[stoney]

I've posted this elsewhere too.

I've spent the last day in a state of sad disbelief as to what occurred on Tuesday. While I was not a fan of any other options for president, there were better options that would likely have done less to harm our country long term. A minority of US voters elected an individual with zero civic experience. A man currently on trial for raping a 13 year-old and has outstanding RICO investigations for fraud and bribery. An individual who has incited a level of public racism, sexism, and xenophobia that has not been seen since before the Civil Rights Movement.

I ask, I demand, that those responsible for this event occurring do but one thing. Take ownership. Take ownership of what results from the next four years. Take ownership of our move towards Christian theocracy. Take ownership of the lost rights of Americans who are not white. Take ownership of any and all civil violence that occurs as result of this decision. Take ownership of backwards progress to protecting our environment. Take ownership of what happens to you retirement accounts. Take ownership of reductions in support for those most needing it. Take ownership for unforseen losses to benefits you depend on like Social Security. Take ownership to the losses of our prestigious global position. Take ownership.

We are to deal with the repercussions of our actions. The actions of a minority.

The reason this event could happen were put in place months ago. When the DNC ignored the Progressive movement that was flowing through our country. The corruption of ignoring voters from the states that carry for Democrats. The corruption of preventing voters from voicing their opinions because they were not what you wanted. You own this.

Hillary Clinton, you own this. Your selfish assumption that the presidency was owed to you. That you could ignore the voice of the people who made it clear that your ascension was not guaranteed or wanted. That your collusion with the DNC existed to squelch the voice of those who did not support you. You own this.

To the #neverhillary people, you take ownership. You own that there were enough of you to prevent the results that we see. Many of you are young and will be dealing with the repercussions for the rest of your lives. You own this.

The protest voters, you own this.

The non-voters, you own this. You, the 50% of eligible voters who did nothing. You own this.

Jill Stein, you own this. Knowing that the repercussions of this election could move the Progressive and Green movements decades backwards, you rallied to take Bernie supporters. Individuals who could have prevented this result from occurring. The only chance you had to impact this election was to split the liberal vote. Congratulations. You own this.

Those who voted for Trump. You own this the most. We deserve to hear you stand up proudly for the decision that you have made. You are the minority in this country who elected our new president. Everything that happens in the next four years, you own. You stand up loudly every day for the next four years from now and take ownership.

Donald Trump, you own this. A majority of this country did not want you to be president. An archaic election process allowed for you to take this presidency. This grave responsibility is not a show. It is not over because you have been elected. You are now responsible for the most powerful and globally important country in the world. What happens over the next four years, you take ownership. You understand that you are not the wanted president by the majority and the responsiblity you now have to the majority who did not elect you. You take ownership for you actions. All of them.

You all own this. You all own this and will own it for the rest of you lives.

 

[N8 v2.0]

So, it's everyone's fault but... whose?


Sorry man, but really...

 

[jimmydean]

 

[stevew]

So, it's everyone's fault but... whose?

not his.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

@stoney while I agree with most of that statement, history has clearly demonstrated that the GOP has blamed the liberals for the mess they created. They will take no responsibility for their actions or those of Trumps.

And if you need an example then look no further than NC governor Pat Mccrory and his infamous bathroom bill. He blames the economic damage caused by repercussions of his bill on Liberals. He actually said, "Liberals made me do it".

The GOP will continue to wreck this country all the while telling their constituents that it's the Democrats who are the problem. And you know that they will believe it because FOX news will say it's so.

 

[stoney]

@stoney while I agree with most of that statement, history has clearly demonstrated that the GOP has blamed the liberals for the mess they created. They will take no responsibility for their actions or those of Trumps.

And if you need an example then look no further than NC governor Pat Mccrory and his infamous bathroom bill. He blames the economic damage caused by repercussions of his bill on Liberals. He actually said, "Liberals made me do it".

The GOP will continue to wreck this country all the while telling their constituents that it's the Democrats who are the problem. And you know that they will believe it because FOX news will say it's so.

Which sadly, is why I state this.

 

[OGRipper]

Hope this made you feel at least a little better.

Surprised Gary Johnson is not on the list. Votes for him made up the difference in several important states. Maybe those are the protest votes you're referring to?

The fact that she won the popular vote is kind of sad on its face but not particularly relevant once you drill down. The campaigns would have been very different if the election was based on the popular vote. And since less than half the people voted in the first place it's hard to say that her winning the popular vote actually represents the decision of a majority of the people.

Sadly, and somewhat ironically, Trump and the GOP did a better job understanding the people's desire for radical change. They helped create that desire, then did a better job harnessing it and manipulating it in their favor. They had an advantage with a Democratic incumbent, but still.

The GOP also apparently did a better job getting people to the polls. The sad lesson is that fear, intimidation, divisiveness, and playing on people insecurities is a better approach than a message of hope, decency, professionalism, and cooperation. And the media didn't help combat voter apathy by letting everyone think Hillary had it in the bag.

The Dems also whiffed on the sickening but increasingly clear fact that some people in this country will simply not vote for a woman, no matter how disgusting the alternative.

Hard as it is to admit, with the benefit of hindsight it looks like an old, white, anti-establish dude, loved by millenials and acceptable to most other democrats, probably had a better chance of carrying the day, particularly with the uneducated, working-class white people we keep hearing made the difference.

I don't want to give up hope for the masses, but this was an undeniable step backwards on so many levels it's hard to be optimistic.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Surprised Gary Johnson is not on the list. Votes for him made up the difference in several important states. Maybe those are the protest votes you're referring to?

I agree with most of what you say, but the Gary Johnson thing is a fallacy. Unless it was the sort of voter who just said "fuck it" and picked a name they didn't even recognize, nobody voting for Johnson was ever going to vote for any Clinton, be it Hillary, Bill, Chelsea, or Socks the cat. Johnson is politically the polar opposite of anything Hillary has ever said or done, maybe even more so than Drumpf.

 

[pnj]

How many non voters would have needed to vote for Trump to not win?

and had those non voters voted, who's to say they would have voted for Clinton?

 

[rideit]

He only won by 6 electoral votes, so not all that many, imo

 

[N8 v2.0]

 

[jonKranked]

View attachment 123886

was just about to post this.

republicans didn't really do anything special.

democrats just fucked up that badly.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Speaking of owning it, I'd like to make the case for the hippie contingent here to do the same. The next four years are liable to be fairly rough for the causes that are generally supported here down in the bowels of PaWN. PLEASE do not, in the words of The Hitch:

Now is the time to make a stand and own the things you might believe in. And not just from the back of a keyboard. I've already been accused of being a "keyboard warrior" in the post election GMT, so even though I like to think that's not true given the amount of money and time I spent on teh Sanders campaign, and the cash I give to a couple of the charities I believe in, in my heart, I believe it's time to double down. America went full retard the other night and damn it, if were going to go down, we might as well go down swinging.

Give money, volunteer, to what ever causes you can support.

The environment is going to take a real hit. Give money to the Sierra Club, EarthJustice, or, near and dear to my heart, The National Park Foundation. The National parks have been neglected and severely underfunded for at least two decades now, please help them.

Social Issues. It might be a pretty rough couple years for minorities and civil rights. If you believe in basic human rights and the dignity of every person, the ACLU is a good start. If you want to maintain the separation of Church and State, the Freedom from Religion Foundation does good work. Mike Pence would see gay rights rolled back decades if he could. Support The Human Rights Campaign. Denver Monkeys, since there are quite a few, might give money or volunteer at the Matthew Sheppard Foundation. The GIll Foundation is a local I support, as is The Citizens Project. I'd encourage a donation to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Obama was terrible on the issue of internet freedom, warrant-less wiretapping, and other general spy-on-the-populace issues, imagine how bad it might get under control of a guy who can barely handle a mean tweet. The EFF has been great at revealing, documenting, and fighting on these issues. Planned Parenthood. They are really going to have it rough. The religious loonies have had it out for them for forever. Birth control, abortion access, women's health in general is in real danger now that the republicans have all three branches. Please help them. Study after study and statistic after statistic show how much better women, and society in general do when women have control over their own health and child rearing choices.

Lastly, you might consider Doctors Without Borders. Not only have they been doing a lot of the work cleaning up the messes we are creating in the middle east, we're liable to need them here when the garbage avalanches start.

 

[Serial Midget]

I approve protest. Silence equates to approval. While I am far from liberal there is nothing about Trump's simplistic promises that I can support. Our entire country was built on immigration. Also slavery... but that is a different issue.

 

[Pesqueeb]

While I am far from liberal there is nothing about Drumpf's simplistic promises that I can support.

Frankly, I don't think this is a left/right issue. I personally know a fair number of solidly republican voters equally appalled by the rise of Drumpf. People that I've disagreed with politically for as long as I've know them. I understand why they vote the way they do. I understand why they voted for Bush, McCain, Romney, etc. I disagree, but I understand it and we all remain on speaking terms. This Trump thing however, is beyond the pale.

 

[jimmydean]

I think the protests in Portland are misguided. I am putting my effort into supporting the causes I feel strongly about since it looks like our new government won't. Local businesses, food banks, local charities that mean something. We will see how far the lack of government over reach will over reach into our state rights.

 

[jonKranked]

I think the protests in Portland are misguided. I am putting my effort into supporting the causes I feel strongly about since it looks like our new government won't. Local businesses, food banks, local charities that mean something. We will see how far the lack of government over reach will over reach into our state rights.

they're just following trumps own advice... from 4 years ago...

http://bgr.com/2016/11/09/trump-twitter-obama-election/

 

[Jm_]

was just about to post this.

republicans didn't really do anything special.

democrats just fucked up that badly.

When they got endorsements from all the hollywood actors and had the musicians playing at their parties.

When they brought out ole Algore to speak about Hillary.

I can think at least half a dozen things like this that are just so fucking face-palm. It's like they were playing by some stupid rule-book that says you have to do all these dumb things and shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[stevew]

How many non voters would have needed to vote for Trump to not win?

and had those non voters voted, who's to say they would have voted for Clinton?

the million or so african americans who did not show up for hillary....he also did better with hispanics than expected....did better with women than expected...

 

[Nick]

The image N8 posted says it all.
Clinton assumed all Obama voters would be supporting her by default. Um. No.

Also, fuck the 49% that didn't vote. Casting a vote should be mandatory, even if you go to cast a "none of the above" .

 

[StiHacka]

Casting a vote should be mandatory, even if you go to cast a "none of the above" .

Nope. That only happens in North Korea nowadays. It would make it easy for politicians. They need to deserve your vote or your will to vote.

 

[Nick]

Nope. That only happens in North Korea nowadays. It would make it easy for politicians. They need to deserve your vote or your will to vote.

I disagree.
I think if everyone eligible had to participate, they'd be likely to think it through and consider the real pros/cons of the candidates. I said they could opt for "none of the above", if they still can't support either one.

 

[OGRipper]

I agree that the voter turnout was an absolute disgrace, and I really want to believe we'd be having a different conversation if everyone voted.

But now we're talking about forcing people to vote? This really is the new America.

 

[Nick]

I'm kind of surprised that idea is so unreasonable to some of you.

I'd love to hear ideas for increasing voter turnout (aside from finding higher quality candidates)

 

[Toshi]

Increase quality of education. Wait 18 years.

 

[mykel]

I know it is a non-starter....but from teh outside....

Elections should be under federal control.
Standardized voting method whether paper or electronic
Mandatory Audit / paper trail - not just electronic
Standardized polling procedures - ie poll availability
(in my little town of 15K, I have always voted at the same location - and there are a dozen locations - nobody should have to travel hours to vote such as some Native settlements )
Standardized voter enrolment - ie with licence renewal, SSN # etc etc - all eligible should be automatically enrolled.
If you have served your time in debt to society, when you are out and under no further obligations to the state - you should again be allowed to vote - with all rights that have automatically been reconfered.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Other countries have figured it out, I really really don't understand why the US is so progressive in some areas, but just so fucking bass-ackwards in others.

Yous guys help, but damn....

 

[OGRipper]

I'm kind of surprised that idea is so unreasonable to some of you.

I'd love to hear ideas for increasing voter turnout (aside from finding higher quality candidates)

First of all, it's a hypothetical discussion because it will never happen. I don't know precisely what it would entail, but if a party were somehow able to push it through, that party wouuld lose the next election, and the winner would probably repeal it.

In any case, I don't think forcing people to vote is in any way consistent with democracy or that it's the right way to get the desired result. Voting is a right, not an obligation. Some people choose to not participate and that's their right too. I don't agree with it but still, it's a core principle. Freedom of choice, freedom of expression, etc. And forcing people to vote would probably result in a bunch of spiteful, throwaway votes that could be more damaging.

People vote either because they love a candidate or hate/fear the other candidate. Hillary didn't give people enough reason to vote FOR her. Instead, she banked on fear of a Trump presidency being enough. That was enough for me and it should have been more than enough for every other thinking person in the country. Somehow, unbelievably, it wasn't.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I disagree.
I think if everyone eligible had to participate, they'd be likely to think it through and consider the real pros/cons of the candidates.

I think you're dreaming.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Nope. That only happens in North Korea nowadays. It would make it easy for politicians. They need to deserve your vote or your will to vote.

Untrue. It's called compulsory voting and it happens in about a dozen countries, and is on the books but not enforced in almost as many.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting

I disagree.
I think if everyone eligible had to participate, they'd be likely to think it through and consider the real pros/cons of the candidates. I said they could opt for "none of the above", if they still can't support either one.

I agree that the voter turnout was an absolute disgrace, and I really want to believe we'd be having a different conversation if everyone voted.

But now we're talking about forcing people to vote? This really is the new America.

FWIW I agree with Nick. And for the exact reasons it would be fought tooth and nail by the right in this country.
From the Wiki above:

Another study found that the effects of universal turnout in the United States would likely be small in national elections, but that universal turnout could matter in close elections, such as the presidential elections of 2000 and 2004.[22] In the United States, Democrats would most likely fare better under universal voting (as nonvoters are generally more Democratic) but due to the dearth of close races in the United States, universal voting would change "very few election outcomes."[23]

It would have a HUGE effect on off year elections, and would probably move this country significantly left.

 

[StiHacka]

I disagree.
I think if everyone eligible had to participate, they'd be likely to think it through and consider the real pros/cons of the candidates. I said they could opt for "none of the above", if they still can't support either one.

Nope. Low turnout itself is a good indicator of a health of society.

Untrue. It's called compulsory voting and it happens in about a dozen countries, and is on the books but not enforced in almost as many.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting





FWIW I agree with Nick. And for the exact reasons it would be fought tooth and nail by the right in this country.
From the Wiki above:


It would have a HUGE effect on off year elections, and would probably move this country significantly left.

Well the map does not exactly show a handful of states with a great track record of human rights and progressive society. Just because it suits *your* case at this moment does not mean that it can't be abused in ways you'll be crying about in the future. Just watch what Trump does with his executive orders (precedent courtesy of thanks Obama).

I kind of find it ironic that there is so much crying for the sake of liberty and progress in this thread yet the constitution protects your democracy from many ideas expressed here.

 

[Serial Midget]

I am opposed to mandatory voting, crack whores and pimps already have too much on their plate and probably wouldnt bother to become enpowered and informed members of society. I only want input from safer, better drivers with tires that grip in the wet.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Speaking of owning it, I'd like to make the case for the hippie contingent here to do the same. The next four years are liable to be fairly rough for the causes that are generally supported here down in the bowels of PaWN. PLEASE do not, in the words of The Hitch:

Now is the time to make a stand and own the things you might believe in. And not just from the back of a keyboard. I've already been accused of being a "keyboard warrior" in the post election GMT, so even though I like to think that's not true given the amount of money and time I spent on teh Sanders campaign, and the cash I give to a couple of the charities I believe in, in my heart, I believe it's time to double down. America went full retard the other night and damn it, if were going to go down, we might as well go down swinging.

Give money, volunteer, to what ever causes you can support.

The environment is going to take a real hit. Give money to the Sierra Club, EarthJustice, or, near and dear to my heart, The National Park Foundation. The National parks have been neglected and severely underfunded for at least two decades now, please help them.

Social Issues. It might be a pretty rough couple years for minorities and civil rights. If you believe in basic human rights and the dignity of every person, the ACLU is a good start. If you want to maintain the separation of Church and State, the Freedom from Religion Foundation does good work. Mike Pence would see gay rights rolled back decades if he could. Support The Human Rights Campaign. Denver Monkeys, since there are quite a few, might give money or volunteer at the Matthew Sheppard Foundation. The GIll Foundation is a local I support, as is The Citizens Project. I'd encourage a donation to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Obama was terrible on the issue of internet freedom, warrant-less wiretapping, and other general spy-on-the-populace issues, imagine how bad it might get under control of a guy who can barely handle a mean tweet. The EFF has been great at revealing, documenting, and fighting on these issues. Planned Parenthood. They are really going to have it rough. The religious loonies have had it out for them for forever. Birth control, abortion access, women's health in general is in real danger now that the republicans have all three branches. Please help them. Study after study and statistic after statistic show how much better women, and society in general do when women have control over their own health and child rearing choices.

Lastly, you might consider Doctors Without Borders. Not only have they been doing a lot of the work cleaning up the messes we are creating in the middle east, we're liable to need them here when the garbage avalanches start.

Toshi sort of reposted this on FB, and a friend of his brought up an organization I'm embarrassed to admit I'd completely not thought of but is probably more relevant than any of the others I posted earlier, and that is the Southern Poverty Law Center. This is a group dedicated to fighting and tracking, racist and extremest groups through legal means. This may be the most important one of all if you are at all interested in fighting the ugliness that Drumpf has brought out in this country. Come payday this will be my first donation of teh Drumpf presidency.
I also challenge you all, and myself, to contribute to any group, be they any of the listed above, or any other group dedicated to social justice, the environment, or equal rights, for the duration of his presidency. I don't care what amount, money or time, but do what you can to make this douchebag and his ilk have the most difficult 4 years of their lives.

 

[chuffer]

View attachment 123886

Is this real? If so, it makes me want to rage out on non-voters. It also makes me pissed at myself and everyone else who like me thought that their vote alone was enough. Hard lesson learned.

 

[jonKranked]

Untrue. It's called compulsory voting and it happens in about a dozen countries, and is on the books but not enforced in almost as many.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting





FWIW I agree with Nick. And for the exact reasons it would be fought tooth and nail by the right in this country.
From the Wiki above:


It would have a HUGE effect on off year elections, and would probably move this country significantly left.

Let's get automatic voter registration, mail in ballots in every state, and federally mandated time off for voting on the books before we start talking crazy.

 

[jonKranked]

Is this real? If so, it makes me want to rage out on non-voters. It also makes me pissed at myself and everyone else who like me thought that their vote alone was enough. Hard lesson learned.

I have not seen any data contradicting it.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Let's get automatic voter registration, mail in ballots in every state, and federally mandated time off for voting on the books before we start talking crazy.

Fine by me. Several states are doing automatic registration, and mail in ballots got sent to every voter in CO this year. Don't know what's happening in other states but I think the CO and OR models are a good start. I'm highly in favor of implementing whats in Mykels post above.

 

[jonKranked]

Fine by me. Several states are doing automatic registration, and mail in ballots got sent to every voter in CO this year. Don't know what's happening in other states but I think the CO and OR models are a good start. I'm highly in favor of implementing whats in Mykels post above.

Washington apparently has vote by mail as well. All other states do not, only absentee ballots.

 

[jonKranked]

But yes I agree voting at the federal level should be managed federally to ensure consistency.

Also death to gerrymandering.

 

[Toshi]

Washington apparently has vote by mail as well. All other states do not, only absentee ballots.

I get an automatic absentee ballot here in CO. I read that CO had 74% turnout, relevant to this discussion.

 

[jonKranked]

I get an automatic absentee ballot here in CO. I read that CO had 74% turnout, relevant to this discussion.

Key point there is automatic. At least in PA it has to be requested.