[narlus]

technology covers cameras, right?

two new lenses and a replacement for the rebelXT (400D/rebel XTi).

http://lifeonthespot.com/blog/2006/08/canon_eos_400d_rebel_xti.php

the new body has most of the features of the Canon 30D (and a couple more) for $400 or so less...should smoke the current Noink D70.

the new lenses are a 50L f/1.2 and 70-200L f/4 that has Image Stabilization.

nice.

 

[binary visions]

Sensor cleaning is nice, hopefully all the manufacturers go that way... I can't believe they still haven't implemented spot metering into the low end, though.

I would really have liked to see spot metering, a better VF and a secondary scroll wheel. I suppose that would have pushed it too close to the 30D. They snuck a few nice features in there but nothing I'm that excited about. Sensor cleaning is nice, I expect everyone will be going towards that shortly. I just don't see anything there to jump up and down about.

70-200 f/4 will be super nice. Lightweight f/4 lens with image stabilization should allow some really slow handheld shutter speeds.

 

[narlus]

Sensor cleaning is nice, hopefully all the manufacturers go that way... I can't believe they still haven't implemented spot metering into the low end, though.

I would really have liked to see spot metering, a better VF and a secondary scroll wheel. I suppose that would have pushed it too close to the 30D. They snuck a few nice features in there but nothing I'm that excited about. Sensor cleaning is nice, I expect everyone will be going towards that shortly. I just don't see anything there to jump up and down about.

70-200 f/4 will be super nice. Lightweight f/4 lens with image stabilization should allow some really slow handheld shutter speeds.

seems like canon really did a lot to improve the rebXT/350D though...as far as i can tell, these are the differences between the 30D (which was only released a few months ago, remember), as compared to the 400D/XTi

for me, the biggest question is 400 or so dollars worth these differences in the camera?

- mag body
- faster fps
- less resolution (8 vs 10)
- heavier weight
- more shots per battery charge
- 1/8000 shutter max speed
- viewfinder slightly larger
- lcd for settings
- lack of sensor cleaning
- spot metering
- controls
- potentially longer rated shutter life

if canon added spot metering into the 400D, there'd be even less reason to get a 30D.

since the stuff i shoot tends to be lowlight coupled w/ fast lenses, i'm pining for the advanced AF sensitivity/performance...and Canon is the clear leader for ISOs 800 and above.

 

[binary visions]

30D has ISO 3200, slightly higher flash sync, pentaprism will give better viewfinder brightness, more info in viewfinder. But yeah, I realize that the features I was looking for would intrude on 30D turf.

I'm really impressed that Nikon pushed their great D200 viewfinder down into the D80 series. A bright, clear viewfinder is the first thing I notice when I pick up any camera, and I always feel like I'm squinting when I look into a DSLR.

 

[Strakar]

Well from an amateur sports shooter point of view the faster fps, and a more durable body are still deal brakers. Does anyone know if the 400D has the abillity of using the external flash IR beam to help focusing without using the flash main light? (this function is present in the 20D and 30D)

 

[Graphics]

Anybody know anything about the Fuji Fine Pix S9000?

I've had my eyes set on either the Nikon D70, D200 or the Canon 20D, RebelXT...but a colleague at work was researching the Fuji for our company. He said that he actually found a couple of sites that guys said they dumped their D70 for it because the quality was just about the same without having to lug around all the extra lenses. It comes with a 28mm - 300mm zoom and touts low noise even at ISO 800. :love:

 

[binary visions]

It may suffice for whatever you want to do, but it's not going to be the same quality as a DSLR. Not even close.

Noise is going to be much higher at high ISOs. Focus times and focus reliability won't even be close to as good. Plus, an EVF isn't very good for action shots. And those long zooms are very susceptible to purple fringing and distortion.

That said, there are a lot of great things about digicams, and if you won't lug the lenses around, superior image quality doesn't help a bit. The best photographic situation in the world can't be captured with no camera.

Review: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms9000/

 

[narlus]

lugging around lenses w/o knowing what you plan to shoot is stupid, imo. the whole reason to get an SLR is so you can use the lens to match the shooting conditions and requirements.

 

[Graphics]

Well...i'm still stuck on the Nikon or Canon...but just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

 

[peter6061]

I'll stick with my 30D. Now I just need a few more lenses...

 

[narlus]

I'll stick with my 30D. Now I just need a few more lenses...

that's what i am leaning towards, it's just a hefty $400 dollar difference bullet to swallow for the differences between the 400D/XTi and 30D (see my list above). hell, that $400 could easily be a lens i want (50mm f/1.4 or 85 f/1.8)

 

[narlus]

Well...i'm still stuck on the Nikon or Canon...but just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

do you have any lenses or flash guns which are brand specific (ie, it would make you lean toward a particular choice of either nikon or canon)?

if the answer's no, best bet is to directly compare the specs head to head, compare the costs, and most importantly go to a store and phyiscally handle the cameras and see how the user interface suits you.

 

[binary visions]

go to a store and phyiscally handle the cameras and see how the user interface suits you.

Bingo.

Ergonomics, ergonomics, ergonomics.

Extremely important.

Oh, and peruse the two manufacturer's lens lineups. There may be a lens or two that are deal breakers. It's not likely, but it's possible.

 

[binary visions]

Oh, and don't blow Sony off, either. Give the new A100 a chance if you can pick one up.

My intuition tells me Sony is going to capture a huge market share in the years to come - the battle of the DSLR is going to be won primarily in electronics, not lenses. Not to mention you can use any Konica-Minolta lens produced in the last 25 years. Sony's partnership with Zeiss could lead to some interesting lenses as well...

The A100 isn't everything it could be but starting a lens investment with a company whose market share is going to do nothing but grow isn't a bad thing. Also, in-camera image stabilization is going to be as common as autofocus eventually - I almost guarantee it.

edit: Canon and Nikon are fighting the in-camera image stabilization because they have an investment in IS and VR lenses... but they won't win out. It's too easy to implement it and too convenient to have every lens in your lineup become stabilized. They're just delaying the inevitable.

 

[narlus]

well, canon and nikon also own about 70% of the SLR market, right? monopolies are tough to overcome.

 

[binary visions]

Yeah, but Sony is starting with K/M's foothold, plus their already strong digicam share. I have no doubt that Sony will be a strong contender in the market over the next several years. No doubt at all.

 

[Kornphlake]

Sony electronics seem to be okay for consumer level stuff, but their presence in the prosumer and above market is pretty spotty. I wouldn't buy a high end stereo with sony's name on it, I wouldn't buy a high end computer with sony's name on it, I wouldn't even buy a high end video camera with sony's name, although they do have some nice video cameras for the professional market. That's neither here nor there.

I bought a used D30 about a year ago and love it, it's no 30D or even 300D but it gets the job done. I was considering upgrading to a 70D when the price dropped a few months ago, but I realized that at this point I've got almost as much money in lenses, batteries and flash as I do in the camera body. I don't really prefer canon over nikon, but it's what I've got so it's what I'm going to stick with. For a used camera it was a lot easier to find a Canon DSLR in my price range because they've been around longer, I think the D30 is about 5 years old now and discontinued so there were a few on ebay for reasonable prices. I've handled a few of the Rebel cameras and they just feel cheap, I prefer the grip on the professional cameras, and they include a few nice features the Rebels don't too.

 

[Toshi]

good call, Kornphlake. the D30 is what i started with in the canon world due to my preference for a more solid/weighty feel, and i shot with it until its shutter died, luckily just as the 20D was unveiled.

 

[binary visions]

Kornphlake, some of the Sony receivers are ranked very highly among audiophiles. The Vaio laptops are pretty damn good. The Sony R1 is considered probably the best lens on any prosumer camera on the market.

 

[narlus]

did i just see the words 'sony' and 'audiophile' in the same sentence?

now i know those guys are total freaks, but step into ANY high-end stereo store (the kind where a turntable tonearm will cost you hundreds of dollars, you know the kind...the kind which cater to audiophiles?) and you'll never see a sony product in one.

 

[Graphics]

phyiscally handle the cameras and see how the user interface suits you.

That's funny...you're the second photographer to tell me that. I agree. I will definitely need to handle them and see how they feel.

No I don't have much in the way of camera equipment right now. I'm actually shooting my stuff from a Nikon Coolpix...Old one...but it's gotten me some pretty good shots. It's just very limiting to what I want to do. Once I finish school and start my new career (in about a year from now), I'll purchase a camera. My treat. :love:

Here's one of my favorite recent ones (you've already seen my bike shot right?) ...

 

[binary visions]

did i just see the words 'sony' and 'audiophile' in the same sentence?

now i know those guys are total freaks, but step into ANY high-end stereo store (the kind where a turntable tonearm will cost you hundreds of dollars, you know the kind...the kind which cater to audiophiles?) and you'll never see a sony product in one.

Okay, "audiophile" was a poor choice of words. Let me rephrase that:

Many of the Sony receivers are ranked very highly among the other receivers in their class. They often receive very positive reviews as well.

 

[Kornphlake]

Kornphlake, some of the Sony receivers are ranked very highly among audiophiles. The Vaio laptops are pretty damn good. The Sony R1 is considered probably the best lens on any prosumer camera on the market.

I agree that Sony does make some nice products, but they are not a price/performance sweet spot. Having worked in industrial electronics I look at most of the Sony products and think the build quality is seriously overrated, for consumer level stuff it's average with a bloated price tag, their high end lineup follows the same mantra, most pros realize this and put their money into something that offers superior performance rather than average.

Sony does make good image sensors, that alone may save them in the camera market, but in the pro market there are a lot of Canon, Nikon and Pentax owners that won't switch over to Sony simply because they already own a stack of lenses and other accessories that won't fit a Sony camera. KM went out of business because they didn't have a large enough portion of the market, I don't think that all of those Minolta lenses out there will be enough to draw a large following. The next 5 years will make or break Sony's camera division.

 

[narlus]

a website comparing sensor noise among the Canon 30D, 400D and Sony A100.

http://www.popco.net/zboard/view.php?id=dica_preview&no=100&ReviewUrl=Canon_EOS-400D_02.htm

canon's the clear winner at anything 400 or above.

 

[maxyedor]

a website comparing sensor noise among the Canon 30D, 400D and Sony A100.

http://www.popco.net/zboard/view.php?id=dica_preview&no=100&ReviewUrl=Canon_EOS-400D_02.htm

canon's the clear winner at anything 400 or above.

Great link, tho I wonder how they got ahold of a D400 when they aren't out yet. The Sony noise is about the same as the Nikon sensors, but Canon just seems to lead the industry in noise reduction.

The D400 is looking pretty good, but I still think I'll be buying my Dad a 30D for his upcoming birthday.

 

[binary visions]

The Sony noise is the same as the Nikon because Sony makes Nikon's sensor

That test is pretty standard. Canon undoubtedly has the high ISO market. Of course, that isn't the only measure of a camera, but if you do a lot of low light work, Canon is the only way to fly.