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New Israel/Lebanon thread

Greyhound

Trail Rat
Jul 8, 2002
5,065
365
Alamance County, NC
Echo said:
Actually, you cut-and-pasted a list of "terrorist acts" that have occurred since the late 70's, and didn't read what you were cut-and-pasting closely enough to realize that about half of it had nothing to do with Hezbolla. Not to mention that many of those terrorist acts were retaliation for acts by the US (such as us giving military and financial support to causes that were none of our damn business).
What? ...You mean like keeping Isreal from getting wiped off the face of the Earth? Yeah...of course that's none of our business. They're only the sole functioning economy in the whole region. Don't you get it? These people are primitive, 7th century murdurers who's sole purpose is to drive Israel into the Medeterranean and then take that fight right here....to our soil. The only thing that will stop them from doing so, is complete and utter domination by Isreal.....Wait...lemme guess, you think they want to "reason" don't you? Well they don't. Isreal pulls out of Gaza and the West Bank---completely vacating any so-called "occupied" lands, and Hezbolla uses that land so that they can get a closer shot, and you call that "reasoning?" C'mon, man....you can't be so blinded by your hatred of America that you would want to see our only allies in the middle of this fight get deleted out of existence.

Look.....even your precious Canada....bastion of all that-is-neutral-besides-Switzerland recognizes the propaganda and the threat to ALL of our ways of life.

From the National Post in Canada:
Hezbollah's hate, made in Iran

For the last two weeks, innocent Israelis have been killed in missile barrages from Lebanese-based Hezbollah terrorists and militia. On the other side of the border, more than 300 Lebanese civilians have been accidentally killed by Israeli bombs aimed at Hezbollah assets. Meanwhile, Israeli soldiers have engaged with Hezbollah gunmen in ground combat, with both sides taking heavy casualties. All this loss of life was caused by Hezbollah's decision to stage an unprovoked act of war on uncontested, sovereign Israeli soil two weeks ago.

But why did Hezbollah do it? Since the government of Lebanon and most ordinary Lebanese people plainly didn't want this war, who did? Who is pulling Hezbollah's strings?

HERE ARE A FEW CLUES:

- The Shiite terrorist group receives US$120-million in annual financing from Tehran, where it operates an office on a central downtown street.

- Hezbollah was created by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). Several hundred IRGC officers are operating in Lebanon to this day, assisting Hezbollah's war effort.

- According to Western intelligence sources, over the last six months, the IRGC has been teaching Hezbollah how to operate its massive stock of rockets, many of which are from Iran. These include Zelzal missiles, which can reach Tel Aviv and beyond.

- On Wednesday, more than 60 Iranian self-declared suicide bombers, bedecked in Hezbollah paraphernalia, set off from Tehran in a "holy war" against Israeli forces in Lebanon.

- Yesterday, a Kuwaiti newspaper broke the news that Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah is travelling to Damascus for secret meetings with Iranian Supreme National Security Council Secretary Ali Larijani.

- During fighting in Lebanon, Israeli soldiers have seized weaponry marked with the logo of Iranian military manufacturers, such as the grenade launcher featured in the photo below.

- Earlier this month, Iranian troops assisted Hezbollah in firing a C-802 radar-guided missile at an Israeli warship, killing several crew members and nearly sinking the craft.

- Iranian officials met with Hezbollah leaders in Damascus on July 12, the very day this conflict started and -- as David Frum has noted on these pages -- the same day Western nations announced a threat of economic sanctions against Iran if the Islamic Republic refused to curtail its nuclear program.

Get the picture? As despicable and murderous as Hezbollah's own jihadist ideology may be, the group is very much a creature of Iran, which is seeking to flex its muscle against the West without actually attacking Western targets directly. Whether or not one thinks Israel is exercising "disproportionate" force in the prosecution of this war, there is no doubt about who is behind it: The people dying in Haifa and Beirut are the victims of a proxy conflict funded and planned by warmongers in Tehran.

All of this is well-known. Yet Iran persists in the claim that it has nothing to do with the current war -- even as it cheers Hezbollah on from the sidelines and looks for ways to keep the weapons flowing into Lebanon.

n today's Post, for instance, there appears a letter by Hormoz Ghahremani, press attache at the Iranian embassy in Ottawa. He cynically alleges that Iran "has absolutely no role in the current tragedy." He also complains of "an anti-Muslim, anti-Iran mindset" in the media, and then goes on to make the ludicrous charge that Israel is guilty of "ethnic cleansing of the Muslims of Lebanon."

These accusations of "ethnic cleansing," readers will note, have been issued on behalf of a regime whose President denies the Holocaust, and who openly rhapsodizes about annihilating Israel, which he calls a "stain on the Islamic world."

If there is any regime that can be called a stain on the human race, it is Iran's. And it is a testament to the civilized norms of Israel and the United States -- which have the ability to immolate Iran several times over -- that they have not done to Tehran what the mullahs would like to do to Tel Aviv.

Iran's diplomats are free to emit their demagoguery and morally perverse bluster. But Canada and the rest of the civilized world should recognize it for the propaganda it is.

We certainly do.


----------------------------------------------------

Echo said:
The US government puts its might behind whomever appears to suit its best interests at the moment over there, then stabs them in the back and labels them as terrorists when they aren't convenient anymore. It's called hypocrisy.

Let's pose a question: Saddam Hussein is on trial right now, and will likely be put to death, because as president, he sent his troops into a hostile area, where they committed atrocities. What do you think the odds are that George W. Bush will be tried for the (alarmingly growing number of) atrocities committed by the troops he commands?

Hypocrisy is what our government has been about for my entire life, and it's only gotten worse.

Your problem with our government isn't the subject of this thread. Start another one if you feel so inclined, but I'm not going to address that in this thread. This subject is complicated enough as it is.
 

Greyhound

Trail Rat
Jul 8, 2002
5,065
365
Alamance County, NC
Silver said:
Andrew Sullivan is quite liberal?

I've got some bad news for you. Besides the fact that he supports gay marriage, he's not a liberal in any way, shape, or form. He's a conservative with an issue that personally affects him. Nancy Reagan and stem cell research, or Rush Limbaugh and privacy would be a couple more examples of that.

The fact that you consider Andrew Sullivan to be "quite gay and liberal" speaks volumes...considering he is gay and not liberal.

OK.....I would concede that you made a very astute observation of Andrew's character and style. I've never quite thought of it in that context, and it's very accurate. I'm not exactly sure though, if it speaks "volumes" about whatever you were directing it to mean. I've never considered his viewpoints conservative though. Compared to most of the reading I do, he's pretty light in the loafers. :hot:

Silver said:
Look up. You see that thing with the clouds in it? It's blue.
Heh....now THAT'S a snappy comeback!! :rofl:
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
Assuming I properly discerned where your comments ended and where the cut-and-paste started, and aside from the several places you attempted to put words in my mouth that I never said, the bottom line is that Isreal, with their smart bombs and their US-equipped modern military, should be able to do a little better in the civilian/military casualty ratio. Because so far it looks to the casual observer that they've killed about as many Red Cross volunteers as they have Hezbolla militants.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Greyhound said:
Your problem with our government isn't the subject of this thread. Start another one if you feel so inclined, but I'm not going to address that in this thread. This subject is complicated enough as it is.
Pot calling kettle black alert...

"Dayemn them anti-'merican liberawl pinko fag commies, them's is gonna end my noble way a' life!"

The fact that you think CNN is a true left-wing mouthpiece makes a mockery of your intelligence. Go back to the Lounge.

This is almost as bad as the letter to the editor in the paper today announcing health care isn't a human right... :nonono:
 

Greyhound

Trail Rat
Jul 8, 2002
5,065
365
Alamance County, NC
blue said:
Pot calling kettle black alert...

"Dayemn them anti-'merican liberawl pinko fag commies, them's is gonna end my noble way a' life!"

What? :rolleyes:


blue said:
The fact that you think CNN is a true left-wing mouthpiece makes a mockery of your intelligence. Go back to the Lounge.
So....are you saying they're not? That's quite a laugh. Would YOU be that true, left-wing mouthpiece?
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,148
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
Silver said:
A few interesting developments:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm

We received yesterday at the Rome conference permission from the world... to continue the operation," Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon said.

Mr Ramon - a close confidant of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert - said "everyone understands that a victory for Hezbollah is a victory for world terror".

He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops moved in.

He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter.

"All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Mr Ramon said.


Odd that. So not leaving your home makes you a valid target?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5223940.stm

That comment from Ramon led to a pissed off response from a State Department spokesman. In other news, Condi's still out there doing...something?


ha!, exactly what i was saying a few days earlier.
it was pretty obvious a scenario like this would be coming. there is only so much casualties israel can sustain playing "nice" before it brought out the chainsaw.

deterrents need to return.
 

Greyhound

Trail Rat
Jul 8, 2002
5,065
365
Alamance County, NC
Echo said:
Assuming I properly discerned where your comments ended and where the cut-and-paste started, and aside from the several places you attempted to put words in my mouth that I never said.....

And exactly what were those words? I don't recall that I tried to put words in your mouth. I DO recall trying to get you to participate in the relavent discussion at hand, but you were too busy ranting at our government to concern yourself with that. I've posted backup to my statements, you have not. Yeah, yeah....that's right, I forgot---you, what was it, laughed with their people and ate their food? I've been to Mexico and got the runs....does that make me an expert on immigration? Hardly.


Echo said:
...the bottom line is that Isreal, with their smart bombs and their US-equipped modern military, should be able to do a little better in the civilian/military casualty ratio. Because so far it looks to the casual observer that they've killed about as many Red Cross volunteers as they have Hezbolla militants.
Now see? THAT"S what I'm talking about. Finally.....after three pages, we get a point from you that is on-topic. Fantastic. Look....your opinion is fine with me......at least I know what's on your damn mind other than trying to play who-has-the-biggest-political-d*ck. Take the freakin' politics off the table and just say what the hell is on your mind. I had no desire whatsoever to spend all this time battling back and forth with you on petty differences. I like your posts, you seem like a good dude......let's just get on with this discussion without all of this......crap.
 

Greyhound

Trail Rat
Jul 8, 2002
5,065
365
Alamance County, NC
Well...this has certainly been enlightening--I think. But, It's midnight here on the East Coast, and I'm getting the hell out of Dodge for the day. Thanks to all for your responses.......it was fun going round and round for a couple of pages. Let's not harbor any ill-will or anything. I'll be back again to stir the puddin' soon. Have a nice night!! :)
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
Greyhound said:
Wait...lemme guess, you think they want to "reason" don't you?

Look.....even your precious Canada....bastion of all that-is-neutral-besides-Switzerland
Where did I say either of those things? Even though I do like Canada a lot.

Anyway, a couple of questions for you:

Do you think the average citizen in Lebanon has any control over what Hezbolla does?

Does anyone with a brain think that the Lebanese government has any realistic way to disarm Hezbolla? (that one was rhetorical, the answer is no.)

So why is Isreal saying they are going to keep dropping bombs on anything that moves until the Lebanese government and people do something they are powerless to do?

Doesn't it sound like Isreal might just have been looking for an excuse to slap around some Arabs, and they found an excuse when some criminals from the defenseless country next door committed a crime?

If your neigbor's dog bites your kid 5 times, do you burn down your neighbor's house, killing his entire family in the process, or do you get animal control to put the dog to sleep?
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Echo said:
If your neigbor's dog bites your kid 5 times, do you burn down your neighbor's house, killing his entire family in the process, or do you get animal control to put the dog to sleep?
animal control = USA ?
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,148
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
machiavel style.

Echo said:
Do you think the average citizen in Lebanon has any control over what Hezbolla does?
probably not. your average israeli citizen neither.
there must be some form of cohertion over hezbollah. and somebody has to pay that bill.
no cohertion = same ol´, same ol´.
cold, but utilitarian. if 1000 people dead today, avoids the deaths of 50 per month for the next 10 years (more so if you adjust that from a relativistic frame of reference) then it really doesnt suck as much as the option.
the middle east has proved it only undertands drastic violence.

Does anyone with a brain think that the Lebanese government has any realistic way to disarm Hezbolla? (that one was rhetorical, the answer is no.)
when presented the options "pick up your dirty fight, hezbollah or israel". i believe they´d choose the first.


So why is Isreal saying they are going to keep dropping bombs on anything that moves until the Lebanese government and people do something they are powerless to do?
cohertion. hezbollah has pushed things far enough that no other cohertion method seems to give results.

Doesn't it sound like Isreal might just have been looking for an excuse to slap around some Arabs, and they found an excuse when some criminals from the defenseless country next door committed a crime?
it would, if you were not very familiarized with what´s going on the last 100 years in the middle east.
like the very simplistic reasoning i heard once from a very clueless girl. "israel is pounding the palestinians, because the germans pounded the jews and now they need somebody to pass it to"

If your neigbor's dog bites your kid 5 times, do you burn down your neighbor's house, killing his entire family in the process, or do you get animal control to put the dog to sleep?
5 times? what about everyday, and what about if everytime you bitch to your neighbor, he shoots your windows, threatens to kill you and burn down your house and family, and you caught him twice armed in your kitchen?
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Bugger me, reading this bus crash of a thread has me more convinced than ever that N8 was created by spare parts from an idiot.
On the plus side, looks like we've got a new frother. Cool.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Ok...so all the brown people are bad. Wipe 'em out. Kill 'em all.

So how about targeting the UN observers? The building took 4 direct hits. And there were 21 hits within 400 metres. Gosh....what are the chances? Not to mention the 10 phone calls over 6 hours prior being obliterated, saying "uh guys....you're getting a little close to us".

Israel blew up an innocent Canadian.....on purpose. Following your logic, by definition Israel would be my enemy, no? Take it a step farther....America FUNDED the blowing up of an innocent Canadian, on purpose. Now what?

Thugs. Israel are thugs....funded by bad, bad people.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,365
2,473
Pōneke
LOOnatic said:
MMike what do you think of the UN resolution that called for syria to de-arm Hezbollah years ago?
What about the multiple resolutions that have called for Israel to stop killing innocent people, all of which have been veto'd by the US?
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,365
2,473
Pōneke
Greyhound said:
But you did say Isreal were thugs. Not true.
I said you're an idiot. I'm sorry I take it back. You're a fvcking sub-moron. You have no clue about the situation in the middle east. You're embarassing yourself, and what's really funny is you don't realise it.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,365
2,473
Pōneke
Greyhound said:
At least I'm actually supporting my arguments with actual essay and articles from people closer to the situation than you or I will ever be......
Are you serious? Are you typing that with a straight face? If you are you are seriously deluded.
 

Bearmntpicnic

Monkey
Oct 23, 2005
838
0
charlottesville
N8 said:
Patton said it best, "The object of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his."

Yes, a sucessful war depletes your opponent's people, arms, and moral. War must end with an absolute victory to have any hope of a lasting peace.
yah to bad the people of lebanon did not start this war and, do not want to be fighting it. You cannot bring an entire country into a war when you are fighting a small terriorist organization. Also telling the citizens of beriut the capital city to leave?
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Changleen said:
I said you're an idiot. I'm sorry I take it back. You're a fvcking sub-moron. You have no clue about the situation in the middle east. You're embarassing yourself, and what's really funny is you don't realise it.
Don't be an ass. Disagree with the guy if you'd like, but since this isn't a black-and-white, clear-cut issue, people's opinions will differ from yours, so petty name calling is just that.
 

Greyhound

Trail Rat
Jul 8, 2002
5,065
365
Alamance County, NC

guytzuv

Chimp
May 16, 2006
42
0
As anIsraeli who used to support the peace process, I read all the comments and shocked from the disinformation that that media is feeding all the world.
The north of Israel has been paralyzed for the past 2 weeks by the bombing of the hizballa.
All we did is react to their kidnapping and bombing imagine how any other country would respond if their CIVILIAN cities would get massively bombed!.
we don't send our troops to another continent to fight, we fight for our civilians lives.
The Hizballa USES the civilians as a human shiled attacking behind U.N posts and HOLDING civilians from running away from their villages with the sick concept that wemen and children should die in the name of Islam.
In war no one is a saint I admit that we had our share of mistakes, but on the whole I can promise you guys that their is no other army in the world that is more moral than the I.D.F.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,269
2,802
The bunker at parliament
guytzuv said:
The north of Israel has been paralyzed for the past 2 weeks by the bombing of the hizballa.
Which of course happened AFTER a continuing bombing campaign against NON hisballa targets.


guytzuv said:
I can promise you guys that their is no other army in the world that is more moral than the I.D.F.

which would be why they use similar tactics as the germans in regard to collective punishment.
 

guytzuv

Chimp
May 16, 2006
42
0
As an Israeli who used to support the peace process, I read all the comments and shocked from the disinformation that that media is feeding all the world.
The north of Israel has been paralyzed for the past 2 weeks by the bombing of the Hizballa.
All we did is react to their kidnapping and bombing imagine how any other country would respond if their CIVILIAN cities would get massively bombed!.
we don't send our troops to another continent to fight, we fight for our civilians lives.
The Hizballa USES the civilians as a human shield attacking behind U.N posts and HOLDING civilians from running to shelters with the sick concept that wemen and children should die in the name of Islam.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,365
2,473
Pōneke
guytzuv said:
As an Israeli who used to support the peace process, I read all the comments and shocked from the disinformation that that media is feeding all the world.
The north of Israel has been paralyzed for the past 2 weeks by the bombing of the Hizballa.
Oh no! The poor north of Israel! What about pretty much all of Lebanon?
All we did is react to their kidnapping and bombing imagine how any other country would respond if their CIVILIAN cities would get massively bombed!.
"all we did" :rolleyes: Right, numbnutz. How many Lebanese civilians have you killed now?

"Massively bombed"? I suppose what's happened to Tyre and so on is just a little scratch? You're either a hypocrite or an idiot.

we don't send our troops to another continent to fight, we fight for our civilians lives.
The Hizballa USES the civilians as a human shield attacking behind U.N posts and HOLDING civilians from running to shelters with the sick concept that wemen and children should die in the name of Islam.
And knowing this you still just bomb the **** out of everyone anyway. :nopity: No fvcking sympathy mate.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,365
2,473
Pōneke
LordOpie said:
Don't be an ass. Disagree with the guy if you'd like, but since this isn't a black-and-white, clear-cut issue, people's opinions will differ from yours, so petty name calling is just that.
Well, I would have taken the time to disassemble his post, but a) I am on Holiday and b) a bunch of other people have shown him what a douche he is already and he's patently incapable of understanding reality, so name calling seemed fairly approprite.
 

guytzuv

Chimp
May 16, 2006
42
0
Thats the thing, I don't need your sympathy londonboy. The last time we tried that we got slaughtered by the millions while Europe watched and nodded.
people don't see the whole picture, we fight a terror group that got massive support from Iran and Syria. Hizballa uses Lebanon, who has no power to control them, as their playground and fights in a suicide bomber approach without diplomacy or reason. we can't even try to negotiate with these kind of groups, their whole agenda is to have us dead, that kind f hate that they have for us is something you can't imagine until you face it.
In 2003 we tried, we left Lebanon and this war that's going on at the moment is just because we gave them a chance, we thought maybe the problem will disappear if we pull back but they only used this time to get ready for the next campaign.
This conflict probably will go on for years and a lot of blood is going to be shed from both sides, until one day they will just recognize our right to exist, because we've got nowhere else to go
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
guytzuv said:
...until one day they will just recognize our right to exist...
I pray that is true, but fear that will take a long, long time.

I still find it amazing how much land the Arab world has in comparison to tiny Israel and yet, they want that land too.
 

Greyhound

Trail Rat
Jul 8, 2002
5,065
365
Alamance County, NC
guytzuv said:
Thats the thing, I don't need your sympathy londonboy. The last time we tried that we got slaughtered by the millions while Europe watched and nodded.
people don't see the whole picture, we fight a terror group that got massive support from Iran and Syria. Hizballa uses Lebanon, who has no power to control them, as their playground and fights in a suicide bomber approach without diplomacy or reason. we can't even try to negotiate with these kind of groups, their whole agenda is to have us dead, that kind f hate that they have for us is something you can't imagine until you face it.
In 2003 we tried, we left Lebanon and this war that's going on at the moment is just because we gave them a chance, we thought maybe the problem will disappear if we pull back but they only used this time to get ready for the next campaign.
This conflict probably will go on for years and a lot of blood is going to be shed from both sides, until one day they will just recognize our right to exist, because we've got nowhere else to go



I'm with ya, pal. Drive those murdurers into the sand. For the life of me.....I can't understand why, when presented all the information the world has been presented with, they would see otherwise. Fauod Signoro is delusional to think Hezbolla will just lay down arms, talk peace, and be absorbed into their government. One must drive a wedge between Syria and Lebanon if they wish to have the supplies of terrorists and missles(made in Iran) stopped and the fighting to cease. Isreal is in a fight for its very existence. We're talking about a country that has given the world more advances in technology, medicine, and finance than the entire Arab world combined....and short-sighted terrorist apologists and "World Opinion" wants to put a stranglehold on how they defend themselves? That's the real bullsh*t , right there.
 

Greyhound

Trail Rat
Jul 8, 2002
5,065
365
Alamance County, NC
Changleen said:
Well, I would have taken the time to disassemble his post, but a) I am on Holiday and b) a bunch of other people have shown him what a douche he is already and he's patently incapable of understanding reality, so name calling seemed fairly approprite.

Tell ya what, sparky.....why don't you enjoy your little holiday----please, take your time. I've been here since '02....probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so.........take that time to try and formulate coherent thought, and get back to me at your convienence. While I'm sure it will consist of more name-calling and adolscent knee-jerk reaction, I'm really hoping for the best from you.

.....Meanwhile, the rest of us on the planet will try and deal with the worlds problems and get 'em sorted out so you guys can keep your little island down there free of terrorists and full of unicorns.

I mean, what part terrorism are you NOT getting?
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Greyhound said:
I mean, what part terrorism are you NOT getting?
What I don't get is a few things. I don't get....
1) How many of the 37 kids killed today in Qana were terrorists

2) How is it that who gets designated a terrorist changes as the political landscape shifts

3) How there is no real plan to defeat terrorism beyond "kill them all". I mean that's nice for pithy frotherisms but has about as much use as most of the crap spewing forth from the rabid right.

4) How we allow our political leaders to lie outright about the risks, causes and effects of terrorism.

5) How the link between poor living standards and instability seems to escape the hawks busy planning the next little adventure

6) How we fail to realise supporting some little thug today because of expediency, might come back to bite us on the arse tomorrow. The lack of long term thinking in combatting terrorism is staggering.
 

ridetoofast

scarred, broken and drunk
Mar 31, 2002
2,095
5
crashing at a trail near you...
valve bouncer said:
What I don't get is a few things. I don't get....
1) How many of the 37 kids killed today in Qana were terrorists

2) How is it that who gets designated a terrorist changes as the political landscape shifts

3) How there is no real plan to defeat terrorism beyond "kill them all". I mean that's nice for pithy frotherisms but has about as much use as most of the crap spewing forth from the rabid right.

4) How we allow our political leaders to lie outright about the risks, causes and effects of terrorism.

5) How the link between poor living standards and instability seems to escape the hawks busy planning the next little adventure

6) How we fail to realise supporting some little thug today because of expediency, might come back to bite us on the arse tomorrow. The lack of long term thinking in combatting terrorism is staggering.
can you make any retorts without the use of frother expression?

its amusing how lefties such as you have this smug, condescending perspective of anyone that disagrees with them (edit anyone from teh right), and feels the need to hurl disparaging labels to make yourself feel better.