[Floor Tom]

I like 29" wheeled trail bikes and I have had a bunch of them over the last 6 years (SB95, two Enduro 29's and now a Slash), the last DH bike I had was a 27.5 and I thought it rode like shit (it was a Demo 8, current single sided frame) I felt like it had a very small 'sweet spot' for weight distribution, I was either too over the front or not enough weight on the front wheel, I struggled to adjust to the smaller wheels in tighter corners and found it difficult to get it right, I also found that it was held up a lot in the rough stuff, though I think this may well have as much to do with the suspension configuration as the wheel size.
I may never own another DH bike as my trail bike is 90% of the way there, but if I do I think it'll be a 29er. No way I'm shelling out money for one without a decent test ride though.

 

[Udi]

and I thought it rode like shit (it was a Demo 8, current single sided frame) I felt like it had a very small 'sweet spot' for weight distribution, I was either too over the front or not enough weight on the front wheel

Height and frame size?
Because those frames ran absolutely tiny (smaller than the previous model, which wasn't exactly huge).
Not to discount wheel size but that's exactly how a bike with a wheelbase too short feels, and that's exactly what those frames have unless you jump/ed up a size or two from normal.

 

[rockofullr]

I like 29" wheeled trail bikes and I have had a bunch of them over the last 6 years

Height and frame size?

I propose that everyone on this thread should have to state their height (and maybe wingspan) before they say if they like 29ers or not so I can collect data for my "crazy" theory that wheel size, like all other parts of the bike should scale with rider size.

Okay before we get too carried away jumping to conclusions, it's pretty clear neither you nor shelteringsky (while you both make valid and useful points) have actually put any significant time on a 29" DH bike - either from factory or a non-29 bike with corrected geo - which is possible on a rare few options like the 27.5" Gambler (just like the 26" version before it which neatly transitioned to 27.5" while keeping reasonable CS length).

You're right. Enduro bikes are the biggest bikes I've been on for the last few years so I'm extrapolating to DH bikes based on what I've seen. I can't say if 29er DH bikes are better or worse since I haven't ridden any. My goal here is to get people to start thinking about wheel size as part of bike fit, and as a quantity that can be changed to achieve design goals, not as some magic radius that will make everyone faster or slower. My theory is that 29er DH bike will only be better for those whose body type and riding style suit them.

This will be due to additional rotational mass as well as geometry limitations that big wheels introduce. Especially on long travel bikes (DH/enduro) the necessity of moving a bigger wheel through the same path needs more room. If you can show me a small or even medium DH 29er that has the same geo numbers as the corresponding 27.5 bike I'd like to see it. Mostly I'm looking at stack height, wheelbase, trail, chainstay length and head angle.

 

[Cerberus75]

I propose that everyone on this thread should have to state their height (and maybe wingspan) before they say if they like 29ers or not so I can collect data for my "crazy" theory that wheel size, like all other parts of the bike should scale with rider size.



You're right. Enduro bikes are the biggest bikes I've been on for the last few years so I'm extrapolating to DH bikes based on what I've seen. I can't say if 29er DH bikes are better or worse since I haven't ridden any. My goal here is to get people to start thinking about wheel size as part of bike fit, and as a quantity that can be changed to achieve design goals, not as some magic radius that will make everyone faster or slower. My theory is that 29er DH bike will only be better for those whose body type and riding style suit them.

This will be due to additional rotational mass as well as geometry limitations that big wheels introduce. Especially on long travel bikes (DH/enduro) the necessity of moving a bigger wheel through the same path needs more room. If you can show me a small or even medium DH 29er that has the same geo numbers as the corresponding 27.5 bike I'd like to see it. Mostly I'm looking at stack height, wheelbase, trail, chainstay length and head angle.

I'm 5'6 and a T-rex I like 29ers for a trail bike. With my Riot i get a bit of but buzz with 140mm travel. At higher speed and more travel I don't think it would play well. I'd like to see some more mixed wheel bikes or at least some more experiments to see their merit.

 

[Floor Tom]

Height and frame size?
Because those frames ran absolutely tiny (smaller than the previous model, which wasn't exactly huge).
Not to discount wheel size but that's exactly how a bike with a wheelbase too short feels, and that's exactly what those frames have unless you jump/ed up a size or two from normal.

Yes, this was almost certainly the problem. I'm 180cm and bought a large. I think the wheel size did contribute a little as well though.

 

[rockofullr]

I'm 5'6 and a T-rex I like 29ers for a trail bike. With my Riot i get a bit of but buzz with 140mm travel. At higher speed and more travel I don't think it would play well. I'd like to see some more mixed wheel bikes or at least some more experiments to see their merit.

I was racing a mullet bike for @Tantrum Cycles at the Sea Otter DH and I though it was super interesting. Eats up the chunder but makes driving the front wheel through corners a bit harder. I think I'm a bit sensative to stack height in that regard so it may work great for others who like more stack height, @Kanye West

Disclaimer: it was an enduro bike so not actually DH

 

[mykel]

I drive a mullet, 27.5/26 DH bike.
I have zero to very little interest cutting the rear and going full 27.5. IMO full 27.5 is not enough betterer to justify the huge $ outlay. A 29" DH bike, I would check it out, am interested in what it would be like. With the TBI, the less issues I have with chunder the more natural trail I can ride as opposed to groomed. If the 29r smooths things out enough to justify itself, then I have no issues with having to muscle a few more tight corners. Its all about the trade-offs. I'm 6'2", so not too worried about stack height as I already run spacers. I too am among those who is thinking that body composition should have a say in wheelsize.

We match children's bike wheelsizes to their bodysize.
Why for we stop when adult?

The best fit would probably be a combination of frame size and wheelsize, maybe as far as separate front and rear triangles that can be matched to the preferred wheelsize based upon body dimensions. Would def be quite a bit harder on the engineering side, but hey, lets make em work for their pay by doing something more than just coming up with more hub standards.

 

[Cerberus75]

I was racing a mullet bike for @Tantrum Cycles at the Sea Otter DH and I though it was super interesting. Eats up the chunder but makes driving the front wheel through corners a bit harder. I think I'm a bit sensative to stack height in that regard so it may work great for others who like more stack height, @Kanye West

Disclaimer: it was an enduro bike so not actually DH

I actually like higher stack bikes. I've got short arms so it feels more natural.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

dude. 29er woulda rolled it. ALWAYS.

Ya, but you still have to go for the head.......

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

I was racing a mullet bike for @Tantrum Cycles at the Sea Otter DH and I though it was super interesting. Eats up the chunder but makes driving the front wheel through corners a bit harder. I think I'm a bit sensative to stack height in that regard so it may work great for others who like more stack height, @Kanye West

Disclaimer: it was an enduro bike so not actually DH

I forgot that you mentioned this in an email. Since that was a demo bike, and size L, I had a tall upper stack headset AND 15 mm of spacer under the stem since I wanted to make it compatible for the tallest demo riders. We could have easily dropped it 20 mm, although I hate doing that for potential skewering.

AND, you had 29er dropouts with 13 mm more CS on that bike.

So, until you prove me wrong, I'll say you prolly woulda won your class and even given a beat down to Karl if you had the 27.5 dropouts and lower stack. Turn on a dime with the same stability.

 

[rockofullr]

We match children's bike wheelsizes to their bodysize.

Thank god someone else agrees with me on this. There's no way wheels should be one size fits all. Body size, skill, and preferred riding style should dictate what wheel you ride.

I forgot that you mentioned this in an email. Since that was a demo bike, and size L, I had a tall upper stack headset AND 15 mm of spacer under the stem since I wanted to make it compatible for the tallest demo riders. We could have easily dropped it 20 mm, although I hate doing that for potential skewering.

AND, you had 29er dropouts with 13 mm more CS on that bike.

So, until you prove me wrong, I'll say you prolly woulda won your class and even given a beat down to Karl if you had the 27.5 dropouts and lower stack. Turn on a dime with the same stability.

Those must be some fast dropouts!

I would have loved to try the shorter chainstay configuration. And as someone who has been skewered by a handlebar before I don't really wanna repeat that hospital trip so thanks for keeping it safe!!

 

[Sandwich]

Thank god someone else agrees with me on this. There's no way wheels should be one size fits all. Body size, skill, and preferred riding style should dictate what wheel you ride.

I agree with you, but I'm not really going to get into a bitchfest here. One reason is that I think wheelsize is a choice, so some small people (emily batty) are going to prefer rollover and speed over cornering prowess, whereas some giants are going to want micro wheels for their benefits. Everything has limits. Just like norco's size-specific geometry. It sounds like a great idea, but what if you're tall AND like short chainstays? You buy another bike...

 

[Cerberus75]

I agree with you, but I'm not really going to get into a bitchfest here. One reason is that I think wheelsize is a choice, so some small people (emily batty) are going to prefer rollover and speed over cornering prowess, whereas some giants are going to want micro wheels for their benefits. Everything has limits. Just like norco's size-specific geometry. It sounds like a great idea, but what if you're tall AND like short chainstays? You buy another bike...

Bikes need to be more modular. Some companies are already. X frame with Y triangle and Z wheel size. Ad rockers for travel and leverage ratio would be sweet to.

 

[toodles]

Bikes need to be more modular. Some companies are already. X frame with Y triangle and Z wheel size. Ad rockers for travel and leverage ratio would be sweet to.

Intense already did this, but it was kind of a luck-of-the-draw system they used.

 

[Cerberus75]

Intense already did this, but it was kind of a luck-of-the-draw system they used.

Gorilla Gravity is close as well.

 

[iRider]

Just like norco's size-specific geometry. It sounds like a great idea, but what if you're tall AND like short chainstays? You buy another bike...

I just can't see the problem with this. Bikes from different manufacturers should be different, or? So we as customers have a choice. Why does every bike have to look like a Session, every wheel has to be lizard-approved 29" and every hub has to be boosted?
I like this thinking outside of the box that e.g. Hope and Nicolai showed with their bikes. They are not what I personally would buy, but I applaud them for the effort. Keep the market diverse and don't force feed me another wheel size by stopping support for another.

 

[KenW449]

Not the best place to put this, but close nuff'. Why is no one in the comments concerned that he is touching the outer disc with his bare hands? @4:50 I know you can clean them but he's making extra work for himself.

 

[Olly]

Why is no one in the comments concerned that he is touching the outer disc with his bare hands?

Perhaps it’s because if he’s got clean hands it’ll be fine anyway? Or maybe everyone is more interested in how the bike rides with the different wheels? Maybe they just don’t give a shit?