[Dog Welder]

I've heard from some folks that this doesn't work but so far I've been able to recover three sets of pads that have had a LOT of oil spill on them.

This past weekend I broke my fork causing oil to drip all over my front calliper. This was a LOT of oil, as in a constant dripping over the caliper. Any ways when I first pulled my pads I cleaned them off first with a little simple green. I then turned on my stove and held the pad over the fire until the oil burned off. This will take a few minutes. WHat I've noticed is that despite looking "dry" after a few seconds over the flame teh pads started to sweat, in that there was visible liquid on the edges of the pad. wipe off the fluid with a paper towel. Continue to hold the pad over the flame and with will start to smoke and then catch on fire. What I took this as was the oil burning off. Depending on how much oil spilled on the pad, it will burn for a few seconds and go out by itself. Clean with alcohol and the pads are as good as new. Needlenose pliers work well to hold the pad over the flame.

So far this has worked with Suspension oil and shimano mineral oil on the pad. I haven't had the chance to see if this will work with DOT fluid but if anyone tries let us know.

 

[Orvan]

in my dirt poor college days...when I contaminate my Hayes pads..I'd boil them in hot water and flame roasted..Good as new.. My roommate didn't appreciate me using her stove pot..but what did she know?

 

[urmombbgiakleaa]

I have read on throttle twister sites that a propane torch works well too.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I always use a torch with Mapp gas, then clean up with emery cloth.

 

[Dog Welder]

I've also found out that if after doing all of this doesn't bring your stopping power back to normal standards....a long non technical dh run or road ride where you can drag your brakes seems to scrape off the first layers of pad to expose fresh pad. I had a problem with my rear disks and after a couple of runs they are back to normal.

 

[gtbike]

Originally posted by Dog Welder
I've also found out that if after doing all of this doesn't bring your stopping power back to normal standards....a long non technical dh run or road ride where you can drag your brakes seems to scrape off the first layers of pad to expose fresh pad. I had a problem with my rear disks and after a couple of runs they are back to normal.

When you do this, you are then contaminating the rotor. Of course the rotot is easier to clean with some brake cleaner.

 

[Spanky]

I have 3-4 sets in the garage that I'm going out to try it on now thanks !!!!

 

[dangerman42]

BEST WAY YET:

99.99% results.

use a clean tuna fishcan ( or something like it, must be somewhat shalow) to hold a few ounces of isoproplyl alchohol. alcholol burns very very very clean and leaves no residue on the pads. ignight the alchohol in the tin and use plyers to hold the pads over the flame. after a few seconds, dip the pads into the alchohol and let them light on fire. the heat will help get all the oil the pads obsorbed. dip the pads like 5 times.

let the pads sit out for a minute or two and then use 500 grit sand paper laid out on a flat surface. lightly polish the face of the pad to bring it to a near new condition.


i have had oil on my pads and done this minutes before a ride, then gone out and had perfect braking all day long.

 

[Spanky]

Sweet pic ! tried it almost burned the house down!

 

[Shibby]

you tha man! i gotta go try this one! i've burned em and cleaned em with alcohol, but havent done both at the same time as of yet.

scout shibby will report back in 10 minutes

Originally posted by dangerman42
BEST WAY YET:

99.99% results.

use a clean tuna fishcan ( or something like it, must be somewhat shalow) to hold a few ounces of isoproplyl alchohol. alcholol burns very very very clean and leaves no residue on the pads. ignight the alchohol in the tin and use plyers to hold the pads over the flame. after a few seconds, dip the pads into the alchohol and let them light on fire. the heat will help get all the oil the pads obsorbed. dip the pads like 5 times.

let the pads sit out for a minute or two and then use 500 grit sand paper laid out on a flat surface. lightly polish the face of the pad to bring it to a near new condition.


i have had oil on my pads and done this minutes before a ride, then gone out and had perfect braking all day long.

 

[Shibby]

it worked for a couple of stops, and they now are back to their usual state... only lock if i unweight the rear wheel... rrrgh...

it was damn fun lighting the can full of alcohol on fire though soak pad, burn, dump back into fluid (bubble/froth/more flame). too much fun

 

[PGR]

I didn't get enough power in my XT's. I ahd gotten really desperate and was trying to sell them. Anyhow, I pulled out the pads and burnt them with a propane torch, until they startet to smoke, and then a little more.

I did this in the beginning of January, and the power has been great since.

These pads weren't contaminated though.

 

[Dog Welder]

I just opened up my disks and the fluid was HEAVILY CLouded over...not only that but I found what looked to be dark snot at the bottom of my resivour (sp?) WTF is that stuff? Oh and does anyone know if automotive brake cleaner will clean pads that have been contaminated?

 

[Shibby]

hayes recommends against using brake cleaner.

i only use brake cleaner on dirty chains that i want to make into jewelry, personally...

 

[Shibby]

i'm going to have to make a stop by my friend's house and play with his butane minitorch, then

 

[heikkihall]

thats an innovative one using both isopropyl and an open flame :devil:

 

[Jekyll800]

we have a fireplace in our back yard so i grab a can of compressed air and voila! instant flamethrower so i clean it that way

 

[Dog Welder]

Originally posted by Jekyll800
we have a fireplace in our back yard so i grab a can of compressed air and voila! instant flamethrower so i clean it that way

UUuuuuhhhhh ok

First of all why not burn the pads like I said by holding them over a stove rather than your "flamethrower" technique?

Second I'm not sure compressed air burns. I believe the reason why hairspray burns is cuz its got alcohol in it.

 

[shootr]

I think that there are some details that you are all ignoring.

In the production of brake pads, the Pucks themselves are formed by combining a variety or metal and organic compounds, mixing them with a catalysing resin, and compression forming them.
If the process is done well and controlled well the composite matrix forms itself into a grain under the immense pressure (and heat that goes with it).
This structure is solidified and held together by the resin.
The problem is that even under the tremedous pressure used there are microscopic pores, and these pores arange to form tiny fissures.
The problem with this is that it leads to capillary action.
Capillary action is the attraction of the surface of a liquid to the surface of a solid, which either elevates or depresses the liquid depending upon molecular surface forces; for example, crude oil clings to the surface of each pore in a rock formation, making it difficult to recover oil.
unfortunately this is what makes it so difficult to remove fluids from your brake pads.

How to compensate for it is to alter the surface tension of fluid which is contaminating the pad.
Heat is one way to do that, but the problem is that if you do not provide a stronger capillary effect, the fluid will remain where it is.
Another option is Dilution, the problem with this is that it still does not actually remove the contaminant, only change it with another.
So the best is evaporation...
This is where the confusion starts. Oil does NOT evaporate, at least not at room temp. so people heat up the substrate to aid in evaporation..except in the case of oil that is not that effective, the net result is that you end up burning the oil instead, leaving undesireable residues in the process. This will improve the pad, but never bring it back to normal.
The only real way of actually "cleaning" the pad is to allow it so sit in a dissolving agent long enough for the solvent to thoroughly replace the contaminant and then evaporate the solvent. Unfortunately this has 2 major drawbacks, first is that the solvent may actually denegrate the resin which binds the matrix, (why they recommend against brake cleaner), and second that it takes a REAL long time since the spaces we are talking about are sometimes only a few molecules in width, making it very difficult for a new molecule to displace the old.
So really you are left with a compromise in any case.
some things that will NOT work....
"Flamethrowering the freakin pad", this only heats the surface, and slightly at that.
sanding the surface, it may look clean, but the second it warms up fluid will come rushing out.

If you want to heat the pad, you have to do so slowly and thoroughly, and FOR A LONG TIME. (Ideally you would use a vacuum autoclave, but I dont have one & I bet you are in the same boat).
You also have to get them hot enough to burn the oil, but not so hot that the resin burns..this is the tricky part.

Most oils will not burn below about 700deg. F, so the oven or the toaster oven is out of the question.
If you live in a cold climate, and have a wood stove, that you keep running for a few days on end, toss them in and fish them out a few days later. then they should be good, as for the rest of us, see if you can swindle someone in art class, or at a pottery place to let you put them in the Kiln.
good luck.

 

[HOOWAH]

and the direct heat method but nothing beats boiling them in a big ole pot for a half hour with palmolive dish detergent. i think that the heat gives the detergent more energy to get in there and break up the oil better.

gotta watch out for the overflowing suds.

I know this works for getting brake fluid off. i'm not sure about other kinds of oil.


Tom

 

[shootr]

Technically brake fluid is not oil, it is actually very far from it, it is closer to alcohol and glycol (rad antifreeze), it is also water soluble, which means that you don't really even need the soap.
The heat reduces the surface tension of both the water and the brake fluid, making them dissolve easier.

If you used something like laundry detergent, and water (not too much det. the water is what actually does the work), and did it for a long time, maybe in something like a pressure cooker pot, (it raises the boiling point), it may work on pads not to highly contaminated.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Originally posted by shootr
Technically brake fluid is not oil, it is actually very far from it, it is closer to alcohol and glycol (rad antifreeze)...

Ummm...

Depends on the manufacturer and maybe model. Magura uses mineral oil.

By the way, about the prior suggestion about pottery kilns:

• Electric (low fire) kiln would probably be ok, but don't do it in mine, I don't want the kiln contaminated.
• Stoneware kiln would probably vaporize the pads, re-read above about kiln contamination.

By the time you get past the RTFM issues and the tooling, it's way cheaper to buy new pads. Trying to clean them is a desperation move, no parts and need to stay in the race ploy.

J

 

[shootr]

I agree with you wholeheartedly.
that is why I went to the lengthy explanation..because people often demand to know WHY they can't really clean them...
Yes it is best to just throw them away.
any cleaning effort will only have marginal results at best, and the time consumed is enormous.

And like you I would NEVER let anyone put their contaminated parts in my kiln for the same reason (if I had a kiln)

I think that I may have lost the gist of my point in my explanations.
you very succinctly summed it up.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

shootr,

I thought your comments were excellent. They were written in English, and contained actual facts pertaining to the question at hand. Beats two word threads any day.

John

 

[Shibby]

Thanks for the info, shootr. Excellent information!

Basically, my rear brake (Hayes HMX-1) had not been working at all; WHY is anyone's guess, but after much d*cking around with different burning and cleaning techniques, I decided that it was best (as it always turns out to be) to soak the entire rotor and pads in alcohol, and set the whole kit'n'kaboodle on fire.

Long story short, it actually worked, so the brake has power now. Methinks the rotor was contaminated. Only downside: the things squeal like no other. Yeow.

 

[shootr]

thank you both, but I am merely trying to be helpful where I can.

As for the contamination problem with your rotor,
Rotor themselves are homogenous steel alloys, so you will NOT get contamination in the form of capillary action.
You will however get surface contamination (glazing), due to the contaminates in the pad being burned and adhering themselves to the surface of the rotor.
Those contaminants also inclue the pad's own resin.
That would drastically change (lower) the coefficient of friction between the two surfaces.
The difficulty with dealing with glazing is that since it was formed at very high temps (on a steep fast descent your front rotor will exceed 1000deg.F) it is VERY hard. and being so hard it is difficult for solvents to penetrate it.
Fortunately it is almost impossible to damage the rotor itself with solvents of any kind, so you can use anything including disc brake cleaner (but only on the rotor), and to make the operation even easier you can use a mild abrasive such as a 3M Scotchbrite pad (green) to aid you.
I don't think that it has occured in your case, but another thing that can happen is that if the rotor gets hot enough it can glaze itself, meaning that it becomes surface hardened, which also reduces the coefficient of friction.
That has to be dealt with by surface reconditioning.

As for the squeal/squeek...
To eliminate this you have to first understand what causes it.
The squeals come from highfrequency (15-20kHz) oscillations of the pad. these freq. are transmitted and amplified by the natural resonance of the rotor and other components.
To eliminate the noise you must eliminate the pads oscillation, or at least diminish and dampen it, so that it does not resonate.
This oscillation does NOT occur relatively between the pad and the rotor, but rather the pad and the caliper.
That is why some calipers have a urethane-based coating on the backing plate, where it contacts the caliper.
if this area is bare (metal on metal) there will always be noise (unless one of the metals are annealled, but I will leave that).
The best solution to this problem is to provide a non-metallic transfer medium which will absorb the vibrations.
I have found that a VERY thin coating of RTV silicone works very well, or you can go to a local auto parts supplier and locate "disc brake anti squeal".
good luck.

 

[Universe]

I found that baking in the oven on 350 for 15 mins then boiling for 10 worked the best. I've done 2 sets of pads this way and they both work great.

 

[SKYWAYBUZZ]

Ya torched my 99 Louises and worked very well but when I did my Hope C2 pads the pads came right off !

 

[JRogers]

Shootr, good info for us. I have thrown out some pads that were bad but I think I might try to burn up the old ones to have a set of spares. Hey, if people say that it works, I don't care what science is behind it.

 

[shootr]

That is all fine and dandy if you are just freeriding around town, and in some trails, and never work your brakes to hard..
(because the surface will be fairly clean)
BUT
if you have a set of contaminated pads installed and you are at a competition, and you are flying downhill, the heat that your front brake will develop is extreme, enough to make the pad leach the oil which contaminates it...and suddenly POOF.
NO BRAKES....
then you will sure wish you had just thrown them away and gotten new ones...at least if you remember after the severe concussion you recieve when you go cartwheeling off into the forest ringing your head off every tree in your path...

just a thought....mull it over.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Originally posted by SKYWAYBUZZ
Ya torched my 99 Louises and worked very well but when I did my Hope C2 pads the pads came right off !

That happened to me today with my Julie pads. I'm not sure if it's a heating and cooling rate issue or a max temperature issue, but the composite pad separated from the metal backing and fell off.

Reinforces the premise that this technique is for emergencies only.

J

 

[Earthmover]

Man, I wish I'd read the Hope C2 post about a 1/2 hour ago. Those pads definately don't like torching. Pads are cheap enough, I'm just buying new ones from here out...

 

[Drunken_Ninja]

Alcohol still isn't fast enough.

Methyl Hydrate from canadian tire or your local automotive store.

just pour some on the pads and you are done.

DO NOT get any on your hands or you are screwed for the day and it takes more than just gallons of water to get if off. It burns as cold as hell and right to the bone. Expect to scream in agony if you get it on you.

it drys after cleaning the pads instantly within 3 seconds. It doesn't take more than a drop either.

Then you can go race some more. Not a trace of residue gets left on the pads and they come out dried and clean too.

that is what the professionals were using at the shop for the 24hours of adrenaline races here.

Alcohol takes too long to dry and it squeels a little til it burns off. If it burns off.

You don't want alcohol on your pads. Rotors, it is ok. not the pads.

as for the rest of your torching, boiling or dishwashing your pads? stop. this method works on all pads.

 

[BRacing]

shooter -

You have been correct.

The best way I've found to clean contaminated pads is to soak them in hot (boiling) water with dishwater detergent. Usually I'll heat up the water with the detergent, drop the pads in, and let them soak (and the water cool) overnight. This usually disolves any oils in the pads and pulls it out. I will also clean the rotors with rubbing alcohol and scuff them with a light-grit sandpaper.

Reinstall the pads the next day, rinse them in water and bed-in the brakes again. I've used this successfully for many events, and the pads never seem to fade away as if the oils were resurfacing.

I don't like the cooking/burning method of removing oils from the pads. This actually works for extended periods of time without damaging the pads.

-Brad

 

[Drunken_Ninja]

Originally posted by Drunken_Ninja
Alcohol still isn't fast enough.

Methyl Hydrate from canadian tire or your local automotive store.

just pour some on the pads and you are done.

DO NOT get any on your hands or you are screwed for the day and it takes more than just gallons of water to get if off. It burns as cold as hell and right to the bone. Expect to scream in agony if you get it on you.

it drys after cleaning the pads instantly within 3 seconds. It doesn't take more than a drop either.

Then you can go race some more. Not a trace of residue gets left on the pads and they come out dried and clean too.

that is what the professionals were using at the shop for the 24hours of adrenaline races here.

Alcohol takes too long to dry and it squeels a little til it burns off. If it burns off.

You don't want alcohol on your pads. Rotors, it is ok. not the pads.

as for the rest of your torching, boiling or dishwashing your pads? stop. this method works on all pads.

one tip regarding shimano brake pads. Just the yellow ones. Don't leave methyl hydrate on these ones for very long. It may be a better idea to rinse them afterward quickly just because they bubble funny as the pad deteriorates a little bit.

That was the only problem pad that i've seen. Of course it works way better with just metal based pads. At a race you don't always have time to attempt to boil your pads.

Boiling works sure, it is the only other way i would consider if i didn't have methyl hydrate.

I would use the methyl hydrate sparingly since it is a highly reactive substance.

Anyway with the shimano pads some of the yellow might come off if you leave it on too long and they turn brownish-red. I am not sure how bad that actually is...

 

[golgiaparatus]

Ive never totally saturated my pads. But Ive gotten some lube on the disc surface which ended up contaminating the pad. I just rode it several times down a really steep hill while pedaling and braking at the same time. After several times down the hill and lots of heat and friction they worked as good, if not better than new.

Ill have to reebmer the fire trick if I ever really get them soaked.