[LeatherFace]

...and I don't mean the alternative rock tour.

I had to write a paper (I know, endless papers) about changes in the family and religion, functionalist and conflict views, blah, blah, blah other sociological crap, and one of my tasks was to find "Family Values" websites and decipher what "family values" meant, what the debate was about, and why was it happening in this point of time in our society.

After seeing many websites, there definitely was a common thread...but I would like to know y'alls view on this first.

 

[Toshi]

My take of "family values" is:

- not cheating on your significant other
- which implies a stable, monogamous relationship, whether marriage, same-sex, or other I don't care
- not being abusive to your kids
- and furthermore being a good parent (not letting the TV raise them, steering them towards healthy activities)
- instilling a healthy sense of morality and judgement into your kids so that they are not unduly affected by the cruft all around in society

What's this common thread that you spotted?

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Toshi
My take of "family values" is:

- not cheating on your significant other
- which implies a stable, monogamous relationship, whether marriage, same-sex, or other I don't care
- not being abusive to your kids
- and furthermore being a good parent (not letting the TV raise them, steering them towards healthy activities)
- instilling a healthy sense of morality and judgement into your kids so that they are not unduly affected by the cruft all around in society

What's this common thread that you spotted?

That every group who claimed that they were for "family values" was Christian, and advocated the institution of the family sanctioned by the Bible. Family=husband, wife, 2.5 kids.

They are concerned about the "homosexual agenda."

Oh, and an interesting article entitled "Why I wouldn't let my kids hang out with Harry Potter."

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


That every group who claimed that they were for "family values" was Christian, and advocated the institution of the family sanctioned by the Bible. Family=husband, wife, 2.5 kids.

They are concerned about the "homosexual agenda."

Oh, and an interesting article entitled "Why I wouldn't let my kids hang out with Harry Potter."

Well, obviously Christian groups would want to have the families governed by the rules laid out in the Bible. It IS sort of the whole measuring rod against which Christians measure themselves.

As far as the homosexual agenda goes, again, their views are governed by the rules laid out in the Bible.

As far as the whole Harry Potter thing goes, I can SORT OF see why they are concerned about it, but on the other hand, I fail to believe that every Christian family has kids that are SO gullible that all of them believe magic exists and will go jumping off of roofs with broomsticks. I was raised Christian, and I got to see movies and such like any other kids.

I think we need to differentiate between the STEREOTYPICAL Christian family/group, and NORMAL Christian families/groups. Not every Christian family out there has Jerry Falwell as its head.

 

[mr_dove]

I think that the homosexual issue is important to family values principles because homosexuality is "anti-family" both by nature and by choice.

By nature because homosexuals cannot have children (nor should they in my opinion).

By choice because many homosexuals demean and look down on heterosexuals and the whole family institution. Homosexuals often refer (condescendingly) to heterosexuals as "breeders" which is a clear insult to the reproductive capacity of heterosexual couples.

Nevertheless, the main reason for dismissing homosexuals and the family is indeed based on the bible. The bible teaches that homosexual acts are "sinful". A family or children raised by such parents would probably be taught that homosexuality is acceptable and christian values do not allow for that. It does not speak to a homosexual's ability to be a good parent. Only the example that they show.

Just to clarify, christians do not (or should not) hate homosexuals (as people). What we hate is homosexuality (the act). The new testament teaches that we hate the sin and NOT the sinner. I find the act of homosexuality repugnant, but I do have homosexual friends. The ones that I know are (mostly) wonderful (as people), and they are great friends. I do NOT hate them because they are homosexuals. I disagree with their decisions and their logic, but they are great people.

Some christians do cross the line between hating the sin and the sinner. That is not acceptable either. More often though, homosexuals take an affront to their lifestyle as an affront to them personally. They see our failure to accept their lifestyle choice as an insult to their person.

please don't flame me for my beliefs nor think less of me as a mountain biker. This IS the political debate board and we are ALL entitled to our opinions, but this is above all RIDEMONKEY and we are all brothers with our bikes.

thanks for listening

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by mr_dove
I think that the homosexual issue is important to family values principles because homosexuality is "anti-family" both by nature and by choice.

By nature because homosexuals cannot have children (nor should they in my opinion).

By choice because many homosexuals demean and look down on heterosexuals and the whole family institution. Homosexuals often refer (condescendingly) to heterosexuals as "breeders" which is a clear insult to the reproductive capacity of heterosexual couples.

My parents couldn't have children, so they adopted. Does that mean that they are anti-family?

And as for reproductive capacity, everyone has that, whether you are straight, gay, or whatever. I have a uterus, therefore I have the capacity to reproduce. And don't you think maybe homosexuals "demean" heterosexuals for other reasons, not just because they can have babies? Hmmm, last time I heard, hate crimes against homosexuals are not committed by fellow homosexuals, but heterosexuals who aren't as open-minded as you my friend.

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by fourgivn1




As far as the homosexual agenda goes, again, their views are governed by the rules laid out in the Bible.

Explain to me this "agenda." Do you mean to tell me that Family Values groups think that homosexuals gather in secret, conspiring to infiltrate every aspect of our society?

So I asked myself, what would this agenda be? And with a few point and clicks, I found it on the Internet. Whew! No wonder the religious rights want to keep us all safe!

THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA
I know that many of you have heard Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and others speak of the "Homosexual Agenda," but no one has ever seen a copy of it. I have finally obtained a copy directly from the Head Homosexual. So we're all up to speed, it follows below:

The Homosexual Agenda:

6:00 am Gym

8:00 am Breakfast

9:00 am Hair appointment

10:00 am Shopping

12:00 PM Brunch

2:00 PM (Here's the really important part)

1) Assume complete control of the US Federal, State and local Governments as well as all other national governments
2) Recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle
3) Destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages
4) Replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of Colombian and Jamaican drug cartels
5) Establish planetary chain of "homo breeding gulags" where over -medicated imprisoned straight women are turned into artificially impregnated baby factories to produce prepubescent love slaves for our devotedly pederastic gay leadership
6) Bulldoze all houses of worship
7) Secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the exclusive use of child pornographers.

2:30 PM Get Forty Winks of Beauty Rest to prevent facial wrinkles from stress of world conquest

4:00 PM Cocktails

6:00 PM Light Dinner

8:00 PM Theater

11:00 PM Bed

 

[fourgivn1]

That is a VERY good point, and one you beat me to pointing out....I can't say I approve of homosexuality, but that is because it is what is in the Bible, and 'unnatural.' However, this doesn't mean I instantly hate anyone who is homosexual. It's just another way they are different from me.

Maybe a better way to put it was reproductive 'ability.' All people have the capacity, but only heterosexual couples have the ability to reproduce using ONLY the 'materials' and such given to them by God (or evolution, whatever you choose to call it).

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by fourgivn1
That is a VERY good point, and one you beat me to pointing out....I can't say I approve of homosexuality, but that is because it is what is in the Bible, and 'unnatural.' However, this doesn't mean I instantly hate anyone who is homosexual. It's just another way they are different from me.

Maybe a better way to put it was reproductive 'ability.' All people have the capacity, but only heterosexual couples have the ability to reproduce using ONLY the 'materials' and such given to them by God (or evolution, whatever you choose to call it).

So what is "natural"? What apes do? Then forcible intercourse (I hesitate to call it rape, but it basically is that) is acceptable? Or is "missionary position" (pun intended ) between two heterosexual, non-lustful partners, with no birth control of course, the only natural act?

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by Toshi

So what is "natural"? What apes do? Then forcible intercourse (I hesitate to call it rape, but it basically is that) is acceptable? Or is "missionary position" (pun intended ) between two heterosexual, non-lustful partners, with no birth control of course, the only natural act?

What does that have to do with non-heterosexual couples being unable to sexually reproduce with only the materials and features inherent in them? I was essentially equating homosexuality with being unnatural because it is opposite to heterosexuality, and because it (homosexuality) goes against the tenets of my belief.

(PLEASE understand this is NOT to be equated with me denouncing homosexuality. Just because I do not agree with it doesn't mean I detest all of those who do not conform to the rules/regulations of what I believe. I'm tired of being beaten. *L*)

I said nowhere that only certain positions are acceptable, and everything else is wrong. Yes, rape is outside the norm, but it can still produce an embryo when it involves a heterosexual 'couple' (I say 'couple' ONLY to signify a man and a woman).

haha..missionary position.

 

[Zonic Man]

I have a friend who thinks two chicks doing it is hot.

 

[Skookum]

Again thrown off the topic. I have seen on television of Apes and Dolphins participating in homosexual sexual acts. Those are natural acts then, we humans merely smarter animals can perform homosexual acts that are natural. Not good for reproduction and against the majority but still natural.
I'll naturally turn the channel to two women on a pornography channel in a heartbeat.

 

[Skookum]

Hey Zonic got any good Jenna Jameson???

 

[Tenaciousle0]

I blame it on sesame street

 

[Zonic Man]

Originally posted by Skookum
Hey Zonic got any good Jenna Jameson???

Those are friends.

Myself, I condemn all who look at such filth as bad, dirty people and pass judgment on them.

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Skookum
Hey Zonic got any good Jenna Jameson???

Ugh...Janine Lundemulder is way hotter!

 

[Tenaciousle0]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


Ugh...Janine Lundemulder is way hotter!

I like Asia Carrera
edit: once again a serious RM discussion has fallen to the porn

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


Explain to me this "agenda." Do you mean to tell me that Family Values groups think that homosexuals gather in secret, conspiring to infiltrate every aspect of our society?

So I asked myself, what would this agenda be? And with a few point and clicks, I found it on the Internet. Whew! No wonder the religious rights want to keep us all safe!

THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA
I know that many of you have heard Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and others speak of the "Homosexual Agenda," but no one has ever seen a copy of it. I have finally obtained a copy directly from the Head Homosexual. So we're all up to speed, it follows below:

The Homosexual Agenda:

6:00 am Gym

8:00 am Breakfast

9:00 am Hair appointment

10:00 am Shopping

12:00 PM Brunch

2:00 PM (Here's the really important part)

1) Assume complete control of the US Federal, State and local Governments as well as all other national governments
2) Recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle
3) Destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages
4) Replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of Colombian and Jamaican drug cartels
5) Establish planetary chain of "homo breeding gulags" where over -medicated imprisoned straight women are turned into artificially impregnated baby factories to produce prepubescent love slaves for our devotedly pederastic gay leadership
6) Bulldoze all houses of worship
7) Secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the exclusive use of child pornographers.

2:30 PM Get Forty Winks of Beauty Rest to prevent facial wrinkles from stress of world conquest

4:00 PM Cocktails

6:00 PM Light Dinner

8:00 PM Theater

11:00 PM Bed

Oh come on now dear, you have admited on many occasions to deriving joy in "converting" otherwise straight women. The girl I am dating was just invited to what amounts to nothing less than a "recuiting" party.

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Damn True



Oh come on now dear, you have admited on many occasions to deriving joy in "converting" otherwise straight women. The girl I am dating was just invited to what amounts to nothing less than a "recuiting" party.

This "agenda" was meant tougue in cheek, and I found it on the Internet somewhere. A recruiting party, huh? Where?

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


This "agenda" was meant tougue in cheek, and I found it on the Internet somewhere. A recruiting party, huh? Where?

In the city. Where else?


If homosexuality is a product of nature as oppose to nurture (born that way vs choosing it) why would a homosexual hit on someone that they know is hetero?

 

[Tenaciousle0]

Originally posted by Damn True



In the city. Where else?


If homosexuality is a product of nature as oppose to nurture (born that way vs choosing it) why would a homosexual hit on someone that they know is hetero?

exactly

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Damn True



In the city. Where else?


If homosexuality is a product of nature as oppose to nurture (born that way vs choosing it) why would a homosexual hit on someone that they know is hetero?

Well, in all my experience, particularly with the married woman, I have been the one who was pursued. I have never hit on a straight woman--they have all come to me. I'm irresistible and a chick magnet...

 

[Tenaciousle0]

Originally posted by LeatherFace

. I'm irresistible and a chick magnet...

Hey sounds like me

 

[Skookum]

If heterosexuality is a product of nature as opposed to nurture, nurture?... uhh yah anyways. Why do heterosexuals continue to worry about homosexuals relationships. And why am i so compelled to watch lesbian sex. And why is this the primary topic of family values. Let's just summarize now shall we? Janine Lundemulder and Jenna Jameson shall lead us all to the promised land where true family values and fragmented threads prosper and flourish!

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


Explain to me this "agenda." Do you mean to tell me that Family Values groups think that homosexuals gather in secret, conspiring to infiltrate every aspect of our society?

So I asked myself, what would this agenda be? And with a few point and clicks, I found it on the Internet. Whew! No wonder the religious rights want to keep us all safe!

THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA
I know that many of you have heard Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and others speak of the "Homosexual Agenda," but no one has ever seen a copy of it. I have finally obtained a copy directly from the Head Homosexual. So we're all up to speed, it follows below:

The Homosexual Agenda:

6:00 am Gym

8:00 am Breakfast

9:00 am Hair appointment

10:00 am Shopping

12:00 PM Brunch

2:00 PM (Here's the really important part)

1) Assume complete control of the US Federal, State and local Governments as well as all other national governments
2) Recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle
3) Destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages
4) Replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of Colombian and Jamaican drug cartels
5) Establish planetary chain of "homo breeding gulags" where over -medicated imprisoned straight women are turned into artificially impregnated baby factories to produce prepubescent love slaves for our devotedly pederastic gay leadership
6) Bulldoze all houses of worship
7) Secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the exclusive use of child pornographers.

2:30 PM Get Forty Winks of Beauty Rest to prevent facial wrinkles from stress of world conquest

4:00 PM Cocktails

6:00 PM Light Dinner

8:00 PM Theater

11:00 PM Bed

why is it that when a christian speaks out against homosexuality they're considered "ignorant" or "intolerant" or any other plethora of PC phrases but if a homosexual is denied enlistment in the military they're considered a "victim"? therein lies your agenda.

 

[Tenaciousle0]

Originally posted by tubby



why is it that when a christian speaks out against homosexuality they're considered "ignorant" or "intolerant" or any other plethora of PC phrases but if a homosexual is denied enlistment in the military they're considered a "victim"? therein lies your agenda.

It's like that for any liberal cause, if you are against radical enviornmentalists they say you want dirty air and dirty water, if you want to cut welfare they say you want to starve people. It's ridiculous

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by Tenaciousle0

It's like that for any liberal cause, if you are against radical enviornmentalists they say you want dirty air and dirty water, if you want to cut welfare they say you want to starve people. It's ridiculous

well said!

"diversity is great, we love everyone (as long as you approve of our perverse ways, if not, then you are a big, bad, stone-aged, intolerant non-enlightened person)"

 

[Tenaciousle0]

Originally posted by tubby


well said!

"diversity is great, we love everyone (as long as you approve of our perverse ways, if not, then you are a big, bad, stone-aged, intolerant non-enlightened person)"

exactly, they're so tolerant, except of people who disagree with them

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by tubby


well said!

"diversity is great, we love everyone (as long as you approve of our perverse ways, if not, then you are a big, bad, stone-aged, intolerant non-enlightened person)"

I'm sure that's what Matthew Sheppard thought right before those big, bad, stone-aged, intolerant non-enlightened people murdered him.

 

[Tenaciousle0]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


I'm sure that's what Matthew Sheppard thought right before those big, bad, stone-aged, intolerant non-enlightened people murdered him.

Don't start that crap, what did that little boy think while he was raped for a week then murdered by two gay men?

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Tenaciousle0

Don't start that crap, what did that little boy think while he was raped for a week then murdered by two gay men?

Hmmmm, do I need to explain to you the difference between being gay and being a pedophile? Because they are NOT the same thing. Matthew Sheppard was murdered because he was gay. The little boy was killed by a child sexual predator. Don't compare apples with oranges.

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


I'm sure that's what Matthew Sheppard thought right before those big, bad, stone-aged, intolerant non-enlightened people murdered him.

so i guess it's ok for everyone to assume the "victim" mentality for what happened to one person.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by tubby



so i guess it's ok for everyone to assume the "victim" mentality for what happened to one person.

"I'm more oppressed"

"No, I'm more oppressed."

Give me a fackin' break. You all have it pretty damn good. Quit your whining and stop hating each other because "he got a bigger piece."

When was the last time a Christian was killed (in the western world) for his or her beliefs. Spend some time with the Hutu and Tutsi, and realize what hate and oppression really is.

 

[LeatherFace]

So back to the original question...why do you think so many "Family Values" groups have popped up in the latter part of the 20th century? Was it Quayle condemning Murphy Brown, or was it going on before that? And is the "American Family" something that needs to be saved, or should it change with the times?

Discuss...

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by LeatherFace
So back to the original question...why do you think so many "Family Values" groups have popped up in the latter part of the 20th century? Was it Quayle condemning Murphy Brown, or was it going on before that? And is the "American Family" something that needs to be saved, or should it change with the times?

Discuss...

I think that it is inevitable that family structures change with the times. Unfortunately, with this change also comes a rash of poorly parented kids, in my uneducated opinion. What's the solution? Better role models as teachers perhaps, to substitute for the missing/never-there-in-the-first-place parents? I don't know.

 

[Zonic Man]

Aren't family values the values that you learn from your family?

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Zonic Man
Aren't family values the values that you learn from your family?

Not when they are in quotation marks: "Family Values"

 

[Ranger]

Servus!

Originally posted by LeatherFace
I'm irresistible and a chick magnet...

A chick magnet! Cool! If we hang out, can I have some of the "second-stringers"? Pleeze!? I'll buy all the beer...

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by Ranger
Servus!



A chick magnet! Cool! If we hang out, can I have some of the "second-stringers"? Pleeze!? I'll buy all the beer...

Sure, you could have my left overs I have to warn you though, I have a certain type...DROP DEAD GORGEOUS!

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by rotecguy


I also think that the most outspoken of these folks are often the least reasonable, and that if everyone in the world lived as they say we should right now, they would find something else that is "corrupting the youth of america."

Like Harry Potter...