sorry to say it but over here you can sue anyone for just about anything. That does not mean you'll win though.scottishmark said:
No more Big Bear
- Thread starter Romic tech
- Start date
The rebar at Big Bear, though, is very short stakes coming out of the ground, maybe 6-8", onto which plastic pipes are placed. If you clip the pipe, it'll most likely send the pipe flying instead of taking out the rider.
It's a pretty good system, in that as a rider turns, his body and bike, as they lean over, are more likely to strike the pipe than his pedal or wheel is likely to hit the short piece of rebar sticking out of the ground. Then again, the exposed rebar, once the pipe is gone, is a horrific impaling hazard, especially for a rider following close behind. OSHA sure wouldn't stand for it.
It's not like TBB just uses a 5' peice of rebar sticking out of the ground and ties the tape to it, though.
What do other places use to mark courses, aside from snow fencing?
MD
It's a pretty good system, in that as a rider turns, his body and bike, as they lean over, are more likely to strike the pipe than his pedal or wheel is likely to hit the short piece of rebar sticking out of the ground. Then again, the exposed rebar, once the pipe is gone, is a horrific impaling hazard, especially for a rider following close behind. OSHA sure wouldn't stand for it.
It's not like TBB just uses a 5' peice of rebar sticking out of the ground and ties the tape to it, though.
What do other places use to mark courses, aside from snow fencing?
MD
You guys haven't considered another possibility.
My aunt was walking down a sidewalk in Denver one time in January. She slipped, fell and broke her wrist. The reason she fell was because a local business had turned on a spicket up the street and water had run over the sidewalk in that area and frozen into a solid sheet of ice.
She found there to be no reason to sue anyone, the thought never even crossed her mind BUT the insurance company told her if she wanted coverage she had to...could be a simlar situation....
Insurance company hears a guy hits REBAR (i know its the most commonly used course marker material for the plastic tubes...they dont know that) in a closed course DH race of COURSE they're going to want to point the finger! In case you haven't been following the news insurance companies aren't exactly having a nice time nowadays.
My aunt was walking down a sidewalk in Denver one time in January. She slipped, fell and broke her wrist. The reason she fell was because a local business had turned on a spicket up the street and water had run over the sidewalk in that area and frozen into a solid sheet of ice.
She found there to be no reason to sue anyone, the thought never even crossed her mind BUT the insurance company told her if she wanted coverage she had to...could be a simlar situation....
Insurance company hears a guy hits REBAR (i know its the most commonly used course marker material for the plastic tubes...they dont know that) in a closed course DH race of COURSE they're going to want to point the finger! In case you haven't been following the news insurance companies aren't exactly having a nice time nowadays.
There's also the possibility that the insurance company paid out, and the company is actually the party suing Big Bear...correct? I'm not very insurance-savvy.
I think the main thing is that we can all jump to conclusions and it means squat.
I think the main thing is that we can all jump to conclusions and it means squat.
well in this country its generally trees and the like so that doesn't really help. Plastic tubing forced into the ground is something i've seen out in france that works well.MikeD said:
Good point that the insurance company might be behind the court case in one way, shape or form
All I have to say is go check out a DH race in Europe...some of them make TBB look like NASA.
Euro Promoters...ever been sued?
No
Didnt think so.
There is no difference between a god damn ambulance chasing attorney and a convicted serial killer.
Just when I quit the sport and was gonna be able to go up to BB and just ride for fun, this happens.
Cest La Vie
Euro Promoters...ever been sued?
No
Didnt think so.
There is no difference between a god damn ambulance chasing attorney and a convicted serial killer.
Just when I quit the sport and was gonna be able to go up to BB and just ride for fun, this happens.
Cest La Vie
Some of our courses do have rebar that's about 1/2 the height of the poles, about 2'. I can see how that, or any rebar, would be a b**ch to land on and could cause some serious damage, but so can alot of things on any dh course.MikeD said:
What cracks me up is that the courses at Big Bear are traditionally like 8 to 10 feet wide. So this riders inability to stay on course is someone elses fault?? It sucks that the guy got hurt but give me a break. I've clipped my pedal on the rebar markers before. Was it TBB fault?? No it was my fault for not staying on course. If the tape was tied to a tree and he hit a tree would he still be sueing?? Where is the line drawn??
I do think that is a possibility. All states work differently in regards to insurance. I think there is also the possibility that the insurance company of the injured party might sure the insurance company of the "so called offender" to recoup the costs paid out to their client.MikeD said:
http://www.teambigbear.com/
Dont know if the link had been posted...sorry for a repeat if so.
This is such a f-ing joke
Dont know if the link had been posted...sorry for a repeat if so.
This is such a f-ing joke
even i'm raging at that and i'd probably never even get a chance to ride there anyway!!
They'll be loading XC bikes? Sheesh, what are they going to do, put a gram scale at the bottom and disallow the wearing of armor other than helmets?? How do you tell an XC bike from a DH bike?
Oh, wait, I get it...rental bikes only, I bet. No baggy shorts allowed.
Maybe someplace better than BB will open up to biking. I doubt it.
MD
Oh, wait, I get it...rental bikes only, I bet. No baggy shorts allowed.
Maybe someplace better than BB will open up to biking. I doubt it.
MD
If only I had a law degree. So one other thing I was thinking, if he clipped a pedal on a course marker, once the plain of your bike passes beyond the tape and beyond a marker enough to run into it, isn't the part (in this case the pedal) technically "off course?"MikeD said:
That's a huge reach, but so far from what I've heard this lawsuit is crap.
Wow. So it is true.stiksandstones said:
I will pour my 40 out on a fireroad this weekend in honor of Big Bear.
That's just stupid.
Even if I got jacked at a race, and it was the mountain's fault, there is
no way I could bring myself to sue. I just could not do that to all the other riders. Sad day for sure.
i totally agree w/ you, but when you are paralyzed your thinking might change a bit. not saying i agree with it, but i can possibly understand the motive.DH Diva said:
R
Rabie
Guest
Don't be so down. We can still go rip darkside on our hardtails, while Pegboy sits at home in Bellflower. Serves him right. And I look good in lycra.MikeD said:
I may understand better than you think. I know it's not paralysis, but I broke both my hands last year on a nationals course and one of them is most likely never going to be functional again. It's pretty much a useless lump of flesh and bone. Like I said, it sucks that this guys is so badly hurt, but is it really TBB fault?narlus said:
Maybe they'll let our bikes up if we get them powdercoated in Rootbeer. Then they'll be freeride bikes, not DH bikes... You think Edgy's bike will be let on?Rabie said:
Damn, I'm really glad I didn't succumb to the desire to get a real DH bike this year...it would suck if the nearest chair access was Mammoth. Oh, wait, that's the way it's going to be...grrrrr.
MD
If BB dug a pit in the course, covered it with sticks and grass, and lined the inside with razor sharp spikes, then I could see a lawsuit. Otherwise riders should know they assume the risk when participating in a dangerous sport. Major blow to the MTB scene.
That's it!!! I'm becoming a WHISTLERITIZEN!!!!
Snow Summits
Closure to Downhill Mountain Bikes
Starting with the 2005 mountain bike season, Snow Summit Mountain Resort in Big Bear Lake, CA. will no longer allow the hosting of Downhill Mountain Bike races, and they will no longer load DH bikes during its summer Sky Chair operation. This is a response to a combination of legal and environmental issues.
Snow Summit is no longer willing to except the liability exposure of DH mountain biking and racing. A major lawsuit has been filed against USA Cycling, Snow Summit, and Team Big Bear on behalf of an injured DH racer. This lawsuit is still pending (it has not been settled nor reached the trial stage).
Along with the liability issue, the US Forest Service has been pressuring Snow Summit and Team Big Bear to address the substantial amount of illegal downhill trails that have developed adjacent to Snow Summits permit area, primarily as a result of its Sky Chair operation. Various methods have been used to inhibit the development and use of these trails including, signage, fencing, and ticket revocation. These attempts have proved futile. The combination of liability exposure and environmental concerns have led to this decision.
Snow Summit will be loading XC bikes)., but it has yet to determine whether or not they will build a limited number of trails on its permit area. Other wise XC riders will be able to take advantage of the roads and trails adjacent to the resort.
Team Big Bear will be allowed to host XC and Super D races at Snow Summit. ). These events will be restricted to a limited access to the resort (start/finish areas, and a limited amount of service roads. But we will still have access to the National Forest roads and trails that we have been using for races for years, including Falline, Plantation and all of the FS roads.
Team Big Bear will continue hosting the scheduled NORBA National Mountain bike race but obviously it will be limited to expanded XC and Super D racing. We are currently planning to sustain most of our calendar events including the Cal State Series, including DH races at other venues which we hope to expand. More information will available on our website www.teambigbear.com as events and venues develop.
NOTE: We here at Team Big Bear are extremely disappointed at the loss of DH racing at Snow Summit, but fully appreciate Snow Summits decision in light of our litigious society. We would like to thank Snow Summit for its heartfelt decision that will have dramatic effect on the community of Big Bear Lake, and long ranging ramifications in our mountain bike community. We will continue to work hard to support mountain bike racing, including downhill, and we would also like to those athletes who have supported racing.
Tom Spiegel
Patrick Follett
Closure to Downhill Mountain Bikes
Starting with the 2005 mountain bike season, Snow Summit Mountain Resort in Big Bear Lake, CA. will no longer allow the hosting of Downhill Mountain Bike races, and they will no longer load DH bikes during its summer Sky Chair operation. This is a response to a combination of legal and environmental issues.
Snow Summit is no longer willing to except the liability exposure of DH mountain biking and racing. A major lawsuit has been filed against USA Cycling, Snow Summit, and Team Big Bear on behalf of an injured DH racer. This lawsuit is still pending (it has not been settled nor reached the trial stage).
Along with the liability issue, the US Forest Service has been pressuring Snow Summit and Team Big Bear to address the substantial amount of illegal downhill trails that have developed adjacent to Snow Summits permit area, primarily as a result of its Sky Chair operation. Various methods have been used to inhibit the development and use of these trails including, signage, fencing, and ticket revocation. These attempts have proved futile. The combination of liability exposure and environmental concerns have led to this decision.
Snow Summit will be loading XC bikes)., but it has yet to determine whether or not they will build a limited number of trails on its permit area. Other wise XC riders will be able to take advantage of the roads and trails adjacent to the resort.
Team Big Bear will be allowed to host XC and Super D races at Snow Summit. ). These events will be restricted to a limited access to the resort (start/finish areas, and a limited amount of service roads. But we will still have access to the National Forest roads and trails that we have been using for races for years, including Falline, Plantation and all of the FS roads.
Team Big Bear will continue hosting the scheduled NORBA National Mountain bike race but obviously it will be limited to expanded XC and Super D racing. We are currently planning to sustain most of our calendar events including the Cal State Series, including DH races at other venues which we hope to expand. More information will available on our website www.teambigbear.com as events and venues develop.
NOTE: We here at Team Big Bear are extremely disappointed at the loss of DH racing at Snow Summit, but fully appreciate Snow Summits decision in light of our litigious society. We would like to thank Snow Summit for its heartfelt decision that will have dramatic effect on the community of Big Bear Lake, and long ranging ramifications in our mountain bike community. We will continue to work hard to support mountain bike racing, including downhill, and we would also like to those athletes who have supported racing.
Tom Spiegel
Patrick Follett
ditto...if lawsuits can get BB closed (in my mind BB is kidda like a historical mountain for DHing) then I fear the worst. What other report will get closed nextRidemonkey said:
I'm mad :angry: and sad
all that the same time...
it will be interesting to see what criteria big bear uses for "xc" bikes. maybe there will be a lot zoke 66s sold in socal.
The idea of moving to Vancouver had left my thoughts...this brought it back...Freak said:
you didn't stay in new jersey for that long, eh?Freak said:
Could this be a marketing plot?narlus said:
narlus said:
Looking this guys web site, he was a very active person. Wake boarding, snow boarding, and mountain biking... maybe it's also the rage he feels inside about never being able to do any of those again. He may be lashing out with the mind set that if he can't do, no one else will!
I feel bad for the guy - There is a LOT of hardware in him for a single level. He's got a plate up front that patients generally complain about because when you swallow, you can feel the plate. That is possible one of the only sensations he has left...
It sucks that BB is gone, and the lawsuit and insurance issues are BS! But we are self defeating group... we do things that will hurt us and break our stuff, and then get mad when it happens. We ride off the approved trails and then get pissed when an area gets shut down. We'll spend thousands of dollars on equipment, but we have no pull in the community b/c no one will put up the $$$ to fight for us. Well spend hours building on trails, but rarely show up to land management meeting until its too late... if we dont ALL change out behavior (which only some have), were going to have to choose a new sport.
They know well enough what people are going to do with 'real' bikes. And any real XC riders will ride up the mtn anyhow. The lift will serve the family/rental crowd only...and I could truly forsee them making it rental-bikes (crappy Warps and such) only, for 'safety reasons.' They can claim they're the only bikes they've personally inspected to reduce liability, and that'll keep any real riders off the mountain.
MD
MD
No, the company moved me back to Seattle....narlus said:
We were only there for like 2 months... But Velocity Girl and I at least got to ride Diablo. 
I'm gonna go with the theory that either the dude's insurance company is suing, or they have told him they will not cover his injuries unless he sues.
A few years ago a boat that I was part owner of was hit by another boat. I wasn't there and I hadn't given permission for my boat to be used. Didn't matter as far as liability goes. One of the people on the boat got injured pretty bad. His insurance company directed him to sue pretty much everyone who could possibly be considered liable. Luckily he was a cool guy and didn't sue me. But his medical bills were only like 20 grand. I bet if they were a couple million, my ass would have been sued.
A few years ago a boat that I was part owner of was hit by another boat. I wasn't there and I hadn't given permission for my boat to be used. Didn't matter as far as liability goes. One of the people on the boat got injured pretty bad. His insurance company directed him to sue pretty much everyone who could possibly be considered liable. Luckily he was a cool guy and didn't sue me. But his medical bills were only like 20 grand. I bet if they were a couple million, my ass would have been sued.
"Along with the liability issue, the US Forest Service has been pressuring Snow Summit and Team Big Bear to address the substantial amount of illegal downhill trails that have developed adjacent to Snow Summits permit area, primarily as a result of its Sky Chair operation. Various methods have been used to inhibit the development and use of these trails including, signage, fencing, and ticket revocation. These attempts have proved futile."
-T.B.B
Apparently, it's not only a lawsuit causing the closure of our beloved Snow Summit.
-T.B.B
Apparently, it's not only a lawsuit causing the closure of our beloved Snow Summit.
So I thought that TBB was a big part in the NORBA series, if thats the case are we going to expect seeing paper plates marked with directional arrows attatched to trees to mark future race courses?
So if I paint my Spooky up like a rental do you think they'll notice?
Echo, don't get me started on boat collisions. If you were on the registration you got real lucky.
High performance boating is getting shut down out here right and left for the same reasons. People f'in up and not taking responsibility for their actions. They sue the county/state instead and that screws the rest of us.
Echo, don't get me started on boat collisions. If you were on the registration you got real lucky.
High performance boating is getting shut down out here right and left for the same reasons. People f'in up and not taking responsibility for their actions. They sue the county/state instead and that screws the rest of us.
Yes, it's true. The official response has been posted at www.teambigbear.com.
Nancy Harris
www.nobrakes-racing.com
Nancy Harris
www.nobrakes-racing.com
I guess that's all that needed to happen, a catalyst of sorts... Some guy getting hurt and holding the resort responsibleMikeD said:
One of my good friends actually broke his back to a more severe degree at a local riding spot. Is he suing the city? Holding anyone responsible whatsoever? Not at all. He did hint to me that his insurance company, as well as his parents wanted to sue, but he insisted that they take no action. He assumed all responsibility for his own actions. He is in, basically, a full body brace and bound to his bed for the moment, but he maintains hope of one day being able to ride a "4-wheeled" MTB.
-I don't know
ALF
That sucks, especially for the SoCal'ers. Losing any riding spot is terrible, let alone one of the few lift assisted spots.
Nick
Nick
You aren't "encouraged" you know, you are required. It is illegal to ride a bicycle on any sidewalk in Chicago.Curb Hucker said:
we should seriously try to get like mtn. high or some other resort to have DH mountain biking, This is crazy.