I'm afraid of clowns and people who dress up in animal costumes (like Mickey Mouse) and the mere idea of Mardi Gras freaks me out
Pledge of Allegiance declared unconstitutional
- Thread starter I Are Baboon
- Start date
Yeah, clowns are creepy. But few things are as scary as the idea of Hillary Clinton as President.
I'm afraid of carnies.
You know, circus people. Big hands. Smell like cabbage.
You know, circus people. Big hands. Smell like cabbage.
Please, will both sides of this mini holy war stop trying to "prove" that they are correct? The Christians clearly believe in something with a strong conviction, and saying that they are irrational or sheep a) isn't making any friends, and b) is insulting. I went to Jesuit school, so most of my high school friends were Catholic. I'm not so presumptuous as to write them all of as being weak minded. Are you? On the other hand, the Christians need to stop inserting religious commentary into every discussion. Maybe that's who you are, but that's still annoying. And the world is not going to end, despite what the Bible may or may not say. That belief is irrational, imo. 
Ari, yes, the 1954 addition of "under God" has been brought up, but your point that it was during the red scare is interesting...
Ari, yes, the 1954 addition of "under God" has been brought up, but your point that it was during the red scare is interesting...
Yeah, I'll have to back you on this one.
Hmm...How about Jesse Camp for president? *LOL*
I love using the word "pontificating"...isn't it a great word? And thanks for sharing your personal view about it Joe...now that you give your side of the story, I can see that you were very fortunate in having two parents who wanted the best for you. Unfortunately, and you have recognized this too, not everyone is as lucky as you have been.Originally posted by Joe Pozer
I don't know why but the word pontificating makes me laugh. I'm going to try and work it into my daily conversations.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I realize that many people who come from impoverished backgrounds and/or come from a single parent households in which the parent can't spend much time with the child have the odds stacked against them.
That being said, I don't fall for the victim mentality that many people use as an excuse to fail in our society. Yes, at this point in my life I have the priviledge to sit here in front of my PC and have a discussion with a friend who lives all the way in Colorado. But that hasn't always been the case in my life. It wasn't until I got to college that I actually got to work on a PC because my parents were too poor to afford one for the home. I did not grow up rich, in fact my parents had to work second jobs as janitors to help make ends meet. Not a very pleasent job which I know first hand since I spent many evenings, including weekends, helping them. When your are in high school the last thing you want to do is spend your weekend picking garbage, sweeping floors, and cleaning bathrooms but it was something we had to do in order to pay the bills and put food on the table. The thing is that my parents didn't sit there and bitch about it nor did I use this as an excuse to fail in school. I didn't complain about how unfair the American system is, instead I took advantage of it, got some grants, went to college, studied my arse off and now I'm in a position where I can live reasonably well and help out my folks.
Now, I will add the fact that I'm very lucky to have two very loving parents which gave everything they had to me and my sister. What they lacked in money they more than made up in love and spending lots of time with us.
But I just think that too many people fall for the victim mentality and prefer to blame society for their failures instead of taking responsability for their own actions.
Anyway, sorry for being so wordy and now I will step off my soapbox before I get pushed off.
I might vote for Camp over Clinton.
Where does he stand on NAFTA?
Even more frightening:
Barbra Boxer or Diane Feinstien with real power. Can you say no more Mt. Bike access to the woods?
Where does he stand on NAFTA?
Even more frightening:
Barbra Boxer or Diane Feinstien with real power. Can you say no more Mt. Bike access to the woods?
I think that this may be in our future though...I would be really surprised if Dubya was elected for a second term. And the democrats don't have any great runners this year (like they really have since, well, since...Kennedy?)
I'm not even sure Jesse Camp can STAND most of the time, much less on any issue...always looks like he's high on something.
I don't know how you feel about NAFTA, but I am really against it...shall we start another thread to discuss this one?
The funny part is that Kennedy's 1960 platform bears a far greater resemblance to a modern Republican platform than anything even remotely considerd Democrat. Yet he is held up by many as the greatest of Democrats.
You are out in "left" (lol, I kill me) field on many things, but I agree with you on this one.Originally posted by LeatherFace
I don't know how you feel about NAFTA, but I am really against it...shall we start another thread to discuss this one?
Another funny thing....today the word 'Democrat' is commonly associated with being on the 'left', pro-choice, anti-Christian, etc. I'm not saying those are always true, but they're sort of stereotypes. Jimmy Carter was a Democrat, yet anyone who knows anything about him knows he was proud to say he was a 'born again' Christian. 
Things that make you go hmm...
Things that make you go hmm...
that mandates the separation of church and state. Religion has had much to do with the creation and development of this nation and it is as ingrained into our collective "American" culture as firearms.
The Establishment Clause, which this judge and others have twisted into a Trojan Horse to attack any acknowledgement of religion, is a constitutional protection against the establishment of a state, i.e. official, religion. There is nothing that says, however, that the two must be kept completely separate, like some sort of chemical elements that explode when combined.
The Pledge says "under God" and does not specify one to be inclusive. If you don't personally believe in God, great! You're not a Founding Father, though. Just don't say those terribly offensive words and go about your day. How pitiful that a small, vocal minority of aggressive atheists who never contributed crap to our nation suddenly have the power to judicially legislate away(in contradiction to the Separation of Powers Clause) something that the majority of Americans not only tolerate, but value.
The Establishment Clause, which this judge and others have twisted into a Trojan Horse to attack any acknowledgement of religion, is a constitutional protection against the establishment of a state, i.e. official, religion. There is nothing that says, however, that the two must be kept completely separate, like some sort of chemical elements that explode when combined.
The Pledge says "under God" and does not specify one to be inclusive. If you don't personally believe in God, great! You're not a Founding Father, though. Just don't say those terribly offensive words and go about your day. How pitiful that a small, vocal minority of aggressive atheists who never contributed crap to our nation suddenly have the power to judicially legislate away(in contradiction to the Separation of Powers Clause) something that the majority of Americans not only tolerate, but value.
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Zonic Man
Guest
Hey! Chalk up another one for True...way to go man!
Wooo hooo! More put downs! Yippee!
(Can't we make fun of people's religions now?)
D
DH40
Guest
In Utah, separation of Church and State = 2 blocks.
Oh, and also, there is no God.
Oh, and also, there is no God.
Z
Zonic Man
Guest
For the record, I love this guy.
I once told a Sister at my church about the bible banging that goes on around Ridemonkey.
She said (regarding the thumpers), "It must suck to be that narrow minded, eh? Just feel sorry for them."
Typical Jed.
Add nothing constructive to the conversation other than your little quips.
Add nothing constructive to the conversation other than your little quips.
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Zonic Man
Guest
Rather that spout a bunch of BS?
Oh, and Mr. Smartypants, I'm the only one who actually addressed the court's findings and the connection between the Constitutionality of the Pledge and God. But you must of been too caught up in your super christian babble to understand that.
See below:
That was posted early after the decision came out yesterday.
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Zonic Man
Guest
The "South" is primarily democrat, and that is where the majority of this country's thumper ideals come from, ironically.Originally posted by fourgivn1
Another funny thing....today the word 'Democrat' is commonly associated with being on the 'left', pro-choice, anti-Christian, etc. I'm not saying those are always true, but they're sort of stereotypes. Jimmy Carter was a Democrat, yet anyone who knows anything about him knows he was proud to say he was a 'born again' Christian.
So the Bible is BS? What do the sisters teach at that church?
My bad. I did read that post and found it interesting and encouraging. I sincerely hope that the 9th circut court of Berkley gets overturned again as you predict.
Holy generalizations batman!
Thumper......that's cute.
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Zonic Man
Guest
Thanks.
And as for generalizations....have you looked at caucus reports from the "southern" states south of the mason dixon? Over the last, say FIFTY years? Primarily democrat in both the House and the Senate. I think it's safe to make that generalization.
Oh yeah, primarily democrat in their state governments as well. Hell, even Florida is primarily democratic....except for everybody's buddy Jeb.
Hey, I came over to this board to avoid some of the flaming that goes on with other boards. Good natured ribbing is always fun, but this thing is neither good-natured, nor fun anymore. ("It's not funny....it's not fun..." hehe, random Howard / Stuttering John / Billy Crystal reference thrown in for kicks)
Atheists and agnostics - you've stated your opinions, thanks. While you're asking to be left alone from the bible thumping, you continually antagonize the situation by throwing in argument point after point. I could see why DT and others may feel like the questioning of the validity of their beliefs has started to become a personal attack. It only antagonizes the situation.
Christians - you've stated your opinions, thanks. If I am correct, the teachings of Christianity do include that of free agency - The right for people to choose reject God and the doctrine and teachings of Christianity. Now that you've stated your position and beliefs, please stop trying to cram it down the mouths of those who don't have the appetite for it. It only antagonizes the situation.
Those of other religions (Taoists, Buddists, Muslims, Jews, Hindu....) - Doesn't seem like there's much coming from this corner, so thanks for not piling on.
This thread really has evolved ( no darwinist reference intended )into a mean-spirited battle. Let's cool it down ok?
(Sorry, I'm not a mod, but this was just getting too much to handle.)
Atheists and agnostics - you've stated your opinions, thanks. While you're asking to be left alone from the bible thumping, you continually antagonize the situation by throwing in argument point after point. I could see why DT and others may feel like the questioning of the validity of their beliefs has started to become a personal attack. It only antagonizes the situation.
Christians - you've stated your opinions, thanks. If I am correct, the teachings of Christianity do include that of free agency - The right for people to choose reject God and the doctrine and teachings of Christianity. Now that you've stated your position and beliefs, please stop trying to cram it down the mouths of those who don't have the appetite for it. It only antagonizes the situation.
Those of other religions (Taoists, Buddists, Muslims, Jews, Hindu....) - Doesn't seem like there's much coming from this corner, so thanks for not piling on.
This thread really has evolved ( no darwinist reference intended
)into a mean-spirited battle. Let's cool it down ok?(Sorry, I'm not a mod, but this was just getting too much to handle.)
I'm not a super Christian. I'm just a regular, run-of-the-mill Christian.
Second that one...great points El JefeOriginally posted by El Jefe
Hey, I came over to this board to avoid some of the flaming that goes on with other boards. Good natured ribbing is always fun, but this thing is neither good-natured, nor fun anymore. ("It's not funny....it's not fun..." hehe, random Howard / Stuttering John / Billy Crystal reference thrown in for kicks)
Atheists and agnostics - you've stated your opinions, thanks. While you're asking to be left alone from the bible thumping, you continually antagonize the situation by throwing in argument point after point. I could see why DT and others may feel like the questioning of the validity of their beliefs has started to become a personal attack. It only antagonizes the situation.
Christians - you've stated your opinions, thanks. If I am correct, the teachings of Christianity do include that of free agency - The right for people to choose reject God and the doctrine and teachings of Christianity. Now that you've stated your position and beliefs, please stop trying to cram it down the mouths of those who don't have the appetite for it. It only antagonizes the situation.
Those of other religions (Taoists, Buddists, Muslims, Jews, Hindu....) - Doesn't seem like there's much coming from this corner, so thanks for not piling on.
This thread really has evolved ( no darwinist reference intended
(Sorry, I'm not a mod, but this was just getting too much to handle.)
Agreed.
We were having an intelligent though heated debate until a few individuals decided to add personal attacks to their arguments. I guess that's what some people do when their rebuttal lacks substance.
I tend to defend when attacked. I let myself get sucked into exactly what they were trying to accomplish. My bad.
We were having an intelligent though heated debate until a few individuals decided to add personal attacks to their arguments. I guess that's what some people do when their rebuttal lacks substance.
I tend to defend when attacked. I let myself get sucked into exactly what they were trying to accomplish. My bad.
Think it's time to "unsubscribe" to this thread and let it die?
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Zonic Man
Guest
LOL. Like what you are doing right there?
LOL. x 2
OK... I don't feel like reding 4 pages of posts to see if this was already stated so here it is anyway.
The pledge was started in the 1800's but...
Did you know that "UNDER GOD" was only added to the pledge in 1954 (by Trueman?) to counter the Athiest bent of the Soviet Union.
Take it how you will... but this is how/when it happened.
The pledge was started in the 1800's but...
Did you know that "UNDER GOD" was only added to the pledge in 1954 (by Trueman?) to counter the Athiest bent of the Soviet Union.
Take it how you will... but this is how/when it happened.
This is very true...on the one hand, us arguing and slandering other people doesn't help us convey our points any easier. On the other hand, the same thing goes for the 'other side.' If you look at my initial long posting in response to dmvprof, although somewhat heated, it wasn't disrespecting him. If you look at his response, you can obviously tell he doesn't think much at all of anything I had to say...it bordered on 'making fun' of what I had to say. When people do that, it just rubs ya the wrong way.
yeah, I think it's time to unsubscribe, for the good of all Monkeys here.
DT, please, please don't stir the pot anymore. "rebuttal lacks substance..." This just begs for a flame response and I'm sure there are folks chomping at the bit.
Though initially this looks like a call for peace from you, you still aren't accepting responsibility for your own antagonistic words. "I let myself get sucked into exactly what they were trying to accomplish." Come on DT, now you're the one sucking people in to flaming.
Please stop.
Hey....
Let's just have a Ridemonkey Religion Board Smackdown and be done with it. I'm going to get my tights and cape.
:
Let's just have a Ridemonkey Religion Board Smackdown and be done with it. I'm going to get my tights and cape.
: 
I personally think this thread turned into an ugly war on page 11, when dmvprof started spewing nasty uncalled for comments about christianity. Most stuff before that were valid points from either sides. But that's just me...
In a 10 round fight, it doesn't really matter who threw the first punch.
Yeah, but we don't like it when we get our ears bit.
ya you're right
"why can't we all just.... GET ALONG?"
"why can't we all just.... GET ALONG?"
Kids shouldnt have to say anything about god.
If they want to wear a cross they should be allowed to.... it doesnt upset anyone thats a load of sh*t. If you want to practice religion knock yourself out... but if you dont want to you shouldnt have to
If they want to wear a cross they should be allowed to.... it doesnt upset anyone thats a load of sh*t. If you want to practice religion knock yourself out... but if you dont want to you shouldnt have to