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Pledge of Allegiance declared unconstitutional

I Are Baboon

The Full Dopey
Aug 6, 2001
32,384
9,290
MTB New England
Court Declares Pledge Of Allegiance Unconstitutional
2:35 PM EDT,June 26, 2002
By DAVID KRAVETS, The Associated Press

SAN FRANCISCO -- A federal appeals court ruled today that the Pledge of Allegiance is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion and cannot be recited in schools.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals overturned a 1954 act of Congress inserting the phrase “under God” after the words “one nation” in the pledge. The court said the phrase violates the so-called Establishment Clause in the Constitution that requires a separation of church and state.

“A profession that we are a nation `under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation `under Jesus,' a nation `under Vishnu,' a nation `under Zeus,' or a nation `under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion,” Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the three-judge panel.

The court, in the nation's first ruling of its kind, said that when President Eisenhower signed the 1954 legislation, he wrote that “millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty.”

The court noted that the U.S. Supreme Court has said students cannot hold religious invocations at graduations and cannot be compelled to recite the pledge. But when the pledge is recited in a classroom, a student who objects is confronted with an “unacceptable choice between participating and protesting,” the appeals court said.

“Although students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge, the school district is nonetheless conveying a message of state endorsement of a religious belief when it requires public school teachers to recite, and lead the recitation of, the current form of the pledge,” the court said.
 

El Jefe

Dr. Phil Jefe
Nov 26, 2001
793
0
OC in SoCal
So change the pledge to "One nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all." Problem solved on the separation of church and state, and kids can still say the pledge. I'll bet most kids these days don't even know it. That's too bad. (too bad kids don't know the pledge. I agree with separation of church and state)
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
23,190
13,452
directly above the center of the earth
Originally posted by Damn True
What a bunch of poop.

Liberals will turn this country into a mass of passionless lumps who stand for and believe in nothing.
Hey thats BS

I believe in the right to either believe or not believe in the diety of my choice. We call the document that guarantees that right the US Constitution and the bill of rights

part of the role of the government is to protect minorities from the oppression of the majority. It is unconscionable to force people to recite a tome that denigrates their beliefs regardless if the majority disagrees.
 

I Are Baboon

The Full Dopey
Aug 6, 2001
32,384
9,290
MTB New England
Originally posted by eric strt6


Hey thats BS

I believe in the right to either believe or not believe in the diety of my choice. We call the document that guarantees that right the US Constitution and the bill of rights

part of the role of the government is to protect minorities from the oppression of the majority. It is unconscionable to force people to recite a tome that denigrates their beliefs regardless if the majority disagrees.
I agree with that. Hopefully they will ratify the Pledge and not abolish it altogether. It should be used to pledge your allegiance to the USA, not to a god. It'd be a shame to see them eliminate the Pledge entirely.
 
S

Sniper

Guest
why don't we all just live in a bubble, so nobody's feelings ever get hurt again.....
 
Originally posted by El Jefe
So change the pledge to "One nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all." Problem solved on the separation of church and state, and kids can still say the pledge.
BUT Efl Jefe, that would be TOO simple and make TOO much sense.

Instead, lets just all sit around fighting and arguing with each other so that NO one is happy...

Let me start.


I disagree with anything that anyone of you is thinking. :stupid:


:D
 

ibismojo

Monkey
Nov 6, 2001
235
0
San Diego
Originally posted by Damn True
What a bunch of poop.

Liberals will turn this country into a mass of passionless lumps who stand for and believe in nothing.
hmm...so no religion means no passion eh?
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
The right to never be offended is not in the bill of rights.

Maybe I can get the courts to outlaw music, tv shows, and movies that glorify infidelity, promiscuity, drugs, and gang life. That stuff bugs me. Do I also have a right to not be bugged?

Not having the right to let your kid wear a cross around his/her neck is as equal an infringement.
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
23,190
13,452
directly above the center of the earth
Originally posted by Damn True
The right to never be offended is not in the bill of rights.

Maybe I can get the courts to outlaw music, tv shows, and movies that glorify infidelity, promiscuity, drugs, and gang life. That stuff bugs me. Do I also have a right to not be bugged?

Not having the right to let your kid wear a cross around his/her neck is as equal an infringement.
no you can pray to your god, but it is not ok to force someone else to do the same. I don't care how many crosses or bibles you carry thats your business and it's constitutionally protected and so is someones right to do without any of it.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by I Are Baboon


Who mentioned anything about eliminating the Freedom of Religion?
There was a case about a month ago in So-Cal in which the courts decided that it was a breach of the "separation of church and state" to allow a 12 year old girl to wear a cross around her neck because it offended non-christian children in the class.

Same damn thing.
 
M

M.W.

Guest
Originally posted by Damn True
What a bunch of poop.

Liberals will turn this country into a mass of passionless lumps who stand for and believe in nothing.
Yes, as long as it follows MY opinion, then it's good.

If you change something to accomodate people who aren't ME, then you're an idiot...

Yeah. sure.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by eric strt6


no you can pray to your god, but it is not ok to force someone else to do the same. I don't care how many crosses or bibles you carry thats your business and it's constitutionally protected and so is someones right to do without any of it.
But you have to do so quietly so as not to offend anyone. Which by doing so infringes on the tennants of my faith that state I am supposed to preach the good news and carry the light of Jesus into the darkness of the world.

By disallowing that you are preventing freedom of "religion".
 
M

M.W.

Guest
Originally posted by Damn True


There was a case about a month ago in So-Cal in which the courts decided that it was a breach of the "separation of church and state" to allow a 12 year old girl to wear a cross around her neck because it offended non-christian children in the class.

Same damn thing.
Well, I know people who aren't allowed to wear their Bad Religion shirts to school. And other people who've been in trouble for drawing pentagrams on binders and such...
 

ibismojo

Monkey
Nov 6, 2001
235
0
San Diego
Originally posted by Damn True
The right to never be offended is not in the bill of rights.

Maybe I can get the courts to outlaw music, tv shows, and movies that glorify infidelity, promiscuity, drugs, and gang life. That stuff bugs me. Do I also have a right to not be bugged?

Not having the right to let your kid wear a cross around his/her neck is as equal an infringement.
no one's infringing on anyone's right to their belief. by having the god word in the pledge, there are those who feel coerced to say something which they don't believe in. that is unconstitutional. and since you want to appeal to as many, you take the god word out. does that mean god is completely obliterated from the country's patrioism and foundations in which it were founded? of course not. it's still printed on money. it still has a role in the armed forces.
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
23,190
13,452
directly above the center of the earth
Originally posted by Damn True


There was a case about a month ago in So-Cal in which the courts decided that it was a breach of the "separation of church and state" to allow a 12 year old girl to wear a cross around her neck because it offended non-christian children in the class.

Same damn thing.
now thats wrong. Government should not show favoritism but let people wear or not wear , pray or not pray with out interference
 

ibismojo

Monkey
Nov 6, 2001
235
0
San Diego
Originally posted by Damn True


I'm not talking specificly about religion. Moreso the clamping down on your right to say what you believe to be true lest it offend somone.
ahh...the paradox of our country...a country founded on christianity...yet states freedom of religion...yet asks the citizens of our country to pledge an allegiance to a diety which some may not believe in.
 

I Are Baboon

The Full Dopey
Aug 6, 2001
32,384
9,290
MTB New England
Originally posted by Damn True


There was a case about a month ago in So-Cal in which the courts decided that it was a breach of the "separation of church and state" to allow a 12 year old girl to wear a cross around her neck because it offended non-christian children in the class.

Same damn thing.
That is rediculous (the story, that is).

It'll be intersting to see what comes of this. Will kids no longer be allowed to say "Under God" if they so choose? I think they should be allowed to express their belief in their faith, but I don't agree with making everyone pledge allegiance to a god.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by ibismojo


no one's infringing on anyone's right to their belief. by having the god word in the pledge, there are those who feel coerced to say something which they don't believe in. that is unconstitutional. and since you want to appeal to as many, you take the god word out. does that mean god is completely obliterated from the country's patrioism and foundations in which it were founded? of course not. it's still printed on money. it still has a role in the armed forces.
Then if you don't dig God, don't say it. But don't try to stop me from proclaiming what I believe.
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
23,190
13,452
directly above the center of the earth
Originally posted by Damn True


But you have to do so quietly so as not to offend anyone. Which by doing so infringes on the tennants of my faith that state I am supposed to preach the good news and carry the light of Jesus into the darkness of the world.

By disallowing that you are preventing freedom of "religion".
go right ahead but I may tell you where to put it if after asking to be left alone you insist on continuing
 

I Are Baboon

The Full Dopey
Aug 6, 2001
32,384
9,290
MTB New England
Originally posted by M.W.


Yes, as long as it follows MY opinion, then it's good.

If you change something to accomodate people who aren't ME, then you're an idiot...

Yeah. sure.
DT et al should be allowed to express their faith. Don't put words in his mouth like that.
 

ibismojo

Monkey
Nov 6, 2001
235
0
San Diego
Originally posted by Damn True


But you have to do so quietly so as not to offend anyone. Which by doing so infringes on the tennants of my faith that state I am supposed to preach the good news and carry the light of Jesus into the darkness of the world.

By disallowing that you are preventing freedom of "religion".
right...that is your good duty to carry on the light of Jesus...but not the governments. that is what is meant by separation of church and state.
 

ibismojo

Monkey
Nov 6, 2001
235
0
San Diego
Originally posted by Damn True


Then if you don't dig God, don't say it. But don't try to stop me from proclaiming what I believe.
OR

we can take out the word God...and let everyone else who believe in God say God in the allegiance.
 
M

M.W.

Guest
Originally posted by I Are Baboon


DT et al should be allowed to express their faith. Don't put words in his mouth like that.
Others should be allowed to not express a faith that they don't believe in.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by ibismojo


OR

we can take out the word God...and let everyone else who believe in God say God in the allegiance.
If we do that aren't we doing the same thing to the Christians that the court is so pitifully trying to protect the non-Christians from?

("But when the pledge is recited in a classroom, a student who objects is confronted with an “unacceptable choice between participating and protesting,” )

Or is it ok to poop on the Christians?
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by M.W.


Others should be allowed to not express a faith that they don't believe in.
Nobody is making the kids say anything.

If you don't want to go to to church sleep late on Sunday.

If you don't want to listen to Howard Stern don't tune your radio to that station.

If you don't want to say God, then don't.