a war. Back then, the president's defeated opponent in the 1940 election -- Wendell Wilkie -- not only supported the war, he became a personal envoy from President Roosevelt to Britain's Prime Minister Winston Churchill.

We were all in it together -- and we knew it. People who had been highly critical of American foreign policy before we were attacked at Pearl Harbor now fell silent and devoted themselves to winning the war.

What if the people, institutions, and attitudes of today were somehow taken back in time to World War II? What would have been the result? Would we have ended up winning or losing that war?

What about the great cry of the hour, a cease fire?

It so happens that World War II had the biggest cease fire in history. It was called "the phony war" because, although France was officially at war with Germany, the French did very little fighting for months, while the bulk of the German army was in Poland and France had overwhelming military superiority on the western front.

Famed correspondent William L. Shirer reported on the "unreal" western front, with soldiers "on both sides looking but not shooting." German soldiers bathed in the Rhine and waved to French soldiers on the other side, who waved back.

During this period Hitler offered to negotiate peace with France and England.

Kofi Anan would have loved it.

On November 19, 1939, Shirer's diary reported: "For almost two months now there has been no military action on land, sea, or in the air." On January 1, 1940, he wrote, "this phony kind of war cannot continue long." But it was now exactly four months since war was declared. How is that for a cease fire?

Did this de facto cease fire lead to peace? No. Like other cease fires, it helped the aggressor.

It gave Hitler time to move his divisions from the eastern front, after they had conquered Poland, to the western front, facing France.

Now that military superiority along the Rhine had shifted in favor of the German armies, the war suddenly went from being phony to being devastatingly real.

Hitler attacked and France collapsed in six weeks.


Eventually, by 1945, allied armies had both Germany and Japan retreating. What would have happened if we had had Kofi Anan and the mushy mindset called "world opinion" at work then?

Kofi Anan would undoubtedly have called for a cease fire.

He could have pointed out that the American response to Germany was wholly "disproportionate" because the Germans had never landed troops in America or bombed American cities, and were certainly no real threat to the United States at that point.

Much of the Japanese navy was at the bottom of the ocean by this time and most of their planes had been shot down. Why not a negotiated settlement, in order to spare innocent civilian lives?

And what if we had listened to such talk?

No doubt Germany and Japan would have signed some kind of negotiated agreement in order to get the allied armies off their backs and get some breathing room.

Both Germany and Japan had programs to try to build nuclear bombs. One of the Nazis' last acts before surrendering was to send material by submarine to Japan to help advance their nuclear program.

Any peace we might have negotiated with Japan would have given the Japanese time to develop not only nuclear technology but also war planes whose plans had been gotten from Germany, which had the most advanced planes in the world at that time.

There is not the slightest doubt that Japan would not have had the slightest hesitation to drop nuclear bombs on American cities. And they would not have come back in later years to wring their hands at what they had done, as too many American have done at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

But we didn't cease firing until our enemies were defeated. Kofi Anan and today's "world opinion" would not have liked that.

 

[Greyhound]

My God, you're right.

It's time to just kill all the Muslims. Problem solved. Then we'll get the gooks in North Korea, to scare the chinks back into line...why couldn't I see this before?

Derrogatory references aside, I mentioned nothing about those countries, nor the eradication of all the Muslims......if you want to put words in someones mouth, you would be best to try it with someone else......I'm not down with that game.

I think a lot of you are deluded to the threat these people pose to our civilization and the implications of ANY defeat of our allies in this proxy war.

 

[MMike]

:nonono: **sigh**

s.

Did you read the article fluff posted? Chicken or egg.

n 1982, Lebanon's majority Shia community - fed up with paying the price for Palestinian guerrilla adventures against Israel - initially welcomed the Israeli intervention.

But its increasing resentment against the continuing Israeli occupation provided fertile ground for Iran and Syria to encourage the formation of a vehicle that was to prove both deadly and effective in driving the Israelis out: Hezbollah, which did not exist before the invasion.

There is NO good guy in this....

 

[MMike]

Derrogatory references aside, I mentioned nothing about those countries, nor the eradication of all the Muslims......if you want to put words in someones mouth, you would be best to try it with someone else......I'm not down with that game.

I think a lot of you are deluded to the threat these people pose to our civilization and the implications of ANY defeat of our allies in this proxy war.

You HONESTLY think Isreal is doing just what needs to be done? They blew a UN office ON PURPOSE.... that had civilians in it. They are blowing up kids. They are having THEIR kids write hate messages on bombs to be dropped.....on Lebanese civilians.... How seriously effed up is that?

 

[N8 v2.0]

My God, you're right.

It's time to just kill all the Muslims. Problem solved. Then we'll get the gooks in North Korea, to scare the chinks back into line...why couldn't I see this before?

I think you mean to say, "Time to kill some militant muslims..."

 

[N8 v2.0]

Another very interesting BBC article looking at the history of Israel in Lebanon:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5222154.stm

The BBC always have been anti Isreali...

 

[Silver]

You HONESTLY think Isreal is doing just what needs to be done? They blew a UN office ON PURPOSE.... that had civilians in it. They are blowing up kids. They are having THEIR kids write hate messages on bombs to be dropped.....on Lebanese civilians.... How seriously effed up is that?

C'mon. Those kids that got blown up would have just grown up to be Hezbollah sympathizers.

Why do you hate Jews so much?

 

[MMike]

The BBC always have been anti Isreali...

Damn them to hell......


On a side note, I think Floyd Landis is a democrat.

 

[Greyhound]

What do you mean, there is no good guy?

Israel(backed by the U.S. and our allies) ARE the good guys. What part of they-want-to-kill-you-and-convert-all-of-the-world-to-Islam, are you NOT getting?

You just made it onto Nancy Pelosi's Christmas card list. :love:

 

[MMike]

What do you mean, there is no good guy?

Israel(backed by the U.S. and our allies) ARE the good guys. What part of they-want-to-kill-you-and-convert-all-of-the-world-to-Islam, are you NOT getting?

You just made it onto Nancy Pelosi's Christmas card list. :love:

As I said, Isreal is a bunch of thugs. I guess it should be pointed out that not everyone on this forum is American.

I wouldn't expect you to understand that the UN wants moderated and APPROPRIATE responses.

Jeez, just out of sheer principle, I wish the UN would move their headquarters

 

[LOOnatic]

MMike what do you think of the UN resolution that called for syria to de-arm Hezbollah years ago?

And as f'd up as the bombing of the UN outpost was did you know that Hezbollah routinely was using it to fire rockets?

You see everything is blurred now and it has become really hard to draw nice and tidy conclusions.

 

[Greyhound]

You HONESTLY think Isreal is doing just what needs to be done? They blew a UN office ON PURPOSE.... that had civilians in it. They are blowing up kids. They are having THEIR kids write hate messages on bombs to be dropped.....on Lebanese civilians.... How seriously effed up is that?

Don't drink the Kool-Aid, MMike. Turn off CNN, and start doing some serious research into this. Honestly, man......I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, but mainstream media will absolutely brainwash you into believing their militant Islam rhetoric. Let me direct you to and essay by my man, Charles Krauthammer. He'll break it down for you in more eloquent terms than myself.....

---------------------------------------------------------
Let Israel Win the War
By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- What other country, when attacked in an unprovoked aggression across a recognized international frontier, is then put on a countdown clock by the world, given a limited time window in which to fight back, regardless of whether it has restored its own security?

What other country sustains 1,500 indiscriminate rocket attacks into its cities -- every one designed to kill, maim and terrorize civilians -- and is then vilified by the world when it tries to destroy the enemy's infrastructure and strongholds with precision-guided munitions that sometimes have the unintended but unavoidable consequence of collateral civilian death and suffering?

Hearing the world pass judgment on the Israel-Hezbollah war as it unfolds is to live in an Orwellian moral universe. With a few significant exceptions (the leadership of the United States, Britain, Australia, Canada and a very few others), the world -- governments, the media, U.N. bureaucrats -- has completely lost its moral bearings.

The word that obviates all thinking and magically inverts victim into aggressor is "disproportionate," as in the universally decried "disproportionate Israeli response."

When the United States was attacked at Pearl Harbor, it did not respond with a parallel "proportionate" attack on a Japanese naval base. It launched a four-year campaign that killed millions of Japanese, reduced Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki to a cinder, and turned the Japanese home islands to rubble and ruin. Disproportionate? No. When one is wantonly attacked by an aggressor, one has every right -- legal and moral -- to carry the fight until the aggressor is disarmed and so disabled that it cannot threaten one's security again. That's what it took with Japan.

Britain was never invaded by Germany in World War II. Did it respond to the blitz and V-1 and V-2 rockets with "proportionate" aerial bombardment of Germany? Of course not. Churchill orchestrated the greatest land invasion in history that flattened and utterly destroyed Germany, killing untold innocent German women and children in the process.

The perversity of today's international outcry lies in the fact that there is indeed a disproportion in this war, a radical moral asymmetry between Hezbollah and Israel: Hezbollah is deliberately trying to create civilian casualties on both sides while Israel is deliberately trying to minimize civilian casualties, also on both sides.

In perhaps the most blatant terror campaign from the air since the London blitz, Hezbollah is raining rockets on Israeli cities and villages. These rockets are packed with ball bearings that can penetrate automobiles and shred human flesh. They are meant to kill and maim. And they do.

But it is a dual campaign. Israeli innocents must die in order for Israel to be terrorized. But Lebanese innocents must also die in order for Israel to be demonized, which is why Hezbollah hides its fighters, its rockets, its launchers, its entire infrastructure among civilians. Creating human shields is a war crime. It is also a Hezbollah specialty.

On Wednesday, CNN cameras showed destruction in Tyre. What does Israel have against Tyre and its inhabitants? Nothing. But the long-range Hezbollah rockets that have been raining terror on Haifa are based in Tyre. What is Israel to do? Leave untouched the launch sites that are deliberately placed in built-up areas?

Had Israel wanted to destroy Lebanese civilian infrastructure, it would have turned out the lights in Beirut in the first hour of the war, destroying the billion-dollar power grid and setting back Lebanon 20 years. It did not do that. Instead, it attacked dual-use infrastructure -- bridges, roads, airport runways -- and blockaded Lebanon's ports to prevent the reinforcement and resupply of Hezbollah. Ten-thousand Katyusha rockets are enough. Israel was not going to allow Hezbollah 10,000 more.

Israel's response to Hezbollah has been to use the most precise weaponry and targeting it can. It has no interest, no desire to kill Lebanese civilians. Does anyone imagine that it could not have leveled south Lebanon, to say nothing of Beirut? Instead, in the bitter fight against Hezbollah in south Lebanon, it has repeatedly dropped leaflets, issued warnings, sent messages by radio and even phone text to Lebanese villagers to evacuate so that they would not be harmed.

Israel knows that these leaflets and warnings give the Hezbollah fighters time to escape and regroup. The advance notification as to where the next attack is coming has allowed Hezbollah to set up elaborate ambushes. The result? Unexpectedly high Israeli infantry casualties. Moral scrupulousness paid in blood. Israeli soldiers die so that Lebanese civilians will not, and who does the international community condemn for disregarding civilian life?

 

[N8 v2.0]

The really amusing thing is that liberalism is the very thing militant islam hates the most... you'd better pray (or whatever) that the war against it is sucessful.

 

[Greyhound]

As I said, Isreal is a bunch of thugs. I guess it should be pointed out that not everyone on this forum is American.

I wouldn't expect you to understand that the UN wants moderated and APPROPRIATE responses.

Jeez, just out of sheer principle, I wish the UN would move their headquarters

American? HA! Here's where I'm absolutely ROLLING on the floor right now. This isn't an "American" problem......this is a GLOBAL problem, man. Thiland, Africa, Australia, Canada, Fiji, Europe.................do I need to go on? This is a global struggle to keep the rest of the world from death from militant, 7th Century Islam. The Jews are not to blame for all things wrong in the Middle East. And neither is George Bush.

 

[LordOpie]

They blew a UN office ON PURPOSE...

yeah, but who hasn't wanted to do that?

 

[LordOpie]

The really amusing thing is that liberalism is the very thing militant islam hates the most... you'd better pray (or whatever) that the war against it is sucessful.

And it's liberalism that would give them the chance to kill everyone.

 

[Changleen]

What do you mean, there is no good guy?

Israel(backed by the U.S. and our allies) ARE the good guys. What part of they-want-to-kill-you-and-convert-all-of-the-world-to-Islam, are you NOT getting?

You just made it onto Nancy Pelosi's Christmas card list. :love:

You're an idiot.

 

[Greyhound]

The really amusing thing is that liberalism is the very thing militant islam hates the most... you'd better pray (or whatever) that the war against it is sucessful.

I'm hearing ya there, man. Hey....check this article out--I think you'll get a kick out of it. Kinda touches on your above comments.

Israel's War Separates Decent Left From Indecent Left
By Dennis Prager

I believe the Left has been wrong on virtually every great moral issue in the last 30 years.

During that period, it was wrong on the Cold War -- it devoted far more energy to fighting anti-communism than to fighting communism.

It was wrong for attacking Israel for its destruction of Saddam Hussein's nuclear reactor.

It was wrong on welfare.

It was wrong in its demanding less morally and intellectually from black Americans than from all other Americans.

It was wrong in advocating bilingual education for children of immigrants.

It was wrong in generally holding American society rather than violent criminals responsible for violent crime.

It was wrong in imposing its view on abortion on America through the courts rather than through the democratic process.

It was wrong in teaching a generation of men and women that men and women differ because of socialization not because of innate sex differences.

It was wrong in reducing sex to a purely biological and health issue for a generation of young Americans.

It was wrong in identifying "flag waving" with fascism.

It was wrong in supporting the teachers' unions rather than students and educational reform.

It was wrong in allying itself with trial lawyers and blocking tort reform.

It was wrong in blocking the military from recruiting on campuses and teaching a generation of young Americans that "war is not the answer" when war is at times the one moral answer.

It was wrong in arguing that America is not based on Judeo-Christian values, but on secular ones like Western Europe.

It was wrong in advancing multiculturalism, which is an extreme form of moral relativism that holds all cultures morally identical and which is a doctrine designed to undermine American national identity.

In just about every instance, one could say that the Left was foolish, the Left was naive, the Left was wrong, even that the Left was dangerous. But in all of those cases, one could imagine a decent person holding any or even all of these positions.

But we now have a bright line that divides the decent -- albeit usually wrong -- Left from the indecent Left.

The Left's anti-Israel positions until now were based, at least in theory, on its opposition to Israeli occupation of Arab land and its belief in the "cycle of violence" between Israel and its enemies. However, this time there is no occupied land involved and the violence is not a cycle with its implied lack of a beginning. There is a clear aggressor -- a terror organization devoted to Islamicizing the Middle East and annihilating Israel -- and no occupation.

That is why the Israeli Left is almost universally in favor of Israel's war against Hezbollah. Amos Oz, probably Israel's best-known novelist and leading spokesman of its Left, a lifetime critic of Israeli policy vis a vis the Palestinians, wrote in the Los Angeles Times:

"Many times in the past, the Israeli peace movement has criticized Israeli military operations. Not this time. . . . This time, Israel is not invading Lebanon. It is defending itself from daily harassment and bombardment of dozens of our towns and villages. . . . There can be no moral equation between Hezbollah and Israel. Hezbollah is targeting Israeli civilians wherever they are, while Israel is targeting mostly Hezbollah."

Likewise, another longtime liberal critic of Israel, historian and Boston Globe columnist James Carroll, wrote last week:

"As one who rejects war, I regret Israel's heavy bombing of Lebanon last week, as I deplored Israeli attacks in population centers and on infrastructure in Gaza. . . . Yet, given the rejectionism of both Hamas and Hezbollah . . . is the path of negotiations actually open to Israel? . . . There is no moral equivalence between enemies here. . . . It seems urgent [to] reaffirm foundational support for Israel. . . . The fury of anti-Israel rage among Arabs and Muslims is accounted for only partially by the present conflict. It resuscitates . . . the long European habit of scapegoating Jews. . . . No one should think that embedded contempt for Jews -- anti-Semitism -- is not part of the current crisis."

Amos Oz and James Carroll are men of the Left who have been tested and passed the most clarifying moral litmus test of our time -- Israel's fight for existence against the primitives, fanatics and sadists in Hezbollah and Hamas and elsewhere in the Arab/Muslim world who wish to destroy it. Anyone on the Left who cannot see this is either bad, a useful idiot for Islamic terrorists, anti-Semitic or all three. There is no other explanation for morally condemning Israel's war on Hezbollah.

 

[Greyhound]

You're an idiot.

Well...I'm sorry you feel that way. I've heard less flattering things spoken about yourself as well. But that's neither here nor there.

If the truth hurts, I'm sorry I hurt you.

 

[Greyhound]

And it's liberalism that would give them the chance to kill everyone.

You're very much correct, sir. Most people can't see the forest through the trees.

 

[Bearmntpicnic]

isreal # of people killed: 50-100 at most.

lebanease death toll: 500+

its the same thing with palastinian attacks, kill 4 isrealies have your entire community whipped out with bulldozers.

 

[LordOpie]

Well...I'm sorry you feel that way. I've heard less flattering things spoken about yourself as well. But that's neither here nor there.

If the truth hurts, I'm sorry I hurt you.

I'm not sure if this is a political discussion or a late-night emo talk show.

Don't worry about Changlen, he's used to it


...do you really want to hurt me? Do you really want to make me cry...

 

[LordOpie]

its the same thing with palastinian attacks, kill 4 isrealies have your entire community whipped out with bulldozers.

ah, pointing out the cause-and-effect of the situation. I agree.

 

[Greyhound]

I'm not sure if this is a political discussion or a late-night emo talk show.

Don't worry about Changlen, he's used to it


...do you really want to hurt me? Do you really want to make me cry...

That, my friend, is comedy.

I agree.....I got a little tangential there with my anti-left sentiments. Let's get back to smashing on Hezbolla......

 

[Greyhound]

I gotta run right now.....but I'll step back in later to see what kind of puddin' I stirred up.

 

[N8 v2.0]

isreal # of people killed: 50-100 at most.

lebanease death toll: 500+

its the same thing with palastinian attacks, kill 4 isrealies have your entire community whipped out with bulldozers.

Patton said it best, "The object of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his."

Yes, a sucessful war depletes your opponent's people, arms, and moral. War must end with an absolute victory to have any hope of a lasting peace.

 

[MMike]

Like I keep saying, there is no good guy. Isreal is hurting people that DO need to be hurt, while hurting as many or more people that DON'T deserve to be hurt.

At no point did I ever says that Hezbollah was the victim.

 

[N8 v2.0]

MMike what do you think of the UN resolution that called for syria to de-arm Hezbollah years ago?

And as f'd up as the bombing of the UN outpost was did you know that Hezbollah routinely was using it to fire rockets?

A perfect example of how worthless the UN is and always has been... they have occupied the middle east since the late 60's and have not stopped anything.

 

[Greyhound]

Like I keep saying, there is no good guy. Isreal is hurting people that DO need to be hurt, while hurting as many or more people that DON'T deserve to be hurt.

At no point did I ever says that Hezbollah was the victim.

But you did say Isreal were thugs. Not true.

OK....I'll quote my own freakin' post, but put it in smaller, digestive bits so maybe you can understand.

"Had Israel wanted to destroy Lebanese civilian infrastructure, it would have turned out the lights in Beirut in the first hour of the war, destroying the billion-dollar power grid and setting back Lebanon 20 years. It did not do that. Instead, it attacked dual-use infrastructure -- bridges, roads, airport runways -- and blockaded Lebanon's ports to prevent the reinforcement and resupply of Hezbollah. Ten-thousand Katyusha rockets are enough. Israel was not going to allow Hezbollah 10,000 more.

Israel's response to Hezbollah has been to use the most precise weaponry and targeting it can. It has no interest, no desire to kill Lebanese civilians. Does anyone imagine that it could not have leveled south Lebanon, to say nothing of Beirut? Instead, in the bitter fight against Hezbollah in south Lebanon, it has repeatedly dropped leaflets, issued warnings, sent messages by radio and even phone text to Lebanese villagers to evacuate so that they would not be harmed."



Please read that last section in bold. War is hell. Hezbolla does not wear uniforms, have military bases, or are idenifiable by any way, shape or form from civillians. This is their tactic. It's cowardly, despicable and shows you exactly the kind of 7th-century guerilla tactics you can expect from a culture, who, if they get a chance to look up from the pile of rubble that used to be their city, will see a world that has passed them by.

 

[Silver]

Like I keep saying, there is no good guy. Isreal is hurting people that DO need to be hurt, while hurting as many or more people that DON'T deserve to be hurt.

At no point did I ever says that Hezbollah was the victim.

And I ask again, why do you hate Jews so much? Can't you see that in order to prevent another holocaust, they merely have to kill every child in southern Lebanon?

I don't want to have to keep reminding you that in order to grow up to be a terrorist, you have to be a child first. Let Israel nip this in the bud...

Jesus help you moral relativists...

 

[Echo]

It's not so much how many people are being killed in each country, it's the military/civilian breakdown that is not making Isreal look very "noble" right now.

Isreal: about 60, mostly military dead.

Lebanon: about 400, mostly civilian dead.

What exactly is Isreal accomplishing here? They haven't "disarmed" or "destroyed" Hezbolla at all. They are using this as an excuse to indiscriminately bomb the living sh!t out of Lebanon. If they were targeting the Hezbolla militants, wouldn't some of them be dead?

 

[N8 v2.0]

And I ask again, why do you hate Jews so much? Can't you see that in order to prevent another holocaust, they merely have to kill every child in southern Lebanon?

I don't want to have to keep reminding you that in order to grow up to be a terrorist, you have to be a child first. Let Israel nip this in the bud...

Jesus help you moral relativists...

Kinda right, but the truth you are avoiding is:

To have lasting peace in the Middle East Israel will have to kill every militant muslim until the population that supports them finds it too painful to continue doing so and quits.