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police and last weeks critical mass

Fast&Smooth

Monkey
Jun 24, 2002
446
0
Bothell, WA
interesting read

"Bicyclists, sheriff's detectives tangle downtown

By Joe Mullin and Sara Jean Green

Seattle Times staff reporters

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SCOTT COHEN / THE SEATTLE TIMES

UW graduate student Zachary Treisman was arrested on suspicion of assault Friday.


Zachary Treisman didn't have any idea where his Friday evening bike ride would end. That's not unusual, since Critical Mass, the bike demonstration Treisman rode in, starts every month without any planned route or ride leaders.

But Treisman's ride ended the last place he intended — the King County Jail, where he was booked on suspicion of assault.

Treisman, 30, and another rider, 18-year-old Jason Brien, both of Seattle, were arrested by King County sheriff's detectives after Brien blocked a downtown intersection to allow hundreds of bikers to stick together through changing traffic signals.

Critical Mass participants said the detectives, wearing plain clothes and driving an unmarked van, appeared to be motorists with a case of "road rage" over the traffic delay. A King County sheriff's spokesman said the four detectives identified themselves as law-enforcement officers before arresting the men.

Blocking intersections with bikes is a method routinely used to keep riders safe during the monthly demonstration for bike awareness and safety, said Treisman's attorney, David Speikers.

Speikers said his client, a University of Washington graduate student, was trying to defend Brien and didn't know the men were sheriff's detectives until he was on the ground being handcuffed.

"They started the fight as citizens, and they ended the fight as law enforcement," Speikers said. "When you don't have properly attired uniforms and a marked vehicle, and you start doing things like that, it's very easy to assume you are not a police officer."

Deputy Rodney Chinnick, a sheriff's spokesman, said the detectives gave Brien at least three opportunities to move out of the road, used lights and sirens, and clearly identified themselves.

Chinnick said Brien was "intentionally disrupting the flow of traffic" and Treisman assaulted a plain-clothes detective who was arresting Brien.

"If he'd gotten out of the middle of the road, that would've ended it," Chinnick said.

When the first detective got out of the van, Chinnick said, Brien turned and ran into the crowd but was caught by another detective. Treisman came up behind that detective and put him in a choke-hold, Chinnick said.

The Sheriff's Office contends Treisman continued to fight when the other detectives intervened, punching one of them even though they were yelling, "Police, stop resisting."

Treisman said he stopped fighting as soon as the detectives identified themselves.

Both Brien and Treisman were jailed Friday night. Brien was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct and being a minor in possession of alcohol. He was released without bail early Saturday, jail records show. Treisman was booked on suspicion of assault and posted $3,000 bail on Saturday.

Brien could not be reached for comment.

Written statements from several other bike riders concur with Treisman's account, saying the detectives wrestled the men to the ground before identifying themselves as police officers.

Riders also said Seattle police usually interact peacefully with the demonstrators, even when they block intersections.

"Usually they ignore us, or smile and wave," said Joby Lafky, who has been riding with Critical Mass for two years. "Occasionally a police car will ride with us at the back of the group."

Seattle police spokesman Sean Whitcomb, who referred questions about Friday's incident to the Sheriff's Office, said he wasn't aware of any problems, arrests or citations involving demonstrators involved in Critical Mass rides in recent years.

He declined to say how Seattle police typically respond to the monthly bike rides, because the department does not publicly comment on police tactics. But police consider the rides "planned events," Whitcomb said.

"We know that they hold their demonstrations monthly ... and we'll count on another one at the end of the month," he said.
"
 

Bullitrider

Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
577
0
Seattle
Typical Seattle Police crap. Those bikers are lucky they didn't get shot. We average (at least two years ago) about one police shooting/death every other week.
 

iridebikes

Monkey
Jan 31, 2004
960
0
seattle
Typical Seattle Police crap. Those bikers are lucky they didn't get shot. We average (at least two years ago) about one police shooting/death every other week.
wow... that's intense. I never knew about that
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,268
2,800
The bunker at parliament
Comes across to me like the standard, guy felt he was above the law cause it was inconvenient to the cyclists and got nailed for it.
no sympathy for him from me. :nopity:

I belive the critical mass events do more damage than good. :stosh:
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
DaveW said:
Comes across to me like the standard, guy felt he was above the law cause it was inconvenient to the cyclists and got nailed for it.
no sympathy for him from me. :nopity:

I belive the critical mass events do more damage than good. :stosh:
I have one simple rule about my behavior during Critical Mass:

I don't do anything I wouldn't do by myself.

I don't participate in mob mentality actions. I don't start sh*t because I have 100 guys to back me, and I don't commit crimes I would be afraid to if I was alone.
 

Certified Drunk

SVT-Lightning
Feb 17, 2002
842
0
Zippy's Burgers
...and you wonder why people in cars hate cyclists. Some street cyclists are just F'n stupid and its only time before they get squished. It's not going to matter who was at fault when your DEAD! The person with the bigger vehicle will always win.
 

silversurfer

Chimp
Mar 24, 2004
16
0
wet hole
The riders didn't start the physical altercation, and the undercovers did not identify themselves until after they tackled one of the irders and ground his face into the pavement. These guys looked like thugs, and acted like thugs. In everyway they looked like road raging assholes until after they attacked the riders, and then after the fight was underway they yelled that they were "f@cking cops"<---the cops words. They did not siren before the arrests, period.

No matter what you may think of critical mass, these guys did not deserve to get attacked, pummeled, and then arrested. These cops started the fight and did so without identifying themselves, and them finished it by arresting the riders. The issue isn't critmass, it's the cop's behaviour.

Also, these were not SPD, they were King County Sheriffs assigned to Metro Transit to police the bus stops. SPD had nothing to do with it.

b
 

FatalExposure

Monkey
Sep 2, 2005
127
0
Bullitrider said:
Typical Seattle Police crap. Those bikers are lucky they didn't get shot. We average (at least two years ago) about one police shooting/death every other week.
Can you post your source on that information?
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Certified Drunk said:
...and you wonder why people in cars hate cyclists. Some street cyclists are just F'n stupid and its only time before they get squished. It's not going to matter who was at fault when your DEAD! The person with the bigger vehicle will always win.
i think alot of people in cars who are aggresive drivers hate everybody on the road equally.

i don't hate cyclists and i don't think alot of people do either. i don't have stats to back it up, but i'd be willing to bet most car to bike accidents are caused by oblivious drivers.

Sorry CD but i don't see your logic just as i don't see how critical mass is a constructive demonstration as well....

As far as the cops... even if they're guilty of road rage they are untouchable. Would be funny to see them get demoted to street duty on a mt bike though.
 

Snacks

Turbo Monkey
Feb 20, 2003
3,523
0
GO! SEAHAWKS!
If you go to the stranger/blogs there is an eye witness account of what happened. The guy that wrote it was on Dave Ross (710KIRO) this morning discussing it.

His take was they only 'cork' the intersections off to cars for 45 sec. max.

I don't think it's right to block traffic, but from what I understand this KC Sheriffs guys got physical right off the bat without stating who they were or show I.D.
 

Fast&Smooth

Monkey
Jun 24, 2002
446
0
Bothell, WA
Skookum said:
What was his take?
called us illegal trouble making yahoos for running red lights.

really tho, the group of riders is so large that if were to get cut of in the middle at a red light, allowing in vehicles, those cars and drivers would be worse off than they were and be stuck in the center of a slow moving group of riders where there would most likely be more harm and damage done.

it's for everyones own good.


if those cops were in a hurry, they surely could have used their hiddin pop up clear until activated LED technology and siren rather than taking muuch more time to attack and fight people to the ground, doing paper work and court hearings.
 

Fast&Smooth

Monkey
Jun 24, 2002
446
0
Bothell, WA
thesacrifice said:
hippies stink and blocking traffic sucks
i've actually seen more mountain bikers riding in critical mass on their urban street machines and big bikes than i have what anyone would consider hippies. and trust me i hate hippies.

and blocking traffic?? traffic blocks traffic. yeah some bikes may make someone wait at a light longer than they wanted once a month, but they get 1000x that in other day by other drivers. maybe when they see a heard of bikes taking control, they may realize that their 11 mile per gallon suv really isn't nessasary.

so, it's pretty damn obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about, and think that you are cool or something.

i say shut up.
 

Fredzilla

Monkey
Aug 5, 2003
285
0
Seattle
ioscope said:
Seattle police are communist! Fire apartments and seattle police are commynest!
Sorry, not meaning to derail but...... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: my favorite guy at 6th and Pine.

"Seattle police are communissssssssss! Seattle police are communiss!!"

Back on topic though - I read the article in the Stranger, and by all accounts it doesn't sound like the po-po were acting in such a way to "serve and protect." In the article it said the riders helmet was cracked?!? That takes quite a bit of force....

I'm not saying that what he did was right or even legal, but it didn't sound like they needed to go to such an extreme.
 

silversurfer

Chimp
Mar 24, 2004
16
0
wet hole
Yup, was there, and don't remember any hippies. Also, considering that to be a hippy, you'd be in your fifties or sixties right now (cultural movement of the 60's/70's and all).

Seriously though, here's the deal about blocking traffic. Who here actually drives outta downtown during rush hour? If you don't, you have no idea what's going on. Downtown to the U-Dist can take 1/2 hour easily during rush hour. To Everett can take an hour. If Critical Mass rolls by, they will most likely only hold you up for a light cycle. This is around three minutes. What is three minutes added to your 45 minute commute?

By comparison, a single car trying to make a light, and caught in an intersection on Denny or Mercer will also hold you up a light cycle. In otherwords, one jackass on a cellphone will add as much time to your commute as 200 jackass riders. Also, consider that at least every other light cycle, some dude or dudette in a car will repeat the same behavior throughout rush hour, vs. the cyclists that do it once and move on.

I am not posting this to justify critical mass, but to put it into perspective. And yes, this is a realistic scenario. A large part of my job is to collect statistics on the downtown area. We process an insane amount of information to put together the "total picture" of downtown. Critical Mass really does have a small impact on the streets of Seattle even if they become the easy target of ire for drivers who would be stuck in traffic anyhow.

And yes, bicycles are a part of the livability of downtown, and play into the whole picture of future residential development. Much of the goal of city planners right now is to create communities within the city where one can live, work, and shop sustainably, and not have to rely daily on an automobile. Examples of this are the developments in the Denny Triangle, and South Lake Union, and the proposed developments near Pioneer Square. By the way, statistically it is much more dangerous to be a pedestrian than a cyclist in Seattle.

cheers,

b
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
silversurfer said:
Yup, was there, and don't remember any hippies. Also, considering that to be a hippy, you'd be in your fifties or sixties right now (cultural movement of the 60's/70's and all).

Seriously though, here's the deal about blocking traffic. Who here actually drives outta downtown during rush hour? If you don't, you have no idea what's going on. Downtown to the U-Dist can take 1/2 hour easily during rush hour. To Everett can take an hour. If Critical Mass rolls by, they will most likely only hold you up for a light cycle. This is around three minutes. What is three minutes added to your 45 minute commute?

By comparison, a single car trying to make a light, and caught in an intersection on Denny or Mercer will also hold you up a light cycle. In otherwords, one jackass on a cellphone will add as much time to your commute as 200 jackass riders. Also, consider that at least every other light cycle, some dude or dudette in a car will repeat the same behavior throughout rush hour, vs. the cyclists that do it once and move on.

I am not posting this to justify critical mass, but to put it into perspective. And yes, this is a realistic scenario. A large part of my job is to collect statistics on the downtown area. We process an insane amount of information to put together the "total picture" of downtown. Critical Mass really does have a small impact on the streets of Seattle even if they become the easy target of ire for drivers who would be stuck in traffic anyhow.

And yes, bicycles are a part of the livability of downtown, and play into the whole picture of future residential development. Much of the goal of city planners right now is to create communities within the city where one can live, work, and shop sustainably, and not have to rely daily on an automobile. Examples of this are the developments in the Denny Triangle, and South Lake Union, and the proposed developments near Pioneer Square. By the way, statistically it is much more dangerous to be a pedestrian than a cyclist in Seattle.

cheers,

b
With that logic, lets say me and my motorcycle gang did not like waiting in traffic, so we decided to ride on the sidewalk and in bike lanes. Hey pedestrians are talking on the cell phones, and cyclists are going only 10mph, so why should it matter if they got out of our way? I promise me and my gang won't hit anyone.

This is exactly the kind of logic which turns me off to Critical Mass: my anarchy doesn't hurt anyone, so it should be allowed.

I am one of the few people on Ridemonkey that rides in Critical Mass regularly, and I do the big one, San Francisco. I cannot say Critical Mass is a great boon to cycling advocacy. I see the faces of the many angry drivers, and those guys are not saying, "boy bicyclists are great, I need to get me a ride."

I ride in Critical Mass because I think it is fun. Obviously I think flaunting the law and causing trouble is fun, and yes, I would have to say that sitting in traffic for an extra 5 minutes is not going to kill anyone. But I don't use some ham-fisted justification that only a zealot would believe.
 

vibiker

Monkey
May 3, 2004
732
0
Santa Clara / Vashon
thesacrifice said:
It's obvious that YOU have no idea what you are talking about.
....

So its pretty damn obvious that you're a teenager or still haven't left the rebel against mom and dad attitude behind.
So tell us what you really think.:thumb:
 

thesacrifice

Monkey
Aug 4, 2004
451
0
360
I think argueing about **** I really dont care about on the internet is kinda fun :)

my bike is in Olympia and Im in Bellingham....sigh
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
thesacrifice said:
Get it? People have places to be and stuff to do, they dont need activists on bikes making their problems worse. Making someone sit in traffic longer does nothing for the "bike rights" cause.

So its pretty damn obvious that you're a teenager or still haven't left the rebel against mom and dad attitude behind.
That convinced me. Everyone I am going to give away all my bikes because I don't want to inconvience anyone.

If I choose to ride around the city with my friends during rush hour, so be it. I have a right to be on the road. If I go thru a red light, then it is the police's job to enforce the rules (which the police do not).

I will say this, I enjoy riding around the city, whether it is 5 people or 500.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
thesacrifice said:
Mute point, I have nothing against people riding their bikes in cities...

and what do you mean police dont do anything? Thats what this whole thread started about.
In San Francisco, the police escort us and stop any vehicles from ramming into a mass of cyclists...
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,268
2,800
The bunker at parliament
thesacrifice said:
It's obvious that YOU have no idea what you are talking about.

It is the goal of that "organization" to specifically cause traffic to be completely stopped for whatever amount of time . And it's probably the goal of %90 of the people riding in it to just get away with being disorderly (like the guy above suggested.)

And of course traffic causes traffic but that doesn't mean someone getting chemo is going to say **** it and be alright with laying out in the sun.

Get it? People have places to be and stuff to do, they dont need activists on bikes making their problems worse. Making someone sit in traffic longer does nothing for the "bike rights" cause.

As far as the 11mpg SUV arguement....if you were specifically targeting them..ok maybe point might be made...but you aren't...you affect the whole city. And what's necessary for someone isn't for you to decide. And what is the guy driving the SUV going to get out of critical mass? "Honey, sorry I'm late today, a bunch of desperados on bicycles decided I needed to wait an extra couple of stop light rotations before I could come home, that sure makes me sympathetic to their cause, I think I'll sell this thing for a smart car and a bicycle."

So its pretty damn obvious that you're a teenager or still haven't left the rebel against mom and dad attitude behind.

*standing ovation*


Sanjuro, the fact that the cops have to protect you like that only says' to me that your obviously being assholes to a major degree. That sort of behaviour will only make motorists worst/less considerate in subsequent encounters with bicylists on the road, and that increases the risk to all riders out there. :redhot:
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
DaveW said:
*standing ovation*


Sanjuro, the fact that the cops have to protect you like that only says' to me that your obviously being assholes to a major degree. That sort of behaviour will only make motorists worst/less considerate in subsequent encounters with bicylists on the road, and that increases the risk to all riders out there. :redhot:
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Give me a freaking break. Critical Mass has been going in for 14 years in San Francisco. Do you hear about bike lane closures, road rage incidents, arrests? We have one of the strongest bike coalitions in the country due to rider unity, in no small part due to CM.

When Critical Mass was huge, 4000+ cyclists, there was an attempt to crack down (I think in the mid 90's), and it was kinda of mess. But today, during the summer about 1500 cyclists ride, and the only incidents I see are the ones when some aggro driver decides to ignore safety concerns and common sense and hits someone in a meditated action.

The first CM's I attended were in New Haven. During the winter months, there were about 20-40 riders. We stopped at major intersections, and if we blocked a light, it was for only one cycle. It was more friendly and less confrontational.

I would prefer to ride in those circumstances, and in SF I carry myself in a similiar fashion.

I will give you an example of an incident I was involved with during the May CM: we stopped on Haight Street for a few moments, when a motorcycle (????) apparently did not like be delayed or forced to turn his bike around and drive on the next street over. He started revving his engine and forcing his way into the crowd of cyclists.

As he approached me, I jumped off my bike and sat on the top tube, ignoring him. He proceeded to ride up my wheel. I did not react, but other cyclists started to poke him in the helmet. He responded by riding on the sidewalk, which one of my buddies did exactly what I did.

He then rode up my friend's wheel as well. I take no blame for this guy hitting my bike and my friend's bike, as well as threatning the safety of pedestrians on the sidewalk.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
thesacrifice said:
so thats why dirtbikers like to "rut up" capitol forest...revenge on San Franciscan retards

Did you guys get little anarchy boners blocking that motorcyclist?..so much so that you had to poke him on the helmet? It just seems like an oxymoron. Two wheelers blocking the rights of other two wheelers...

what was the point to your post again?
I'm right and you're stupid.
 

biggins

Rump Junkie
May 18, 2003
7,173
9
thesacrifice said:
Mute point, I have nothing against people riding their bikes in cities...

and what do you mean police dont do anything? Thats what this whole thread started about.
better yet what the hell is a "mute" point? is that like a moot point?
 

Bullitrider

Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
577
0
Seattle
FatalExposure said:
Can you post your source on that information?
The only source I have is the police protest I witnessed in the U-district two years ago. They had the pictures of all the victims posted on a fence which were 30 plus people. Funny how there were police all around the protest keeping "order" but there were no news vans or press people. I checked the news later that night and no coverage whatsoever. My guess is if you give bad press to the cops you won't be privy to the next big scoop out of the police department so they keep their mouths shut.