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Pinion DH and Enduro/All Mtn frames

Peregrinebikes

Peregrinebikes

Monkey
Dec 9, 2015
113
114
Here are the first photos of the first frame set we have just about done. This particular bike has 8" of rear wheel travel, BB height : 350mm, WB : 1205mm, Reach : 425mm, HT : 64

The front shock mount is swappable. You can put a smaller size shock (7.8 x 2.225) to get 165mm of travel. Remove the DH fork and throw on a 160mm fork, light wheel set and you're good to go. Front chain ring is 30t. Should have plenty of clearance.

A Cane Creek angle set can be used to adjust your head angle either way to your liking.

We have designed up a DH frame set or a an Enduro frame set. Enduro frame set has a HT of 65. The tube set is slightly smaller, 1.5" DT and 1.25" TT. But really you can us it for DH too. The first frame i did had a 1.5" DT and was plenty stiff. Also if you are a lighter rider or don't push it that hard, you don't need the extra weight on the larger diameter tube set.

These are 26" because we like that wheel size. Stronger, lighter, and more agile/nimble.

We are almost done with two of the Enduro 165mm frames sets.

Parking lot test feel from jumping up and down on it, feels excellent. Solid.

IMG_7072.jpg


I guess the other photos file size is too large.

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T

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,480
422
Maybe offer people a percentage off one of your frames in return for creating your branding and paint options? I think that'd make everyone happy.

That actually looks pretty sweet, looking forward to seeing it fully built! If only Brooklyn hadn't gone to shit.
 
allsk8sno

allsk8sno

Turbo Monkey
Jun 6, 2002
1,153
33
Bellingham, WA
Looking good, though I still think you should do 142x12 on the axle.

He posted what his old frame weight was, this is probably similar, and as discussed in another thread, the pinion adds 2 lbs or so, depend on what Drivetrain you had.
 
Peregrinebikes

Peregrinebikes

Monkey
Dec 9, 2015
113
114
Frame weight is actually pretty light (haven't weighed it yet). Lighter than the first run of standard frames we did. Of course not like the carbon frames these days. But you won't worry about cracking it. I know someone who cracked two swing arms and then the main frame on a pretty expensive popular All Mtn carbon frame. They are getting too light and not durable. One crack was from the frame falling over on the trailside

Not going to do 142mm rear. If you are going to buy a frame like this, getting a 150mm rear hub is not a big deal.
 
ZHendo

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
Looks great, but is that shock cradle totally necessary? The flattened tubes look drilled out...which is a bit scary for water exposure when considering a steel frame.
 
Happymtb.fr

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,917
1,271
SWE
Looks good, no need for branding or paint if you ask me! :)

What kind of chainguide or pulley do you use? Any picture of a build with a chain?
 
Peregrinebikes

Peregrinebikes

Monkey
Dec 9, 2015
113
114
What do you mean by shock cradle? Front or rear? The linkage is necessary as it also stabilizes flex that would occur in relation to your main triangle and the swing arm. It can be slimmed down a tad for production.

This is will be my personal frame and test bike, so drilling them out saves weight. For those tubes, you can inject expanding foam, sand flush and paint, or put a sweet decal over them. With steel, one of the best ways to save weight is to drill out material where it is not needed. We all want the weight to be respectable. We know we can't compete with carbon. But when you are looking at price, you can save probably over $1000. We are looking at somewhere around $3300 - $3600 for the frameset and box with cranks and gear spiders. And it comes with enduro max bearings. I am still using a set that is 2 1/2 years old from a first protoype. Threw them in this new frame. (interested to see how long i can make them last) These frames will last a long time under hard riding. Kind of sick of all the expensive disposable junk that doesn't last. The goal is very low maintenance, very low mechanical issues, and lasts under hard riding and most crashes. Just ride (except remember to lube your chain every couple rides.) Not a hater of carbon, but there seems to be a problem of thinning it out, and risking failure under stupid circumstances. You are only going to get so light before you don't have any kind of longevity in the product and don't crash or drop it.

The chain tensioner is the last thing to do on the frame. We are waiting for a part to come in to test out or we will simply design and make our own. Should be done in a few days.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,652
AK
Peregrinebikes said:
Of course not like the carbon frames these days. But you won't worry about cracking it.
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Google "steel mtb frame failure". There are tons of cracked steel frames. I'm not sure where the idea came from that it will "bend", sure, in some severe overload situation, but that kind of force probably means you did something that involves broken bones, regardless of what the frame did. The usual failure mode is an imperfection or under-designed area where a stress riser creates a crack, which propagates with each cycle of the material, usually with a visible crack.
 
Peregrinebikes

Peregrinebikes

Monkey
Dec 9, 2015
113
114
Sandwich said:
looks cool but MAN i wish you would triangulate that swingarm. So many broken BMWs at that point. Plus the flex...
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I don't think triangulating will do much. Look at Commencals newer DH rig. It is essentially the same thing except they created what looks like a triangle. Shock is driven in the same fashion essentially.

As far as flex, not an issue. Maybe if you are a 250lbs trail slayer or something. There is a difference in how we designed the attach point to the old BMW's. We use a tube instead of a flat surface, with the link tabs that wrap the wrap the curvature of the tube. Now issues so far in 3 years. My first frame of 2 1/2 years is still going strong (now it is hanging up). I tried to break that thing, many hard bottom outs. Also I do not know the specs of the materials they were using.

Yes steel can crack, but my point was of some of the examples where a carbon frame cracks IE: falling over on a rock edge, not going to happen really with a metal frame. I know people who have had their carbon frames suprisingly crack in incidents that just wouldn't happend with metal frames. To each there own as far as what they want to deal with
 
Peregrinebikes

Peregrinebikes

Monkey
Dec 9, 2015
113
114
WestCoastHucker said:
designing tubes to look like they are folding in half doesn't seem like a good way to go. looks like an accidental hack job...
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I can see what you mean, but there is not really another way around it with steel especially if you want to keep the weight down. Structurally, nothing to worry about.

I would like to hear if you have another way around it. You have to clear the cranks rotation on the outside as well.
 
Peregrinebikes

Peregrinebikes

Monkey
Dec 9, 2015
113
114
Took her on the first ride this morning. Pinion hit the nail on the head with this box. It is super smooth with no discernable drag. I am sure there is more drag than a CLEAN, INLINE chain and sprocket, but your legs can't feel the difference. This was one thing I contacted several people about before deciding to go with the Pinion. The only downside is weight, but for those who are wanting a gearbox, it is a minor con to the pros you are getting. And for those who would say that the grip shift is a deal breaker, pure stupidity. I have never ridden a serious bike with grip shift. I thought it would be nice to have a trigger shifter. I would say, after one ride, I will have no problem adjusting to it and I think I may like it even better. I set mine up so that my thumb and pointer finger are only slightly gripping the shifter (See photo). I cut my lock on grip down to size with a razor blade. Worked like a charm. No mis-shifts and very easy to shift.
We are using the forged crank arms made from 7075 aluminum. They are light and feel plenty stiff.
SET UP:
I have two 30t narrow wide chain rings front and back. We use an 18t 4130 steel idle gear (lasts a long time). We fabricated our own chain tension device. We chose this route because it is quite a bit lighter than buying an after market chain tensioner. (Like the kind the Zerode G1 and G2 use.)
The gear spread with this setup (1:1 external gearing) feels very similar to a 2x setup. For climbing, it is like having a 22t front and a 36t rear in the lowest gear. Highest gear is similar to a 36t front and an 11t or 10t rear. So a very adequate range. If you wanted more on the low end you can bump up to a 32t externally in the rear and still have top end gearing for descents. On the paticular trail I rode (and on most trails I ride), on the descent, I used gear 10 and 11 in the fastest sections which is like 36t front and 15t,13t rear traditional gearing. So bumping up to a 32t externally on the rear would have me using the 12 gear in the fastest descents I would imagine, and give me a nice low climbing gear (although it is enough as it is, but on some steep climbs, would be nice with the DH setup).
No issues with the chain or shifting of any kind. Chain felt solid, you can get on the pedals as hard as you want when shifting (going from a high to a low gear, you have to ease off for a split second, but on traditional gearing it is kind of like lightly pedaling the chain up onto the gear before you start mashing, so no real difference unless you are a masher shifter), and no fear of skipping after a shift when you are shifting to a higher (smaller) gear going over bumpy terrain. OH YEAH!! NEVER SLIP A PEDAL AGAIN.
I came into a turn a little too hot and ended up overbraking, in the middle of the turn I shifted up to a lower gear, so coming out of the turn I was in the right gear to be able to get on the pedals hard and get back up to speed quickly. I suprised myself that I even had the instinct to do that at this point, (although for the past 3 months I have been looking at everywhere on trails where I would shift if I did not have to pedal), but doing that on a derailluer bike would have been a clunky shift with a possible slight slip at the pedals if you got on them too hard too quickly.
If you come from a moto back ground (I do), YOU WILL LOVE THIS. It is like a motorcycle trasmission on your bike in terms of solid shifts and anytime shifts. Oh, I need to be 3 gears up, BAM, your there and can pedal as hard as you want, Oh I blew that section and need to be two gears up, BAM, get on the gas!
Now for the weight of the box. I took it to my personal motocross style trail to feel it in the air. On the ground, you really do not feel the weight of the box. It is noticable in the air, BUT, because the weight is centered and at the lowest point, it is very comfortable, and easy to adjust to. We also placed the shock in the best place possible for this reason. The bulk of your weight is all central and low.
As a sidenote, from being in the air on this thing, even with a carbon weight frame, you will still feel the same weight of the gearbox when you boost it. It is 5lbs and totally worth it. It is so cool to be able to just shift the bike and you are in gear, no pedaling, no worries about chain skippage or feeling that clunky shift.
The usual drivetrain issues are eliminated with this box. Just lube your chain and go. (Pinion has a pretty good track record with these, so mechanicals with the box are low)
I personally will never go back to a derailluer. They feel like, well total crap compared to this. And then you have the ridiculous 50t rear gears that you have to use a large derailluer for and you lose all your chain tension when you use the smallest gears. That to me, is total nonsense. Adding more weight to the very back of the bike, no thanks.
We have two Enduro versions almost done with 165mm rear wheel travel , smaller tubeset (but still DH worthy), for a couple of guys. Once these are done, we will be posting up our website.

 
E

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
Looks nice as hell, if I could build my own bikes I would build them like you are doing.

But the grip shift might take some convincing, dont see why a proprietary trigger cant be made.
 
Peregrinebikes

Peregrinebikes

Monkey
Dec 9, 2015
113
114
EVIL JN said:
Looks nice as hell, if I could build my own bikes I would build them like you are doing.

But the grip shift might take some convincing, dont see why a proprietary trigger cant be made.
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Thanks, if you are interested in a frameset, email us at peregrinebikes@gmail.com. Website will be going up after we get the other two frames done.

I felt the same way about the grip shift, but it really is actually quite good, especially if you want to dump mulitple gears. Just need to get used to which way to shift. I went up a couple time when i wanted to go down. But after a few more rides it will sink in.
 
no skid marks

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Peregrinebikes said:
Thanks, if you are interested in a frameset, email us at peregrinebikes@gmail.com. Website will be going up after we get the other two frames done.

I felt the same way about the grip shift, but it really is actually quite good, especially if you want to dump mulitple gears. Just need to get used to which way to shift. I went up a couple time when i wanted to go down. But after a few more rides it will sink in.
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You can flip the cables so it shifts the oposite way if you prefer. I run it oposite to most would, back for fast, forward for slow.
Told you so on everything else ;-) and it's not even second nature to you yet. Try shifting in the air next.
Look forward to getting a ride on one of your bikes.
 
Peregrinebikes

Peregrinebikes

Monkey
Dec 9, 2015
113
114
Tis now painted up pretty. Will post up some picks this week. Photo shoot tomorrow. Weighed the frame set with Cane Creek headset, idle gear, chain tensioner, without shock, 9lbs. So very pleased with the weight. So depending on how you build it, 41-44lbs. Not bad for a reliable, very low maintenance frame you can huck DH.

165mm travel "Enduro" frames will come in lighter. Looks like full build should come in around 36lb mark hopefully.
 
E

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
One question, not that it happens all that often but I you manage to bend a crank arm or wear the bb, how do you source a new one?
 
Peregrinebikes

Peregrinebikes

Monkey
Dec 9, 2015
113
114
EVIL JN said:
One question, not that it happens all that often but I you manage to bend a crank arm or wear the bb, how do you source a new one?
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Yes, you would have to order a new crank arm from Pinion. Not a big deal. The BB bearings are sealed in the box and constantly lubed, don't think you will wear one out anytime soon. At this point, for any internal repairs you would need to send the box out to Pinion. I want to work with them in becoming setup to service their needs in the US because I am so impressed with this thing. Obviously they need sales volume to increase. Besides a few small builders of touring bikes and stuff, nobody here makes them, until we did.

Just rode it this morning, man I wish I had this years ago. Some people may baulk at the weight of the box, but you really cannot feel it on the ground. I am now used to it in the air. With it being at the lowest point and centered, even in the air it is very easy to adjust to.

But simply being able to shift whenever and having the chain security, NEVER GOING BACK!

And the range is perfect, and the gear spacing is pretty spot on. No discernable drag over a regular setup. That was one thing I was worried about. I spoke with as many people I could contact over the internet that had one about it before deciding to make the jump. Spoke with Rob from Zerode about it too.

Derailluers are for road bikes. And unless I was racing one of those, I would want a Pinion road bike.

@kidwoo, sorry to hear your not interested, but its ok, you'll being hearing more reviews soon. The price is right yes, simply because I feel the industry is ripping people off for the same old stuff just repackaged and painted differently. No real performance gains, except lighter weight, which may mean it just won't last as long or survive a crash. When mountain bikes cost as much as a motorcross bike, something's wrong.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,340
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
Peregrinebikes said:
@kidwoo, sorry to hear your not interested, but its ok, you'll being hearing more reviews soon. The price is right yes, simply because I feel the industry is ripping people off for the same old stuff just repackaged and painted differently. No real performance gains, except lighter weight, which may mean it just won't last as long or survive a crash. When mountain bikes cost as much as a motorcross bike, something's wrong.
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I knew he'd back out. I told you that dude was sketchy.
 
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