[1000-Oaks]

So according to Snow Summit's chairlift rules, no bikes over 35 lbs are allowed. That eliminates DH bikes, but it also eliminates all of the cheap & heavy 2" travel Huffy-type suspension bikes.

That's pretty crummy, it basically says you can't ride the lift unless you can afford a $1,500 bike or better. Seems to me the 2.5" tire size and 6" suspension travel maximums are more than enough to keep the DH bikes off the lift, why bother with a weight limit?

Grrrrrrr, now my bro can't ride Snow Summit because he has a cheap, heavy XC bike...


Snow Summit's Rules:
Any one of the following four factors will disqualify a bike from being transported on the chair:

1. Bikes must be less than 35 pounds.
2. Designated tire size must be less than 2.5.
3. Front shock must have less than 6 inches of travel.
4. Bikes must have three chain rings unless they are single speed.

 

[Zark]

Screw S.S. Boycott the fokkers for being spineless corporate urchins.

Dude, there are way better places to ride anyway!

 

[bfranke]

Definitely got to boycott them. Seems like the only bikes they want are XC, but XC and chairlifts just don't add up, IMO. Shouldn't they be riding up the mtn?????????????????

 

[LOOnatic]

Its your duty to stay away and not give them $$$.
We have to make them hurt as much as possible for as long as possible.
Comprende'?

 

[Ciaran]

Yeah, eff snow summit. People need to get it through their heads... Downhilling at Snow Summit is DEAD. It's not coming back, and even if it did it's a half assed place to ride anyway. What are you planning on doing? Taking the lift up and riding the illegal trails? If so then all you are doing is pounding in the nails on the SoCal DH coffin. If there is one thing I have learned so far working on the Mt. Baldy project is that the forest service knows exactly what's going on. Despite what people think, the FS is watching us.

Instead of driving two hours to Big Bear I would rather drive 2.5 hours and go shuttle with the S.B. peeps.

Downhilling is going to come back to So Cal, but it takes a lot of hard work and patience. If you are interisted in doing some hard work for your sport, PM me.

 

[Rabie]

So according to Snow Summit's chairlift rules, no bikes over 35 lbs are allowed. That eliminates DH bikes, but it also eliminates all of the cheap & heavy 2" travel Huffy-type suspension bikes.

That's pretty crummy, it basically says you can't ride the lift unless you can afford a $1,500 bike or better. Seems to me the 2.5" tire size and 6" suspension travel maximums are more than enough to keep the DH bikes off the lift, why bother with a weight limit?

Grrrrrrr, now my bro can't ride Snow Summit because he has a cheap, heavy XC bike...


Snow Summit's Rules:
Any one of the following four factors will disqualify a bike from being transported on the chair:

1. Bikes must be less than 35 pounds.
2. Designated tire size must be less than 2.5.
3. Front shock must have less than 6 inches of travel.
4. Bikes must have three chain rings unless they are single speed.

They are human beings loading the chairs, not robots, and given your point that the spirit of the rules is to keep DH bikes off the lift (and that the human beings working there know this), your bro should be able to get on no problem.

 

[Zark]

They are human beings loading the chairs, not robots, and given your point that the spirit of the rules is to keep DH bikes off the lift (and that the human beings working there know this), your bro should be able to get on no problem.

Don't encourage him or I'll have you deported Paki!

 

[1000-Oaks]

Instead of driving two hours to Big Bear I would rather drive 2.5 hours and go shuttle with the S.B. peeps.

I'd say it's just a matter of time before bikes are eliminated from the SB trails...even if we really behave.

To delay it as long as possible I've already sent letters to all of the politicians that have anything to do with those trails and thanked them for continuing to allow bikes on the trails. Talked about the great scenery, enjoyable rides, mentioned that 99% of the hikers I talked to were very friendly to bikers, etc. How many letters like that do you think they receive? Probably none, so I'm sure more would help.

I can PM the URL of a web site with all of the email addresses if anyone wants to send their own letters.

 

[Ciaran]

I'd say it's just a matter of time before bikes are eliminated from the SB trails...even if we really behave.

To delay it as long as possible I've already sent letters to all of the politicians that have anything to do with those trails and thanked them for continuing to allow bikes on the trails. Talked about the great scenery, enjoyable rides, mentioned that 99% of the hikers I talked to were very friendly to bikers, etc. How many letters like that do you think they receive? Probably none, so I'm sure more would help.

I can PM the URL of a web site with all of the email addresses if anyone wants to send their own letters.

Absolutely! This is great idea. I encourage everyone to get to know their local rangers and trail access groups. The Sierra Club does things like this to help get bikes banned, we should do things like this to get more trails opened to us. Remember, it's never a matter of TIME before we're banned. It's a matter of EFFORT. Send the URLs, e-mail addresses and snail mail addresses. We'll all write letters.

I usually shuttle locally, but I really need to get up to S.B.

 

[1000-Oaks]

There's a bit of irony in the email list I used:

http://www.safetrails.net/send_to.asp


For those of you who have never seen it, this web site is an absolutely fanatical ANTI-BIKES IN SANTA BARBARA site. Which makes it perfect for us to use, because most of the politicians on the list get only nasty letters from rich anti-bike hikers and horseback riders.

If you can only write one letter, send it to Kerry Kellog, who is the Forest Service gentleman in charge of the front country trails. His number 805-967-3481 X231 if you want to call him.

Kerry is one of the FEW people on the list who feels strongly about keeping the trails multi-use, and is probably the ONLY reason these trails are still open to bikes. We owe him BIG. Letters from us can probably help him keep the trails open.

When you contact most of the other folks they'll ask you to contact Kerry instead, but at least these other (fence-sitters or possibly anti-bike) people will have seen your pro-bike letters. It all helps.

 

[Ciaran]

There's a bit of irony in the email list I used:

http://www.safetrails.net/send_to.asp


For those of you who have never seen it, this web site is an absolutely fanatical ANTI-BIKES IN SANTA BARBARA site. Which makes it perfect for us to use, because most of the politicians on the list get only nasty letters from rich anti-bike hikers and horseback riders.

If you can only write one letter, send it to Kerry Kellog, who is the Forest Service gentleman in charge of the front country trails. His number 805-967-3481 X231 if you want to call him.

Kerry is one of the FEW people on the list who feels strongly about keeping the trails multi-use, and is probably the ONLY reason these trails are still open to bikes. We owe him BIG. Letters from us can probably help him keep the trails open.

When you contact most of the other folks they'll ask you to contact Kerry instead, but at least these other (fence-sitters or possibly anti-bike) people will have seen your pro-bike letters. It all helps.

Yeah, I've seen "SafeTrails.net"... they are just awful. Full of lies. Someone needs to find the guy in charge of that site and expose him as the lying, hate filled person that he is. Anyone here have mad hacking skills?

 

[arboc!]

That's pretty crummy, it basically says you can't ride the lift unless you can afford a $1,500 bike or better.

my bike was only $500 and it weighs 30 lbs.... money really has nothing at all to do with weight

 

[1000-Oaks]

I'm talking about suspension bikes, not hardtails. And sure, there are some cheap suspenion bikes under 35 lbs. But there are plenty of cheap suspension bikes over 35 lbs too, should those guys have to sell their bike and buy a new lighter one just because they want to ride the lift?

Money has EVERYTHING to do with weight, just compare the weight of cheap components to XTR stuff. It all works exactly the same, the only difference is weight.

 

[arboc!]

what about real a dh bike? you can go up to $5000+ and its gonna weigh around 40lbs. and about the cranks, it doesnt all work the same... xtr cranks are going to be much stronger and better performing than a set of $60 cranks. you can buy really light parts for alot of money, but there are heavy ones that are just as much.

 

[blt2ride]

So according to Snow Summit's chairlift rules, no bikes over 35 lbs are allowed. That eliminates DH bikes, but it also eliminates all of the cheap & heavy 2" travel Huffy-type suspension bikes.

That's pretty crummy, it basically says you can't ride the lift unless you can afford a $1,500 bike or better. Seems to me the 2.5" tire size and 6" suspension travel maximums are more than enough to keep the DH bikes off the lift, why bother with a weight limit?

Grrrrrrr, now my bro can't ride Snow Summit because he has a cheap, heavy XC bike...


Snow Summit's Rules:
Any one of the following four factors will disqualify a bike from being transported on the chair:

1. Bikes must be less than 35 pounds.
2. Designated tire size must be less than 2.5.
3. Front shock must have less than 6 inches of travel.
4. Bikes must have three chain rings unless they are single speed.

That's kind of ironic, since they used to rent low-end bikes to people, and then send them down Westridge...

 

[HarryCallahan]

Yeah, I've seen "SafeTrails.net"... they are just awful. Full of lies. ...

Ciaran,

That site is bad news. The guy behind it is a well known kook from the bay area named Mike Vandemann. He's been banned from several forums and club lists for flame wars and such. He's a pseudo-scientist, but some folks fall for his crap, particularly if they happen to agree with him.

 

[Ciaran]

Ciaran,

That site is bad news. The guy behind it, though, is a well known kook from the bay area named Mike Vandemann. He's been banned from several forums and club lists for flame wars and such. He's a pseudo-scientist, but some folks fall for his crap, particularly if they happen to agree with him.

I'd like to suggest that you and 1000 Oaks take down the threats and personal info about that UCSB prof. Some idiot is likely to take it seriously, and if it gets back to the guy, or the Forest Service, it sure won't help your credibility.

He sounds like California's Ernie Crist. (North Shore MTB/FR detractor). I agree that we should not post anythig that can be misconstrued by that jerk, because that's exactly what he does. He's very much like a politician in that respect. I do think that people should write INTELLIGENT letters to the forest service their local government, and anyone else who will listen. Kooks like him need to be exposed as the lying hate filled frauds that they really are.

His personal info is a matter of public record. It's very easy to get.

That's kind of ironic, since they used to rent low-end bikes to people, and then send them down Westridge...

Yet another example of what Snow Summit really cares about. Not the safety of the customers, just the money in the customers pocket.

 

[snutty]

Yeah, eff snow summit. People need to get it through their heads... Downhilling at Snow Summit is DEAD. It's not coming back, and even if it did it's a half assed place to ride anyway. What are you planning on doing? Taking the lift up and riding the illegal trails? If so then all you are doing is pounding in the nails on the SoCal DH coffin. If there is one thing I have learned so far working on the Mt. Baldy project is that the forest service knows exactly what's going on. Despite what people think, the FS is watching us.

Instead of driving two hours to Big Bear I would rather drive 2.5 hours and go shuttle with the S.B. peeps.

Downhilling is going to come back to So Cal, but it takes a lot of hard work and patience. If you are interisted in doing some hard work for your sport, PM me.

yup your right, the forest service knows whats going on...they know ALOT more then you think..And the more and more illegal stuff going on the more, they will hate us mtn bikers...we alreldy have a bad image with the forest service

 

[alloutproductio]

yeah, vandemann's infamous up here in the bay area,
'cause he lives right near one of the only dh trails around
up in the berkeley hills (side-O)...
he's tried to boycott local bikeshops,
spread rumours about bikers running over endangered gofersnakes,
tried to physically assault riders on the trail, etc. etc.
one of my friends almost busted him upside the head with his
bike when vandemann ran up on him waving a log....
whatanass!

 

[chicodude]

Norcal kid here.


From what I read here, SS sucks ass.



BOYCOTT

 

[1000-Oaks]

Just spoke with one of the lift operators, he said if my bro's bike really is XC-ish (less than 2.5" tires, three chainrings and less than 6" travel fork) they'd let it on the lift, even though it weighs 38 lbs.

So common sense does prevail, hopefully. That's a long way to drive to be turned around.

 

[Pegboy]

I'm not sure that it is prevailing if you are giving them your money, especially if the bike has three rings...

 

[Ciaran]

Just spoke with one of the lift operators, he said if my bro's bike really is XC-ish (less than 2.5" tires, three chainrings and less than 6" travel fork) they'd let it on the lift, even though it weighs 38 lbs.

So common sense does prevail, hopefully. That's a long way to drive to be turned around.

And I ask again... what trails are you riding that you need a lift to access them???

If you are giving money to Snow Summit then common sense is not prevailing.

 

[1000-Oaks]

Snow Summit is a business, plain and simple. Aside from a very meager profit, I don't expect them to have any unrealistic loyalty to mountain biking. The sightseeing chairlift will continue to run with or without bikes. The fact that they are allowing XC bikes instead of closing the lift to them altogether is a SERVICE to the public, and one I don't mind paying a few bucks for.

There are still legitimate, non-pirate fireroads and trails that are still fun to cruise down - routes that are no fun to pedal UP in the summer heat. I'm no DH pro and neither are my friends or our girlfriends, who didn't like riding down the ski runs in the first place (too steep and loose for them). So for our little weekend group, not a whole lot has changed.

So what will a pathetic boycott accomplish? Nothing. They don't need your $20, they don't need mine. I'm surprised they offered DH in the first place, given the profit to liability ratio. So letting XC bikes on the lift is better than nothing, and regardless of how often I go or don't go I know someone is up there having some fun and appreciates it.

And don't talk to me about supporting the DH cause, I seriously injured myself "near" SS two years ago and racked up well over $60,000 of medical bills. Did I sue SS? No, I gritted my teeth and dragged myself to the bottom of the hill (took almost two hours) and stated that "the injury happened on 2N10", so my insurance company doesn't have anyone to go after to recover its loss.

I'd say I'm supporting the cause.

 

[Zutroy]

Yeah, I've seen "SafeTrails.net"... they are just awful. Full of lies. Someone needs to find the guy in charge of that site and expose him as the lying, hate filled person that he is. Anyone here have mad hacking skills?

I know i love that site.....there is soooo much in there that is just crap....especially in the psychology section.....

 

[lovebunny]

well if they dont have the illegal trails or the trails on the face what is there but fireroads?

 

[1000-Oaks]

well if they dont have the illegal trails or the trails on the face what is there but fireroads?

There are a few singletracks you can cruise down, hook up with an XC guy to get a map. Not steep and no drops, but it beats pedalling up.

 

[EBasil]

Tons of riding and it was dead-empty, ghost-town trails for the weekend of the Fourth. If you've been there before for "large weekends", you know that the ski-lot parking was often nearly or actually FULL, and there have been many weekends where 1000 bikes were on the mountain over the course of two days. On July 2nd, at about noon, there were 4 cars in the lot and 3 bikes visible. On July 3rd, there were 3 cars in the lot at 9:00, and about 20 at 2:30 when we got back...the trails were empty. We saw 6 bikes the WHOLE day, and three had kickstands on them...

They loaded my full DH bike with pleasure, saying, "Since you have the Ridemonkey T-Shirt on, you get a pass." But the posted rules are as above, except that the "cut-off" tire size is 2.7". We passed a few hikers that told us they'd heard the whole mountain was just closed to bikes now, and one of them was a "genuine DH'er" that was bummed he couldn't ride his 9" travel rig there anymore. One thing we agreed on: it's a service to the community to refuse lift access to anyone on a Huffy or Motiv. Why put those folks in needless jeopardy?

For those in the "we can pedal up hills, but are willing to pay $10 for some quick altitude" -crowd, the "XC" type fireroads and singletrack are in very good shape, with less major sand deposits than in some past years. The Pine Knot singletrack is in great shape on the upper half, and pretty nuked from rain on the lower half. Plantation Trail singletrack is in great shape. That really bitchen trail leading out toward 7 Oaks is a little washed out/rutted in spots but remains so bitchen that I won't even name it... ink: The trail up around the back of Bluff Lake was in great shape. Towne Trail was...like it always is.

Big Bear, the town, is feeling the absence of the "DH Scum", let me tell you: the whole town was pretty empty "for a July 4th" and there were a LOT of vacancies throughout town, especially near Snow Summit. The lake (full!!) was pretty busy, of course. Big Bear Bikes is closed. The Team Big Bear shop at the base of the lifts is closed. The new shop on the corner of Big Bear Blvd below Snow Summit has all new stuff and nobody in it (must be a freakin' nightmare for those folks). By dumb coincidence, a big "Harley" group ride also skipped Big Bear this 4th, and there was easy parking available in the Village at almost all times.

This "pain" is good: the bastards that run the City up there, and a sleazebag element of the permanent residents, have been real full of themselves and how they should screw over the "flatlanders" and "renters" that come up to Big Bear. They want to impose rules to increase the cost of renting rooms and cabins, they want to penalize homeowners for renting cabins out, they charge non-residents more for gas, electric and water than permanent residents and they are so crooked they have to screw their shoes on. It's about time they got a little reminder about what makes a resort town work, and I hope some businesses fold and they relearn a little lesson from the early '90's: those flatlanders and even the DH Scum are the reason why those people can live in Big Bear full time. If town goes back to a "roll up the sidewalks for summer mode", so be it.

But none of the pain will make the owners of Snow Summit bend over and take it for the shops in the Village. "It"'s over: Snow Summit is in a time-warp to 1991 mountainbiking: few bikes, no activity in the lodge on top, and a few "events" sprinkled in.

 

[1000-Oaks]

But the posted rules are as above, except that the "cut-off" tire size is 2.7".

Seriously?!!

I looooove my Michi 2.7's and one will even fit on my Shiver SC. Of course, with a 2.7" I won't be under the 35 lbs so I guess it doesn't matter.

But that means 2.5's are okay then. Excellent.

 

[Duzitall]

They have a bike rack with 2x4's spaced to measure your tires. They also have a piece of rebar bent to measure tires. If you have anything wider than a 2.5 you may not be allowed on the lift.

They have a scale to hang bikes on too but it's not really about weight, it's about what type of bike and what your intentions are on the mountain.

No single rings seems to be the big deciding factor. They are polite and reasonable.

 

[EBasil]

Seriously?!!

I looooove my Michi 2.7's and one will even fit on my Shiver SC. Of course, with a 2.7" I won't be under the 35 lbs so I guess it doesn't matter.

But that means 2.5's are okay then. Excellent.

Yeah, if it's 2.7 or bigger on the "demarcation", it's verboten und evil, and if it's a 2.5, you're good to go. They didn't even blink at my 2.3's, and I wasn't even wearing any (visible) spandex...

 

[1000-Oaks]

They have a bike rack with 2x4's spaced to measure your tires. They also have a piece of rebar bent to measure tires. If you have anything wider than a 2.5 you may not be allowed on the lift.

Panaracer Fire FR 2.4's say 2.4" on the sidewall, but they are seriously large volume. (with thin sidewalls and hard tread blocks, they're no DH tire) Just as wide as a Maxxis 2.7" Mobster actually.


My old AC with a Shiver SC and 2.4" Panaracers will be a close call, I have the old XT cranks with the integrated big chainring. I never really use big rings though, so I cut off the big ring for better log clearance. Now there's no way to reattach the big ring, unless I zip-tie one on...

 

[EBasil]

I just looked at the lame maps they were handing out (we knew our routes, so why read the pamphlet?) at Snow Summit, and it does show the entire "Ski Area" as closed to ALL bikes, and the open trails being the Forest Service roads and singletracks. But the trails signs inside Summit didn't say so... I dunno which is right.

Come to think of it, they did reroute the access to 2N10 so that you don't ride past two of those trailheads.

 

[Duzitall]

I took my ac up there with 2.4 FR's and 22-32-bash ring and they didn't even look at it but they didn't want to let my friends stinky up at first but they let him go because our other bikes were ok.

2n10 is the same except at the very top they route you away from the ski area so you won't "accidentally" ride down the face.

Edit: I guess I just said the same thing as Basil about 2n10

 

[1000-Oaks]

I took my ac up there with 2.4 FR's and 22-32-bash ring and they didn't even look at it but they didn't want to let my friends stinky up at first but they let him go because our other bikes were ok.

Did the Stinky have a dual-crown fork?

 

[Duzitall]

Yup, Jr-T and 2.5 Specialized tires. About 43 lbs I think.

 

[1000-Oaks]

Was up at SS this weekend with my GF for the WOW event, rode a bit on Sat morning.

Looks like the Forest Service ought to be happy, between the rain damage and the new lift policy it looks like no one is riding the pirate trails. I cruised to the midpoint of Cables on the fireroad and walked up a little ways, not a track on it. The trail is basically gone, all that's left is a boulder-filled streambed. Completely unrideable, at least the section I saw.

Just thought inquiring minds would want to know, the place is a ghost-town.

 

[WestCoastHucker]

all the talk about sticking it to SS by not giving them your cash is sort of funny, considering they make a full summers revenue in 3 hours of a busy winter day......

i hated BB, but it really sucks to have another spot shut down by the man so others cannot enjoy the sport....

 

[EBasil]

It's pretty much empty talk, anyway: Snow Summit closed most of the retail/food operations that they've had open in previous summers, so you couldn't spend your money there if you wanted to.

 

[downhillzeypher]

I don't see why this thread won't die.

We need to put ss out of our minds and concentrate on the FUTURE of SoCal DH! Instead of wasting your time figuring out how to get your bike onto ss sh*t trails, why don't you put that effort into thinking of our future @ baldy!