[The Kadvang]

As the summer comes around, I have been bitten by the new bike bug. I've scraped the cash together for a new fully frame, but I'm not sure what to get. I'm looking for a light, flickable frame that can hold up to some FR/DH/Dirtjumpin abuse. Here are some ideas, any input would be welcome:
(BTW, proly gonna run my z150 with a single ring and chainguide, doing decent sized drops around 7-10 feet, but I'm a light guy (120). Pretty much looking at 6 inch freeride frames)
Soooo:

SC Heckler/Bullit (Proly Heckler)
Cove G-Spot (Concentric Pivot = s**t pedaling?)
RM Switch (Likin this)
Balfa 2 step
Kona Stinky
Transition Preston/Dirtbag
Spec. Big Hit
Norco Six
Ellsworth Joker/Moment (pricey)
Turner highline/rfx
Giant AC
Orange Patriot (import)

Of course I'd love a BMW FQ, but I don't have the cash
.

Right now I'm looking at mainly the Heckler/Bullit or Switch, but any info on all these bikes would be appreciated. Thanks much.

 

[Zaskar Rider]

SC Heckler/Bullit (Proly Heckler) - both sweet bikes, heckler would be a little lighter and almost as burly. I'd go for the heckler for more fr/trail stuff and the bullit for more DH/big hit stuff

Cove G-Spot (Concentric Pivot = s**t pedaling?) - yup supposedly a crappy pedaler. Although I've never ridden one

RM Switch (Likin this) - the linkage is a lot like my rm7 which pedaled like crap. Also has a high bb which can make it feel like you're on a sky scraper.

Balfa 2 step - Great bike, my buddy has a 2 step dh and he loves it for everything. Pedals well, descends well.

Kona Stinky - tried and true.

Transition Preston/Dirtbag - one guy at the shop has a preston and another has a dirtbag. They both like those bikes a lot.

Spec. Big Hit - I rode one once for XC type stuff and it pedaled really well that's about all i know about that bike.

Norco Six - never ridden it

Ellsworth Joker/Moment (pricey) - ellsworth isn't worth the $ to me. Plus they have a history of breakage on this board.

Turner highline/rfx - the highline doesn't exist yet does it? and the RFX would be sweet but they're rare and a lot of $

Giant AC - Good bike, rides well and is pretty burly, although some guys have been having problems breaking the chainstays.

Orange Patriot (import) - haven't ridden that one either but orange seems to be doing things right.

 

[go-ride.com]

If you are trying to decide between a Heckler and a Bullit then get a bike that is between them. The Ventana El Chamuco. I own one and love it as a do it all bike. It has the better pedaling pivot location of the Heckler, the slacker geometry of the Bullit, 6" of travel, and weighs 8.0 lbs. with coil shock.

Of course IMO it has some advantages over the SC bikes. The two biggies are that it is made completely in house at Ventana and it comes with a swinglink between the swingarm and main frame. Thanks to the swinglink the Chamuco is considerablby stiffer than the Bullit and of course the Heckler. To some riders this isn't a big deal, but when railing corners it makes a big difference and it also eliminates side loads that destroy shocks.

If you are worried about the price I know a place you can get one for the same $ as a Bullit.

Here's a pic of my complete Chamuco.

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
If you are trying to decide between a Heckler and a Bullit then get a bike that is between them. The Ventana El Chamuco. I own one and love it as a do it all bike. It has the better pedaling pivot location of the Heckler, the slacker geometry of the Bullit, 6" of travel, and weighs 8.0 lbs. with coil shock.

Of course IMO it has some advantages over the SC bikes. The two biggies are that it is made completely in house at Ventana and it comes with a swinglink between the swingarm and main frame. Thanks to the swinglink the Chamuco is considerablby stiffer than the Bullit and of course the Heckler. To some riders this isn't a big deal, but when railing corners it makes a big difference and it also eliminates side loads that destroy shocks.

If you are worried about the price I know a place you can get one for the same $ as a Bullit.

Here's a pic of my complete Chamuco.

Everytime you post that pic of that bike you make me want to open up a special El Chamuco savings account - or rob a bank or something to get one. :devil:

 

[jimmydean]

Norco Six is very nice. Not sure about a frame only, but it is a very nice trail frame that is BUFF without being over heavy.

Heckler is also a nice frame, but I would bet it would be a buck or 2 more than the Norco.

The Transition Preston is one hell of a nice trail frame as well.

Not sure about some of the other frames you've listed. If your looking to climb at all, these three are great options.

I scored a Big Hit Comp that will serve as my trail frame, but all they make are the big link frames now.

 

[mack]

Venttana makes very good bikes for sure, better than bikes that have been welded by kids in taiwan.

 

[Kornphlake]

Chamuco or a yeti AS-X although the AS-X is heavier it can be run either 6" or 7" and the feel of the suspension is way nicer than the feel of a simple single pivot without a linkage driven shock. I didn't think mine felt any different than a bullit when I first got it, in fact I didn't like it as much because I didn't have the shock tuned well (I like the feel of a bullit with a Fox for reference) Last week I sat on a bullit with a fox shock and an otherwise identical build to my AS-X and it felt like poo, the linkage on an AS-X or the Chamuco makes the travel slightly progressive which helps the shock out a ton and lets you keep the small bump sensitivity you'd loose if the shock was making the travel progressive. I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't spent a year on my AS-X and then sat on that Bullit. I'm converted, I'll keep riding my Yeti.

 

[Zark]

Norco 6 is very sweet looking. Too bad there are hardly any Norco dealers in So Cal

Big Hit is sweet if you can deal with the 24" I couldn't

What is the scoop with the Highline? I haven't heard of anything since the rough proto at Interbike. That bike really has potential!

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by mack
Venttana makes very good bikes for sure, better than bikes that have been welded by kids in taiwan.

YEAH! DOWN WITH TAIWANESE SLAVE LABOR!

Those taiwanese communists have been oppressing people for too long!

MD

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by stoney98
shut up. Taiwan has more certified welders (info from Giant bikes) based on the size of their population than the US. Their welds are usually very good. you're thinking of bikes made on mainland china, that's where the child labor is.

What, are you siding with the terrorists, too, Stoney!? You f'in TRAITOR!

MD

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
If you are trying to decide between a Heckler and a Bullit then get a bike that is between them. The Ventana El Chamuco. I own one and love it as a do it all bike. It has the better pedaling pivot location of the Heckler, the slacker geometry of the Bullit, 6" of travel, and weighs 8.0 lbs. with coil shock.

Of course IMO it has some advantages over the SC bikes. The two biggies are that it is made completely in house at Ventana and it comes with a swinglink between the swingarm and main frame. Thanks to the swinglink the Chamuco is considerablby stiffer than the Bullit and of course the Heckler. To some riders this isn't a big deal, but when railing corners it makes a big difference and it also eliminates side loads that destroy shocks.

If you are worried about the price I know a place you can get one for the same $ as a Bullit.

Here's a pic of my complete Chamuco.

Scott,
How do you like that bike vs. the SABER and ASX?

 

[Supa8]

I love my Heckler. After having a Bullit the Heckler does everything my Bullit did but is lighter and better for all around riding. Its a fun bike to own. That's my .02.

 

[MikeD]

Oh, yeah, about that list of bikes...that's a pretty huge f'in list. All people will do is talk about the ones they like or don't like; I don't think you'll get much useful feedback this way aside from some time-killing reading.

I think the best way to get good feedback might be to describe the characteristics you want in your bike, especially geometry and suspension characteristics (is pedaling or plushness more important? Does brake jack matter to you? etc.). Be a little more specific than "light and flickable." Do you want a long TT and low BB height? Do you like short chainstays and high BBs?

Then some of us might mention a bike that would be good for YOU, instead of talking about ones that are good for US.

MD

 

[James | Go-Ride]

What up dood. You might want to check out http://www.go-ride.com/artmag.html. Kris has an ASX and I have a Saber, and we've got some decent review action on that website of each bike. No doubt Scott will get you hooked up with a solid review of his Chamuco if you shoot him an email, scott@go-ride.com. That way we don't have to spam up the board anymore

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by -BB-
Scott,
How do you like that bike vs. the SABER and ASX?

That's a tough one. I'm a single pivot guy because I prefer simplicity, durability and lateral stiffness. Granted a FSR bike can be built with all those things (accept simplicity), but at greater cost or weight. With that being said the Saber is a better climbing bike when grunting the granny gear on a rocky trail. On smoother trails or middle ring climbs I think the Chamuco is every bit as good.

As for DH suspension the Saber should be a little better with the linkage system, but it doesn't ride that way. It could be the spring rate is not right for me on our Saber, but the Chamuco seems to flow over the bumps better. I would guess that deeper in the travel the Sabers wheel starts coming forward at greater rate than the Chamuco. A forward moving wheel is rougher in the bumps.

The wheel base of the smaller Saber is a bit shorter than the Chamuco, mostly because of the slightly steeper HA on the Saber. That makes the Saber a bit snappier in the tight corners and a bit less stable down steep chutes.

Compared to the ASX I find the differences are greater, eventhough the frame designs look similar. The ASX has a bit over 7" of travel, is 1.5 lbs heavier and has a much higher pivot. The travel and the weight at obvious differences, but the pivot location is the biggest difference I notice.

The higher pivot of the ASX means a lot more chain pull in the granny gear. Pedaling the ASX up rocky climbs requires timing the pedal strokes around rocks and ledges. For most ASX owners this is a small inconvienence because the ASX is pretty much a FR bike. I see the Chamuco as a heavy duty trail bike.

On the flip side, I built a 31.0 lbs '03 ASX for my GF that is a full 3 lbs lighter than my Chamuco. It wasn't easy to do, but she loves that bike. To build an '04 ASX that light would be really tough because it is heavier than the '03 and has a steeper HA requiring a taller fork than the '02 Z1QR20 (very light compared to '04 Marz Z1).

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by mack
Venttana makes very good bikes for sure, better than bikes that have been welded by kids in taiwan.

that is a pretty assinine statement there Mack.......you are over-generalizing to an amazingly high degree.

 

[Jm_]

Originally posted by The Kadvang

Cove G-Spot (Concentric Pivot = s**t pedaling?)
.

Yes, sh*tty pedaling, but with a platform shock, not that bad. I've ridden them, and they are indeed one of the worst-pedaling bikes invented, but with a platform shock it pedals ok and is a pretty good design.

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by MMcG
that is a pretty assinine statement there Mack.......you are over-generalizing to an amazingly high degree.

It's not generalization at all; it's just plain wrong...

 

[SuspectDevice]

I would sell my family, and my girlfriends family, and a Kidney, and my Spleen to have a Patriot. By far the most lustalicous, perfectly dialed medium travel bike on the planet....:heart:

 

[Jm_]

Originally posted by SuspectDevice
I would sell my family, and my girlfriends family, and a Kidney, and my Spleen to have a Patriot. By far the most lustalicous, perfectly dialed medium travel bike on the planet....:heart:

How about this, you come up with all that money, I'll give you a bullit which has a similer pivot location and a similer weight (just less than a pound), and then I'll keep the $1000 extra....

 

[SuspectDevice]

Originally posted by Jm_
How about this, you come up with all that money, I'll give you a bullit which has a similer pivot location and a similer weight (just less than a pound), and then I'll keep the $1000 extra....

But, the geometry on the bullit is Horrid, it isn't nearly as stiff, It has more travel, and it doesn't turn into a beast of a mtx bike with an 6.5" e-e air shock....

 

[jncarpenter]

Originally posted by Zark
.....What is the scoop with the Highline? I haven't heard of anything since the rough proto at Interbike. That bike really has potential!...

....straight from the horses mouth...

Posted on MTBR by Dave Turner
...The Highline is the only frame in the line that will have adjustable travel for next year. You put that Maz 150 or the new 66 on it and with the 7" position the geometry will be good. It can still be hucked and dropped untill YOU snap as the fork and frame are a super extreme combo. Change the rear to 8.5" and put a Monster or a 888 on it and it will take that too, but it is still aimed at the same rider and the same use/terrain....

 

[The Kadvang]

Originally posted by MikeD
be to describe the characteristics you want in your bike, especially geometry and suspension characteristics (is pedaling or plushness more important? Does brake jack matter to you? etc.). Be a little more specific than "light and flickable." Do you want a long TT and low BB height? Do you like short chainstays and high BBs?

MD

Thanks MD, its defintly starting to get a little off track here. Sooo, I'm a pinner (120) guy looking for a new freeride fully. Frame only, I'll be swapping over my z150/hopes etc. from my old build. I'm looking for a frame with ideally six inches (maybe 7 if geo. would work out) and built tough, but still lightish. I'll be going decently big (around 10 footers, some dh) but am mostly riding fast dh trails with pedalling and uphill sections, along with tables/small drops.
In terms of suspenion, I'd like a bike that pedals well but suspension performance is more important: ie if it sacrafices plushness for pedaling, I might not love it. Brake jack is really not an issue, nothing too steep around here. For geo, I would like "light and flickable" , but coming off my ht I want something with low standover, short chainstays, and an overall small package. Right now the hecker is looking really enticing, as is the el chamuco.

 

[MikeD]

I'd get the Patriot if I were you..."light and flickable" describe it well. Its suspension isn't super plush if you're trying to pedal through rough stuff, but since you're looking at a heckler, you should be cool with the high-pivot suspension.

What about the Mtn Cycle Sin or whatever their new model is called? (or the San Andreas for that matter...) Another high pivot...

The hecklers are REALLY cool bikes, but just feel more trail-bikey to me than I'd want for jumping or anything like that. Then again, my buddy's is HUGE, so maybe that's why I have that impression. I guess compare the geo numbers to the Patriot and see what you get...

Another buddy has a Saber, btw, and while it's not as solid-feeling as my RFX, it's not anywhere near the tanklike weight of the RFX, either.

MD

 

[SuspectDevice]

I rode Hecklers in Small and Medium last year when i was trying to decide on a MTX/superD bike. Unfortunately the BB is just kinda high for my liking. Same geometry, slightly longer top tubes and 1" lower bbs and they'd have themself one hell of a little ripper...

 

[The Kadvang]

Hmmm... Patriot looks awesome, but the price is way to high. Unless I could find one used, I don't think its an option. I checked out the sin, but I don't think the travel would be balanced with 7 in the back and 6 in the front, possibly too steep. Heckler is looking nice right now, but hopefully I can ride one before deciding. Hm. High-pivot doesnt really bother me, most of the uphill stuff is fire-road. Thanks for the help.

 

[Chris R]

I'd deffinately rate the Patriot (look in my sig at mine ;D) Patriots are great rides, although bear in mind you do need a platform shock to get some decent pedalling out of it, it's pretty plush, can take basically any fork (apart from super monster t's) without the head angle being overly slack, really light so can be easily ridden anywhere easily, I think mine weighs like 36lbs , and it can take anything, I know a few people who do some pretty big road gaps/stair gaps on theirs and they're still going strong! Deffinately go for it I don't know what the price is over there but you won't be dissapointed no matter how much you spend.

CR

 

[MikeD]

Seriously...does the Patriot cost more than the Ventana...???

I agree with SuspectDevice on the Heckler's geometry. It's just not a low, fast, slack-feeling, short-assed machine to me...it's more suited to slow, technical singletrack climbs and descents IMHO.

I'm not so sure the Sin would be out of place with a 6" fork. The Z150 is tall, and most bikes these days seem to have an inch or so less travel in the front.

MD

 

[The Kadvang]

Originally posted by MikeD
Seriously...does the Patriot cost more than the Ventana...???

MD

My bad, you're right, I was looking at the complete price. I thought 2,000 Pounds for that frame was pushing it :. So, looks like the orange is looking really nice right now. Anyone in the states riding one, and howd u get it? What was the price? Too bad about the heckler, I've seen some built up for freeride and they loooked nice. I'm still considerin it however. Thanks guys.

 

[T-Pirate]

Originally posted by The Kadvang
Hmmm... Patriot looks awesome, but the price is way to high. Unless I could find one used, I don't think its an option. I checked out the sin, but I don't think the travel would be balanced with 7 in the back and 6 in the front, possibly too steep. Heckler is looking nice right now, but hopefully I can ride one before deciding. Hm. High-pivot doesnt really bother me, most of the uphill stuff is fire-road. Thanks for the help.

My sgs is 6 front, 7 rear, and I dont notice the difference.

 

[The Kadvang]

To reiterate about the travel, its not so much the amount that I would be worried about but that fact that it would mess with the angles of a bike designed for a 7" fork.
Now all that remains is to find a Patriot for less than an arm and a leg. Beyondbikes has them for 1850. Ugh.

 

[The Kadvang]

Anyone got a small patriot for sale?

 

[Ice Bullit]

I think you know what my vote is

I really like my Dirtbag, it keeps surprising me with how much it can actually do. It is super solid and hadles the knarly stuff with out flinching. My vote is go with the Dirtbag, you won't be disipointed.