[evolutionbike]

This goes out to any photographer, amatuer or professional that would be interested in getting their hardwork into a printed publication. They would retain the rights to the photograph and we would only use the photo in the pertaining issue with consent from the photographer. The photographs we will be looking for are obviously bicycle related in nature and or lifestyle and city related. The magazine would be released bi-monthly and printed in full color. The distribution would initially be the East Coast and all photos would recieve photo credit. The magazine would center around bicycle culture and cover areas such as, downhill, freeride, bmx, single speed and fixed not to mention of course street riding and DJ. Anyone who is interested please email me. This is a chance for all of us to do our own thing. We seem to have the web down. What about print? We also encourage any writers or anyone interested in writing to inquire. We look to have the first issue out in about 60 to 90 days and get this the mag is free! paid for by ad-space. So why not let see what you got, and don't be so critical of yourself, we have what it takes all we need is a little "Organization"

Thanks Alot...
evolutionbike@verizon.net

 

[_bp]

I hope this doesn't get taken the wrong way but I just thought I should throw out a little education input.

Will anyone at this organization be getting a salary? Will there be any costs associated with getting it printed, distribution, materials, office space, or any other?

If you can answer yes to any of these, then it seems a little unfair to expect photographers to work pro bono.

And to any photographers thinking about submitting your work think about a few things. For instance: the cost of you equipment; the cost of your time, as this does qualify as work; the cost of transportation; the cost of rent; health insurance; processing and computer costs; food; retirement and any life expense.

And if you are thinking about just submitting to see your name in print and you have another job to offset the costs, then think about the other photographers that depend on solely on photography for their income having to compete with someone who is doing their jobs for free. They can't compete and therefore can't make money.

For a typical magazine job I would charge about $500 for something as simple as a headshot.

The request does stipulate that the photographer retains rights. A big thumbs up for that.

But think seriously about what this request entails. If you value yourself and your work, then you should feel an obligation to ask for something in return for your work.

Sorry to come down on you so hard Evolution, but I think this needs to be said. Requests like this wreck my livelihood.

-bp

 

[NotQuiteJdm]

Nope, I'm pretty sure it's a "for the fun of it" deal which I'm all about. It's good enough that this magazine will be produced for free. I take my camera with me on most ride and although it's not an SLR it's takes great pictures and has alot of manual features.
I think this is a great idea, if you want money out of this then I suggest you stay at home but... since you're an experienced photographer you should know sometimes you've got to take the time to put free work out and who knows some big wig might like what he see's and bring jobs to you.

 

[evolutionbike]

I can understand your point, but i believe my mistake was to not be more clear of our intentions.

The idea for this grew out of the community of riders that we are all a part of. This is to present and showcase work of amatuer photographers just as much as the professional. We are a collective of riders that love biking, we wish to simply join together with other like minded persons and display our photos, thoughts and art in a printed form. This is certainly not intended to take away from the professionals, many publications are hard and daunting to approach for amatuers, this in know way is to exploit them but to give them a chance. This magazine is not out for profit and we have certainly discussed paying these contributors for the hardearned work they intend to supply us. We are just starting this project and all we truely want is to show people that we have a voice and to show the soulful side of mountain biking if we are successful hopefully we will be in a position to pay for contributions. The big mags will always have there place and professional photographers will always have a venue to have work shown and of course to be paid. We put this mag together in our spare time using our creative energy for a product we can be proud of, I don't expect people to work for free, but at the same time if we all made decisions based on the monetary value, where would we be, where would mountain biking be...

 

[_bp]

Evolution:
I completely understand your position. I know there is no money in the mountain bike industry. I really dig your idea and I honestly hope it works out for you. But as far as the where would be be if not for money. We would all consciously be Terry Schivo. I am a photographer because it is immensly gratifying and I think I can make a difference in peoples' lives. It is far from about the money, and my salary would more than prove that. Unfortunatley, in the modern world, money is a reality of subsistence. You ask where would mountain biking be if it were all about the money? Change that to were it would be with no money. It wouldn't be.
I just wanted to put some "things to think about" out there -- for you, but probably more so for the photographers. I just want all cards to be on the table.

And to Notquitjdm's:
"[As] experienced photographer you should know sometimes you've got to take the time to put free work out and who knows some big wig might like what he see's and bring jobs to you."

Being pretty familiar with the industry you are probably just, if not more, likely to find some big wig that would be offended that you are doing his work for free and blacklist you. And in a very small industry, word travels fast. There is a lot of bad things in the industry that don't concern this discussion, but the truth is that there in NO shortage of talent out there.

And from me: no hard feelings to anyone who does what they want to do.

-bp

 

[riderx]

Sorry BP, but there are plenty of publications that don't pay anything for writing or photos. Just pick up the Writer's Digest and take a look. Everyone puts a value on their work and if they want to contribute to a free publication, implying they would be blacklisted is a bunch of crap. Plenty of people build their resume/portfolio like that.

And if you are thinking about just submitting to see your name in print and you have another job to offset the costs, then think about the other photographers that depend on solely on photography for their income having to compete with someone who is doing their jobs for free. They can't compete and therefore can't make money.

This is a bogus arguement. It would only wash if "Organization" was paying for photos and then people started offering their photos for free thereby undercutting the pro photographers. When there was never money offered to begin with, you are "competing" with someone who is offering their services for free.

Nobody is taking bread off of your table. In fact, you should be happy that these people would contribute for free. That means less competition with you for the paying gigs.

 

[_bp]

Come on Dude! You know most of what you wrote is crap.
I think it is very problematic that content providers submit work for nothing more than a byline. The thing is that if nobody did the work for free then publications would have to start paying. I mean the magazine will be paying to have the magazine printed. It isn't a totally free enterprise.

I am not out to make enemies or piss people off. That is why I debated with myself about chiming in for two days. I just think it is important that aspiring professionals hear this. But the fact is that I know how this business works. And I know that there are a lot of aspireing professionals out there. I just want them to know that situations similar to this -- and they are numerous -- hurt their future. This is just advice from someone in the know.

Good luck with the magazine and if you want any editorial advice let me know.

-brian

 

[_bp]

Oh yeah, and the blacklist thing might be a little bit, not entirely, hyperbole. But photo editors value people that value their work.

 

[evolutionbike]

The money generated from selling ad-space would pay for printing and shipping, we would rather produce good work and sacrifice our time then to just sit back and do nothing. If we have the chance, and the money is there I would like nothing more than to pay people for the work they provide. But we have to start somewhere, right now we are trying to simply produce. To change a past detail the magazine will begin quarterly then move to bi-monthly status when shes up and running.

 

[riderx]

Come on Dude! You know most of what you wrote is crap.

Bullshit.

About the only thing you might be able to argue is my statement "you should be happy that these people would contribute for free" and I've even made a case for that statement. Everything else is legit.

The thing is that if nobody did the work for free then publications would have to start paying.

Wrong, a lot of tiny publications simply wouldn't exist. Best I can tell, "Organization" has no profit motive, they just want to produce some "art" and spread the word. I view it more as a co-op.

Getting paid is good, fine and necessary. But people do things for reasons other than profit too. It's not black and white.

 

[RATM]

Where can I pick up this mag when it comes out? I'm guessing my local bike shop.

 

[NotQuiteJdm]

Even if there was money involved I wouldn't be too worried about it because its a community thing. These guys are taking the time to put this together and the least we can do is share with the fellow riders and open up the scene to people that may not be into certain styles of riding or none at all. If I were to be taking job's I could understand about client's complaining about free work but biking is just another hobby of our's so it shouldn't have any negative effect.