[Toshi]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/14/arts/14rich.html?pagewanted=all&8hpib&oref=login

...

There's only one problem with the storyline proclaiming that the country swung to the right on cultural issues in 2004. Like so many other narratives that immediately calcify into our 24/7 media's conventional wisdom, it is fiction. Everything about the election results - and about American culture itself - confirms an inescapable reality: John Kerry's defeat notwithstanding, it's blue America, not red, that is inexorably winning the culture war, and by a landslide. Kerry voters who have been flagellating themselves since Election Day with a vengeance worthy of "The Passion of the Christ" should wake up and smell the Chardonnay.

...

When Robert Novak writes after the election that "the anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, socially conservative agenda is ascendant, and the G.O.P. will not abandon it anytime soon," you have to wonder what drug he is on. The abandonment began at the convention. Sam Brownback, the Kansas senator who champions the religious right, was locked away in an off-camera rally across town from Madison Square Garden. Prime time was bestowed upon the three biggest stars in post-Bush Republican politics: Rudy Giuliani, John McCain and Arnold Schwarzenegger. All are supporters of gay rights and opponents of the same-sex marriage constitutional amendment. Only Mr. McCain calls himself pro-life, and he's never made abortion a cause. None of the three support the Bush administration position on stem-cell research. When the No. 1 "moral values" movie star, Mel Gibson, condemned the Schwarzenegger-endorsed California ballot initiative expanding and financing stem-cell research, the governor and voters crushed him like a girlie-man. The measure carried by 59 percent, which is consistent with national polling on the issue.

a bit of consolation for those offended by the twist in campaigning, where the lowest common denominator nowadays seems to be religion and hatred intertwined.

 

[Silver]

What I thought was interesting is that you didn't see any of the Republicans at the convention who really represent the party.

Where was the creationist? The guy who wants the death penalty for doctors who perfrom abortions? Why not put them up there?

 

[Echo]

What I thought was interesting is that you didn't see any of the Republicans at the convention who really represent the party.

Ahahaha! You really want it both ways, don't you? You want to say that the Republican agenda is evil, but in the next sentence say that no Republicans really represent the party. Which is it? Doesn't it suck when you totally contradict yourself and get busted?

 

[valve bouncer]

Ahahaha! You really want it both ways, don't you? You want to say that the Republican agenda is evil, but in the next sentence say that no Republicans really represent the party. Which is it? Doesn't it suck when you totally contradict yourself and get busted?

Look, up in the sky, is it a bird, is it a plane, NO!! It's the point of Silver's post going way over your head. Now Silver can well and truly fight his own battles but I saw the point of his post being the hypocrisy of the Republicans trotting out their moderates for prime time consumption but in reality embracing the frothers at crunch time. A good strategy as it turned out. Hypocritical, but good politics.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Another lib still smarting from the election..

 

[Silver]

Ahahaha! You really want it both ways, don't you? You want to say that the Republican agenda is evil, but in the next sentence say that no Republicans really represent the party. Which is it? Doesn't it suck when you totally contradict yourself and get busted?

Nope. I'm actually not that far left on economic issues, and the traditional Republican idea of not racking up huge deficits at all times appeals to me (even though it hasn't been put into practice.)

What I said was that the ones that got up on stage at the convention didn't really represent the party. They make a much nicer public face.

 

[Echo]

Do you happen to recall who the Dems were parading around? I suppose a Bruce Springsteen concert at a Kerry rally had some sort of political value?

 

[Silver]

Ted Kenneday and Barack Obama are a lot more indicative of the Democratic party's general sympathies than Arnold and Giuliani are of the Republican party's. That's all I'm trying to say.

The convention, not the rallies...

 

[Toshi]

Do you happen to recall who the Dems were parading around? I suppose a Bruce Springsteen concert at a Kerry rally had some sort of political value?

arguing that the democrats are bad does not make the republicans one bit better.

 

[Echo]

arguing that the democrats are bad does not make the republicans one bit better.

And vice versa.

Obama seems like a stand up dude, hopefully he can create some positive energy before he gets steamrolled.

 

[Toshi]

i agree that the democrats suck too. this was their election to win. in particular i think that kerry's "i'll out-bush bush in iraq" strategy was lame.

 

[Echo]

That and every time there was even a small chance to blame something on Bush, he blew it all out of proportion and made it out to be the biggest travesty in the history of the world. Apparently as a child his parents never read him the story about the boy who cried wolf.

 

[Toshi]

That and every time there was even a small chance to blame something on Bush, he blew it all out of proportion and made it out to be the biggest travesty in the history of the world. Apparently as a child his parents never read him the story about the boy who cried wolf.

yup, agreed. he should have just said "iraq was a mistake. bush's handling of the economy was a mistake" and left it at that. oh well, i'll run my campaign differently ink:

 

[Echo]

I'll vote for ya

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

i want arnold to get his way. me too wants to be president of the USA.... but whatever, am poor and i´ll settle for the peruvian congress....