[BMXman]

we are self defeating group... we do things that will hurt us and break our stuff, and then get mad when it happens. We ride off the approved trails and then get pissed when an area gets shut down. We'll spend thousands of dollars on equipment, but we have no pull in the community b/c no one will put up the $$$ to fight for us. We’ll spend hours building on trails, but rarely show up to land management meeting until it’s too late... if we don’t ALL change out behavior (which only some have), we’re going to have to choose a new sport.

there it is in a nutshell....I'm glad I only have one more year left in the place....D

 

[Acadian]

there it is in a nutshell....I'm glad I only have one more year left in the place....D

where are you moving D?

 

[BMXman]

where are you moving D?

B.C. Canada.....D

 

[Velocity Girl]

B.C. Canada.....D

I wish I could too! We're still close enough here in Seattle to hit Whistler, but I would love to be that much closer.

 

[Acadian]

First I would need to find a descent job on Vancouver! hummmmmmmmmmmm

 

[narlus]

how does one emigrate to canada? is getting a work visa hard? to move to ireland, my company had to do a lot paperwork (on both the US and Irish sides).

 

[Acadian]

how does one emigrate to canada? is getting a work visa hard? to move to ireland, my company had to do a lot paperwork (on both the US and Irish sides).

Well I'm Canadian...so that's a no brainer.

but for a US citizen to move to Canada - yes it takes a lot of paperwork. not sure how hard it is tho...if you can find a company to sponsor you, I assume it "should" be pretty straight forward? But I'm not sure.

 

[buildyourown]

how does one emigrate to canada? is getting a work visa hard? to move to ireland, my company had to do a lot paperwork (on both the US and Irish sides).

Check the other thread on the DH board about "moving to Vancouver"
There is several links in there about work permits and emigrating to Ca

I think it is easier than it used to be. You need some money in your bank account and some good job skills/college degree

 

[bpatterson6]

I'm gonna have to agree...
I get agitated just reading about frivolous lawsuits...
Even if the guy broke his darn neck and was paralized while Riding Dh and it was of something on the mountain like Rebar or whatever...He shouldn't be able to Sue. PERIOD. He assumes ANY and ALL reponsibility for Risk of injury the second he hits the mountain rolling. Crashes Happen.
This is bogus. Asshat.
Ps- You suck. :mumble:

 

[Transcend]

Well, broken back or not, he hit a pole and wrecked. I don't see how this is the mountain's fault. This is the onlyt outstanding lawsuit against Snow Summit and TBB for mountain biking...so it IS this guy 99%.

DH diva destryed her hands, i destroyed my wrist (navicular in 8 pieces) amd will never have full mobolity again (super hard to work a moto throttle, and it gets super tired in a hurry). Yet you don't see either of us suuing.

I did mine in in Yardsale, if ever there wa sa case for a lawsuit there it is...Yardsale in the muck and rain and they didn't reroute it oh, and I tried to jump into the lower section after the left hand corner going full tilt...

oh then i rode the course race day (2 days later) with my wrist in pieces, and taped. Probably coulda suued again for them allowing me to do it. Whatever, i did it myself, how is this anyone else's fault?

What a dick.

 

[stiksandstones]

Well, broken back or not, he hit a pole and wrecked. I don't see how this is the mountain's fault. This is the onlyt outstanding lawsuit against Snow Summit and TBB for mountain biking...so it IS this guy 99%.

DH diva destryed her hands, i destroyed my wrist (navicular in 8 pieces) amd will never have full mobolity again (super hard to work a moto throttle, and it gets super tired in a hurry). Yet you don't see either of us suuing.

I did mine in in Yardsale, if ever there wa sa case for a lawsuit there it is...Yardsale in the muck and rain and they didn't reroute it oh, and I tried to jump into the lower section after the left hand corner going full tilt...

oh then i rode the course race day (2 days later) with my wrist in pieces, and taped. Probably coulda suued again for them allowing me to do it. Whatever, i did it myself, how is this anyone else's fault?

What a dick.

I hope I never have to be the mind of someone paralyzed...I wish anyone with spinal cord injuries recovery as we all do...but when legal crap gets pulled into it-it certainly muddys the water.
Why did this guy have to sue for a result that will hurt an economy of a small town, hurt an entire industry, ruined a business, hurt other businesses, hurt people from enjoying a sport they love, and on and on.

Is this greed?
Anger?
Revenge?
Misguided attempt at healing?

I dont know, I would love to see words from this brian fellow on why he thought it neccesary to cause so much damage to so many???

 

[Orvan]

Bring out the hardtails boys!!

Damn!!!! BB was my summer home this year.

Oh well, I hope another resort in the region would step up and open. Mammoth just ain't that fun!

 

[Ciaran]

:mumble:

I just can't believe this. Everyone has pretty much ranted about everything I would rant about here anyway so I won't waste the space. But... damn!

This isn't the first time SS has been sued. When I broke my leg there this past august I was told by the SS guys that they could not take me down the mountain in their truck because the last guy they did that for sued them for aggrivating his injury. I had to ride down from about 1/3 the way up the mountain with a badly broken leg because of some sue happy ass hat that won't take responsibility for his own actions! :mumble:

And you can bet that with SS getting sued and shut down that NONE of the other local resorts are going to pick up the baton and run with it. They are going to look at this and say, "No way!".

I have a question for those of you that live elsewhere... do your resorts face issues like this? Are your resorts in danger of closing at the first sign of a big lawsuit? Moving outta this place is becoming more and more of a viable option that is looking very attractive these days.

Looks like So Cal is going to be the Land O the Shuttle. Anyone wanna buy a DH9? (j/k)

 

[-BB-]

There is a fine line between personal responsiblity and the mountain being liable.
When I lived in PA, a local mountain opened for bikes. They routed the bike trail over a bridge designed for skiers. The planks of the bridge ran parallel to the direction of traffic and were spaced far enough apart so a tire could get caught. Of course a biker hit this bridge at high speed and went flying over the bars.

My point is, there IS a possible scenario in which the mountain should be held responsible.

Or if the bridge COLLAPSED... then I could understand.

 

[dhtahoe]

Our sport is falling apart at the seams.

 

[Frankenschwinn]

our local club and City is being sued by some weekend warrior XC rider when he could not stay on a 4ft wide bridge. The club through an agreement with the city maintains the local trails so they are opened up to the liability.

Lawsuits suck...

 

[dhjill]

I hope I never have to be the mind of someone paralyzed...I wish anyone with spinal cord injuries recovery as we all do...but when legal crap gets pulled into it-it certainly muddys the water.
Why did this guy have to sue for a result that will hurt an economy of a small town, hurt an entire industry, ruined a business, hurt other businesses, hurt people from enjoying a sport they love, and on and on.

Is this greed?
Anger?
Revenge?
Misguided attempt at healing?

I dont know, I would love to see words from this brian fellow on why he thought it neccesary to cause so much damage to so many???

Yeah, what he said.

I think it's all of the above, Stik, but I tend to lean on greed and anger. It just blows because I think all of us have had injuries that have been a direct result from DH racing...have any of us sued? No, because most of us have a clue but unfortunately it just takes one idiot to ruin it for everyone. It seems that's always the way it works. :eviltongu

And yeah, you are totally right about ruining an industry. I'd say the majority of our DH-type consumers are in the SoCal region...you think this it going to impact our DH/freeride/all-mountain bike sales? Hell ya, it will. And I can't even imagine what it will do to the BB economy.

Bottom line is if you aren't willing to assume some of the risks this sport throws at ya, then get the hell off the mountain.

In the meantime, I gotta go work on my lawsuit against Lake Elsinore MX park and Yamaha for my busted-up ankle I received earlier this year on the moto. You know, I could use a little Xmas cash.

 

[Zark]

All right I have some more info from an anonymous source.

The lawsuit is $25 million stemming back from an incident a year and a half ago.
Snow Summit has their own lawyers now, they don't thing NORBA's Lawyers can hack, it's gonna cost SS hundreds of thousands any way you slice it.

TBB is out of DH race promotion entirely until this is settled.

THey are putting a 35 pound weight limit on bikes next season, looks like I have to trim 2 pounds off my SGS, thats gonna be hard to do.

If this case is won by this guy Brian it very well could spell the death of DH racing and riding. Other resorts will watch this closely as well as promoters. The liability will be undeniable and too much to avoid. Without resorts to ride DH bikes and growing trail issues on multi use trails, bike companies might stop making DH models.

 

[Mustang85]

35lbs eh? Looks like BCD will be getting lots of business...I think i can get my vp free down below 35...so where can i buy helium?

 

[Slugman]

THey are putting a 35 pound weight limit on bikes next season, looks like I have to trim 2 pounds off my SGS, thats gonna be hard to do.

Cool I can still bring my hardtail!

 

[bikeninja]

Pretty much everything has been said. Big Bear was the only National that i raced and actually finished. It was so much fun and i was really looking forward to going back this year. a crash in Vermont left me with a broken ankle, healed in time for Mammoth and crashed in practice, unable to race. which reminds me, i clipped a rock w/ my pedal, i bet i could sue them for not moving the rock out of the way! whoopeee!
this is f-ing horrible for Everybody.
I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now.

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

At the very least I'd say we're likely to see some much weaker DH courses in the near future. Still, this should not really be a surprise to anyone, in the last two years two riders have died at or because of injurys incurred at major DH races, the possibility of a lawsuit was always there and everyone was aware of it.

As for brian, if it is indeed him bringing the suit, I am sorry about his injurys and could understand his anger. The website said he had only limited movement in his shoulders and that was it. Imagine spending the rest of your life being able to move your neck and shoulders and thats it, you may feel like you are entitled to something as well. Not saying I agree, just saying I understand. If it is in fact his insurance company suing or making him sue, then he truly has no choice in the matter. Being refused insuance coverage in this matter would mean many hundreds of thousands of dollars just for the initial surgerys and therapy, not to mention a lifetime of other expenses.

 

[nanhar]

Here's a Velo News article that sheds some additional light on the reasons.....

Gravity racing (and riding) to be banned at Big Bear

http://www.velonews.com/race/mtn/articles/7280.0.html

 

[SkullCrack]

i rode Big Bear for the first time this past summer. My girlfriend was doing the Women's Only Weekend put on by TBB. While she was doing that, I decided to try the DH runs. I've been riding XC for years, but this was my first try at DH (yes, I stayed out of the way of all the fast guys). I had a total blast! I couldn't get enough. Looking forward to next summer, I recently placed an order for a DH/FR bike. With the demise of BB, I will probably cancel that order.

I know that BB isn't the only DH location in SoCal, but it's the closest to me. My work schedule would only allow a trip to somewhere like Mammoth or Tahoe once every six weeks at the very most. I don't think I can justify dropping serious money on a bike that will get ridden so little.

I won't pretend to completely understand the emotions that accompany an injury like paralysis, but I would imagine that it could take you to some pretty dark places. It's just unfortunate that his decision will affect so many people. Particularly those whose businesses will be adversely affected.

 

[spookydave]

You know what's so funny about letting the XC guys ride??
Ask anyone who rides there. On any given weekend and much worse on holidays you can see some xc guys going down Summit or Westridge and are way out of their league. They have their lil helmet on and are wearing their grape smugglers. I've seen more then one of those guys get really jacked up too. At lest they didn't sue!
I guess what I'm getting at is ...... Well, I won't go there.

 

[DH Diva]

TBB is out of DH race promotion entirely until this is settled.

Does this include the races they manage for NMBS at other mountains?? If thats the case then there goes half the national series.

 

[Pegboy]

Can we sue this Brian guy for causing emotional distress? If not, I'm going after Ridemonkey 'cause thats where I heard it first.

 

[Brian Peterson]

Even though I wasn't a fan of Big Bear, it still sucks to lose it. The closure of one place often leads to others.

As much as it sucks to see someone get hurt, it is a risk we all decide to take anytime we get on our bikes. Wether it is a DH run, a XC ride, or even hitting the bike path, ou can still get hurt. To hold someone else responsible when you decide to voluntarily participate in an activity that you know to be potentially dangerous is just plain dumb.

I wish him the best in his recovery, but his greed sucks.

Brian

 

[Zark]

Does this include the races they manage for NMBS at other mountains?? If thats the case then there goes half the national series.

I think they are just doing timing, not promoting. In that case the races will go on.

 

[Acadian]

I wish him the best in his recovery, but his greed sucks.

Brian

well said...After Saboo's injury there a few years ago + my ex-girlfriend's brother was quadriplegic - I can kinda of understand how hard it is to deal with such injury, but you should be responsible for your own actions.

What I fear mort is what some have already brought up - that if Brian win's, other mountains will close to bike from fear of getting sued!!

 

[narlus]

I know that BB isn't the only DH location in SoCal, but it's the closest to me. My work schedule would only allow a trip to somewhere like Mammoth or Tahoe once every six weeks at the very most. I don't think I can justify dropping serious money on a bike that will get ridden so little.

this is the biggest problem. my wife and i were talking about this other night. in new england, the closest DH operation to boston is either mt snow or attitash, depending on where you are coming from, and they are still more than 2 hours away. and mt snow sucks (haven't been to attitash). the last two years, there has been a (fairly well attended, i think) race series held at two different mountains (ragged, then tenney) but neither ultimately opened the mountain to non-race weekends, like it was hoped.

what is the future of our sport? will people buy 3-5K bikes if they only use them a few times a season? probably not. summers are busy enough; dedicating a few whole weekends to DH is not something i can easily do.

i wonder how england can get a thriving race and riding scene, when new england isn't all that different? any geordies care to share their thoughts?

 

[Orvan]

And yeah, you are totally right about ruining an industry. I'd say the majority of our DH-type consumers are in the SoCal region...you think this it going to impact our DH/freeride/all-mountain bike sales? Hell ya, it will. And I can't even imagine what it will do to the BB economy.

Maybe BB Chamber of Commerce or Business Owners Association, City of Big Bear Lake, etc can file some lawsuit against whoever suing (since everybody is suing) for economical hardship (although they won't have any hard case just yet). Imagine the bedroom tax we all pay when we stay at BB, food tax, etc.

BB should reinstate DH riding but shld ban Pegboy.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

There is a fine line and I do see insurance companies rising the stakes on liability which may end up closing several resorts for the summer. I hope that never happens as I hope I'm never in Brian's shoes never being able to walk again. We are all in charge of our actions, but in certain instances its up to the race promoters/park owners to make the man made stuff as safe as possible.

 

[Heidi]

Holy Crap - I don't live in SoCal anymore, but damn, Snow Summit was where I started my whole racing "career". What a shame...so sad. It won't be the same at Nat's without all you DH'ers.

 

[nanhar]

Hmmmmm, guilty as charged.....

Excerpts from the Velo News article:

"Kun also pointed to the number of illegal trails being built on the mountain, which he said could be almost exclusively pinned on the downhill/freeride set. "

"Guys were just riding everywhere in the woods," said Kun. "The Forest Service was really pissed off with what was going on and it probably wasn't long before they shut it down anyway."

-------------------------------------

Did I ever ride the illegal trails???? Of course, I have to plead the 5th....

If only we lived in another State or Country where the BLM and the Forest Service weren't so rigid. Why does Whistler Bike park exist? What is different in Canada?

What about Ski resorts in other states who still allow riding???? And who have much better trails to boot!!!

BB was close but if that was the only DH riding, I would quit!!!

 

[buildyourown]

This thread is getting pretty long but...

What is the future of lift access riding? I think in the future, you will only see the big players like Whistler. Differences in liability laws aside, whistler can pay out settlements each year (and they do) and still make money cause they have such high traffic. All of thier trails are relatively safe and they have policies in place to change obstacles/features if people get injured on them. This level of trail maintenance takes a lot of money and only the big boys will be able to play.

Yes is sucks that trails will have to be dumbed down but that might be the only compromise available to us.

Keep digging your own local trails and learn to push. We've had a severe shortage of lift acces in the NW for the past 2 years.

 

[Slugman]

What I fear mort is what some have already brought up - that if Brian win's, other mountains will close to bike from fear of getting sued!!

He doesn't even have to win to make a negative impact, this suit alone could be the straw...

 

[Pegboy]

In all seriousness, I am pretty adamently against suing. I have had a few serious injuries that were possibly worthy of law suits, (so I'm told) but passing blame is not one of my traits. Society today lacks accountability in almost every immaginable aspect. If anything can be learned from this, it just shows how a single lawsuit can effect, lives, communities, buiseness, and the future of so many.

 

[Toshi]

what is the future of our sport? will people buy 3-5K bikes if they only use them a few times a season? probably not. summers are busy enough; dedicating a few whole weekends to DH is not something i can easily do.

i wonder how england can get a thriving race and riding scene, when new england isn't all that different? any geordies care to share their thoughts?

this is why i am glad to live in the pac nw, the gateway to bc. i don't think i want to live up in canada, but i definitely want to be close to it.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

^^Blame insurance companies. More often then not, they are telling insuree's that if they get hurt, to recieve benefits, the insurance company will sue to "cover costs". I thought that's what we paid premium's for, so that if we got hurt, they'd pay. Not that they'd make us sue (or make us party to) the owner of the locale where we got hurt.

Ding ding ding. In general, surgical work on or related to the core of the nervous system in your abdomen (aka your spine) is astoundingly expensive. This guy's insurance company may very well have told him straight up that if he didn't sue SS to cover some of his costs, he wouldn't be getting any compensation from them. I don't want this to get into some argument about the medical industry, but if people weren't so busy pushing lawsuits all over the bloody place the spinal surgery wouldn't have been so expensive in the first place.

That aside, it sucks to lose a place to ride but I hope the guy gets better.