[SVEN]

OK, I need some serious input here. I'm a Christian. No, not just some guy that grew up going to church (wasn't) or some guy that just says he is. I have a relationship with God and believe he sent his Son to die for me. But this isn't the point.
The point is I also like to smoke pot. not habitually, I don't buy it (unless at Whistler!) But when it comes my way I almost never turn it down. Given that, what is peoples take on this in a spiritual sense. I am particularly looking for other Christian viewpoints here. I know most of the issues, but I just want to hear other people say something. Sure its illegal, but should it be? Sure it may ruin my testimony, but does it?
What goes through the mind of non-Christians when I say i am Christian and smoke pot?

 

[Tenaciousle0]

Well the Bible never says you shouldn't smoke pot, but it does say to obey the law. Well anyway, I don't think you'll go to hell for doing it.

 

[Damn True]

Bob Marley did, I don't.

The legality isn't really the issue. If it were legal I still wouldn't somke it. I smoked it twice in my sophmore year of HS. (holy moley that was 16 years ago!)
Didn't like it. Haven't had it since.

 

[Heidi]

my two cents: You are disobeying a law. That doesn't seem Christian-like to me. Would you committ adultry and then rationalize that it SHOULDN'T be "illegal"?

 

[zibbler]

Well, Jesus did say to obey the rulers (the law), so in that sense, yes, it's wrong because you're breaking the law. Other than that I don't think it's a big deal. I don't smoke the stuff, nor do I want to even if it is made legal. Just my 0.02

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by SVEN
OK, I need some serious input here. I'm a Christian. No, not just some guy that grew up going to church (wasn't) or some guy that just says he is. I have a relationship with God and believe he sent his Son to die for me. But this isn't the point.
The point is I also like to smoke pot. not habitually, I don't buy it (unless at Whistler!) But when it comes my way I almost never turn it down. Given that, what is peoples take on this in a spiritual sense. I am particularly looking for other Christian viewpoints here. I know most of the issues, but I just want to hear other people say something. Sure its illegal, but should it be? Sure it may ruin my testimony, but does it?
What goes through the mind of non-Christians when I say i am Christian and smoke pot?

No worse than drinkin... so as long as you do it in moderation, and it doesn't run your life, then it should be OK.

 

[SVEN]

OK, about the legality of it, what if soem ruler makes it a law to wear a microchip in my forehead or wrist for identity issues. I realize this sounds weird, (wow, really weird ) but should a Christian obey that law as well. And what if it were made a law for lame reasons, like to financially better a company. Just throwing out ideas here, not justifying.

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by SVEN
OK, about the legality of it, what if soem ruler makes it a law to wear a microchip in my forehead or wrist for identity issues. I realize this sounds weird, (wow, really weird ) but should a Christian obey that law as well. And what if it were made a law for lame reasons, like to financially better a company. Just throwing out ideas here, not justifying.

But it does sound like you're trying to justify. You're splitting hairs here. If you believe that the bible is 100% true in it's entirety, then you can't pick and choose the parts you like and the parts you don't like. It's an all or nothing proposition my friend.

 

[Big hit]

All I can say is that God created the universe. ..right down to the weed that we smoke every day. If he thought it was bad that He should never have created it in the first place..works for me!..

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by Big hit
All I can say is that God created the universe. ..right down to the weed that we smoke every day. If he thought it was bad that He should never have created it in the first place..works for me!..

Well, He created arsonic, cyanide, plutonium etc... just because he made something doesn't mean it's good for you. I'm not saying weed is good or bad, just that us humans can find anything on this earth to use in wrong ways. Weed actually does have medicinal uses, and I'm sure that's what he intended it for when he made it.

 

[SVEN]

Originally posted by zibbler


Well, He created arsonic, cyanide, plutonium etc... just because he made something doesn't mean it's good for you. I'm not saying weed is good or bad, just that us humans can find anything on this earth to use in wrong ways. Weed actually does have medicinal uses, and I'm sure that's what he intended it for when he made it.

You don't think it could have been for us to get ultra-zooted? What other scripture do we get that God wants us to follow the law other than the whole Tax issue and Ceasar? What if I moved to a marijuana friendly culture, what would change?

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by SVEN



You don't think it could have been for us to get ultra-zooted? What other scripture do we get that God wants us to follow the law other than the whole Tax issue and Ceasar? What if I moved to a marijuana friendly culture, what would change?

I can't find the exact verse, but when I do I'll post it. Loosley put he say's to honor the king. The king is the one that set the laws, and it seems to me this is what Jesus was refering to. If he didn't want you to obey the law, then I guess murder, rape, incest, adultery, theft etc. wouldn't be a big deal either. You could just kill the first person that pissed you off, because afterall, Jesus didn't say I have to obey the law. Now obviously this is a radical comparison, but the point is the same. You can't pick and choose what laws you will obey and what laws you will break.

EDIT: Okay, this isn't the verse I was thinking of, but it states it very plainly as you can see for yourself:

Romans 13
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


And yes, if you moved to a culture where it is legal, such as the Netherlands, then it would change.

 

[Serial Midget]

I am conflicted and would really like to be flippant...and eventually I will.

My take is that pot smoking is no worse than beer drinking. Locking people up for pot is stupid but a line had to be drawn somewhere. That said... I personally would NEVER smoke pot, not because it is illegal but because it would damage my lungs and take away the joy I get by being in decent cardio condition. Just because I would never personally touch the stuff does not mean I think it is wrong. I cannot count the guys I know who smoke the stuff - to a man they are all decent guys. Not harming anyone.

What does bother me is that some people think drinking alcohol is somehow different or better than pot. I don't think it is any different. One legal, ones not. Ones brewed, ones cultivated. I'll seldom turn down a good beer but that does not make me morally superior to a person how likes the ganja.

Hey Rasta man, hey - what you say? Give me some of that sensei...

As far as religous justification... the bible can justify anything - it depends on how you read it. While I am no bible thumper I certainly have a Christian ethic towards my fellow man.

I cannot judge or admonish anyone but myself*. You are your own man on your own road.

*and Damn True, whom I feel needs a little doggin'.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by zibbler
Romans 13
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

HOLY CRAP* - The American Revolution was a SIN!

*Pun intended.

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by Serial Midget

What does bother me is that some people think drinking alcohol is somehow different or better than pot. I don't think it is any different. One legal, ones not. Ones brewed, ones cultivated. I'll seldom turn down a good beer but that does not make me morally superior to a person how likes the ganja.

Well, I agree with you on that. Alcohol is way worse than weed as far as health issues are concerned and other issues as well. ANYTHING in excess is not a good thing, and alcohol is a very abused, legal substance. Do I drink alcohol? Yes. I like wine and occasionally beer. Do I get fall down drunk. I have on accasion, but I don't like it. Anything that is abused is not good. Believe it or not, drinking too much water can kill you too.

 

[El Jefe]

Given your life to Jesus? I don't think so. You break the law and justify it by saying it isn't that bad...Tenaciaousleo says you won't go to hell for it. So just because TL said it, it must be ok right? You're breaking the law and trying to find justification for your actions. It doesn't sound like you're much of a Christian to me.

Sorry, I don't mean to come off harsh toward you in particular, but it just really annoys me how so many people walk around today saying they've "given their lives to God," yet they lie, cheat, use illegal drugs, treat people poorly and carry grudges (the whole "forgive, but I won't forget" BS).

If you're really a Christian, stop smoking pot, lying cheating on your taxes, cussing out your kids and the guy in the car in front of you, repent, and don't do it again. The whole idea that Jesus died for your sins is nice, but it doesn't mean you can "sin" away and hope to make it to heaven. (not "you" in particular, but the collective "you" of humanity.)

BTW- no, I'm not a "Christian." Not that I don't believe in the possibility of a supreme creator, and I've actually studied religion quite extensively. But I've yet to see a Christian who is not a hypocrite....and then they try to justify their hypocrisy by simply admitting they're a "sinner."

If you want to be a good Christian and still smoke pot, go to Amsterdam, and then come home and lobby congress to repeal the laws against marijuana. Of course, there are many interptretations on the Bible's take on the use of mind altering substances in general, so maybe just going somewhere pot is legal wouldn't get you to heaven.

 

[fourgivn1]

BTW- no, I'm not a "Christian." Not that I don't believe in the possibility of a supreme creator, and I've actually studied religion quite extensively. But I've yet to see a Christian who is not a hypocrite....and then they try to justify their hypocrisy by simply admitting they're a "sinner."

If you want to be a good Christian and still smoke pot, go to Amsterdam, and then come home and lobby congress to repeal the laws against marijuana. Of course, there are many interptretations on the Bible's take on the use of mind altering substances in general, so maybe just going somewhere pot is legal wouldn't get you to heaven.

True...there ARE a lot of Christians that are hypocrites. But I would like to point out the fact that a) EVERYONE 'sins' all day long, in numerous ways.....so in that sense, it's sort of hard NOT to be a hypocrite in SOME way, and b) there ARE quite a lot of Christians out there who DO strive to live their lives correctly.

By the way, the Bible does say not to look to men, but to God (Jesus) for our examples. If we looked to Christians, we'd be hosed. *L8

 

[Serial Midget]

ACK! I'm going to need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...

SVEN is a nice guy who is totally devoted to his wife. He just likes a little wacky now and then... I have more faith in him as a human than any 'in your face Christian' I have ever met. He wasn't looking for damnation, judgement or justification, just friendly viewpoints.

It ain't pretty when the Midget gets sappy. Whats Damn True up to now??? No good, I hope.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by -BB-


No worse than drinkin... so as long as you do it in moderation, and it doesn't run your life, then it should be OK.

Did you get your lighter working again?

 

[SVEN]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
ACK! I'm going to need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...

SVEN is a nice guy who is totally devoted to his wife. He just likes a little wacky now and then... I have more faith in him as a human than any 'in your face Christian' I have ever met. He wasn't looking for damnation, judgement or justification, just friendly viewpoints.

It ain't pretty when the Midget gets sappy. Whats Damn True up to now??? No good, I hope.

True that! Thanks Midge, you brought a tear to my eye. Actually though, El Jefe's opinion, though rude and somewhat bitter, is kinda what I was looking for. i wanted to hear what a non-believer thought of my habits. I f it comes off as sacrificing my good testimony to the point that he would never listen to me talk about Jesus, then i want to know that. Like I said originally, I know the issues, and I know most feel that it is "wrong", but when I do it I don't feel the same guilt that I would feel from lusting at a woman or getting drunk, or even lashing out at my wife.

Thanks for everyones insight. BTW, is it illegal in Canada? Got a Whistler trip comin up!


Also, good point about the American Rveolution, that was brilliant. I still have a hard time dealing with that fact that I know God's will never changes, yet the laws of the land are always changing, and change from country to country. My feeble mind is simply not wrapping itself around that idea.

One more point, was it legal for Jesus to go postal in the Temple when those nutty jews turned it into a marketplace? I know it was for good reason, and He was God Incarnate, but was it legal?

 

[zibbler]

Originally posted by El Jefe

But I've yet to see a Christian who is not a hypocrite....and then

I have yet to see ANY HUMAN on the face of the earth that has not at some point in their life not been a hypocrite. Why is it automatically assumed that just because a person becomes a christian that now all of the sudden they are supposed to be superior, flawless, robotic beings? I don't ever recall ANY christian EVER state that they were perfect and flawless. People are still people, prone to the same flaws, weaknesses and mistakes as anyone else on this earth, regardless of whether they are a christian or not.

It's about as stupid as saying that a chinese person who doesn't use chopsticks is a hypocrite, because afterall, shouldn't all chinese people eat with chopsticks?

I'M not singling you out El Jefe, so please don't take this personally. I'm just sick of hearing the same ole lame crap about how christians are such hypocrites. Why does everyone put christians on such a pedistal and expect them to be perfect. Humans are not perfect. PEROID. If we were perefect, then Jesus died in vain and christianity would not be needed.

Think about it for a minute. Jesus himself in response to the pharisees when asked why he was hanging out with tax collectors and sinners responded: "It is the sick that are in need of a physician, not the healthy". So yes, in that respect, christians are a bunch of sick people in need of physician.

Just because someone "got saved" doesn't mean that they are instantly changed into perfect, robotic beings. Some change quicker than others, and some may never fully change. That's just human nature. I am not making excuses for the morons who call themselves christians then abuse the title by wilfully and knowingly break the law or hurt people. There is no excuse for that. But it is not fair to say that because a few people call themselves christian and do bad things, then ALL christians must be bad.

I'm not trying to start a holy war here. Far from it. But I call a spade a spade, and I don't think it's fair to constantly bash someone that is a christian because you or someone else has put some unrealistic expectation on them. Again, I'm not singling you out El Jefe, just the concensus at large.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by SVEN
Thanks for everyones insight. BTW, is it illegal in Canada? Got a Whistler trip comin up!

Hehe... I'd consider giving it up for lent though...

 

[partsbara]

sorry mate, but that plant has a root that goes directly to hell.. if u smoke it then you pretty much have a direct link with the devil himself... i don t think that the man upstairs likes people who pull bongs

partsbara

 

[Skookum]

Holy Sven!!! Dude i can smell your tokin down here on 13th!!! Remember i'm downwind of you bro and i don't hit the tret no more! Ease up on the bong or i'll tell your pastor on you!
Geez your second hand is gettin my doggie high!!

 

[ummbikes]

With a plank firmly planted in my eye...



Ephesians 5:18

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.


1 Peter 4:3

For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debachery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing, and destestable idolatry.


So it doesn't say no weed, but the message is the same.

 

[Roasted]

Nothing. I believe choice is the number one thing that we should be allowed. The consequences are those of your choice. As for how it relates to religion. I guess it is mentioned.

Are you asking this because you feel guilty? I was once a chronic and 'weeded' myself down to a non-smoker. I personally found it affected my head too much. I needed my brain to be in full operation for my job.

As for the legality of it. I won't touch this topic because I ... well like I said I will leave that issue alone.

 

[brock]

Originally posted by SVEN

What goes through the mind of non-Christians when I say i am Christian and smoke pot?

Don't take this the wrong way but........
I don't honestly know if I could care any less about what you do in the privacy of your own home (provided you are not hurting others).

My problem with both Pot Smokers and Christians comes when they try to impose their way of life on me or try to make me feel like less of a person for not participating.

 

[valve bouncer]

There is absolutely no doubt that marijuana is the devil's lawn. In Japan I can keep it bay by throwing special beans and chanting "Oni was soto, oni wa soto" (Devil out Devil out) but in Australia I have no such protection from the Good Lord Buddha so I'm forced to toke. I think I'm gonna go to a very bad place when I die.

 

[partsbara]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
There is absolutely no doubt that marijuana is the devil's lawn. In Japan I can keep it bay by throwing special beans and chanting "Oni was soto, oni wa soto" (Devil out Devil out) but in Australia I have no such protection from the Good Lord Buddha so I'm forced to toke. I think I'm gonna go to a very bad place when I die.

hhahahaha, u are a strange man vb... however, your translation stands corrected ... 'demons out, good fortune in'

later

partsbara

 

[Mr. ShockWave]

Originally posted by SVEN
OK, about the legality of it, what if soem ruler makes it a law to wear a microchip in my forehead or wrist for identity issues. I realize this sounds weird, (wow, really weird ) but should a Christian obey that law as well. And what if it were made a law for lame reasons, like to financially better a company. Just throwing out ideas here, not justifying.

I see Sven's point in here, as is stated in revelations, that when you receive such a chip with the appointed sign (the devil's sign = 666) you will definitly NOT go to heaven, but you will be damned to hell.

But still this has nothing to do with smoking pot, and/or justifing it.

Originally posted by SVEN
One more point, was it legal for Jesus to go postal in the Temple when those nutty jews turned it into a marketplace? I know it was for good reason, and He was God Incarnate, but was it legal?

Yes, but there was never stated that that marketplace may stand there in the temple, so He had every right to do so.

Next to that, Jeshua is not G-d's Incarnate, Luckily, but His only Son.

 

[SVEN]

Originally posted by brock




Don't take this the wrong way but........
I don't honestly know if I could care any less about what you do in the privacy of your own home (provided you are not hurting others).

My problem with both Pot Smokers and Christians comes when they try to impose their way of life on me or try to make me feel like less of a person for not participating.

You mean you're not a pot smoking Christian?! Everyone needs to be! I'm right your wrong! You are less of a person if you don't toke up on the devil's lawn and go to church with me . Sinner.


Just kidding, just giving an example of imposing beliefs. I would never impose pot on someone, I won't even be around when someone that hasen't smoked it wants to, I just avoids the situation. I wouldn't say I impose my beliefs either, in dact, I wish I spoke up a little bit more than I do. Most of the time I act like one of the guys, and that may be my downfall.

 

[SVEN]

Originally posted by maelstrom

Are you asking this because you feel guilty? I was once a chronic and 'weeded' myself down to a non-smoker. I personally found it affected my head too much. I needed my brain to be in full operation for my job.

i was asking because of guilt. I was looking for a reason outside of myself to not partake anymore. I like doing it because it makes me trip on life and all that I have: beautiful wife, nice bikes, health. heck, I'm 23 and am a successful real estate agent. That being said, it makes a lot more sense to not jeopardize any of that by breaking the law and killing brain cells. Plus my wife doesn't like me doing it, that is reason enough.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by SVEN



i was asking because of guilt. I was looking for a reason outside of myself to not partake anymore. I like doing it because it makes me trip on life and all that I have: beautiful wife, nice bikes, health. heck, I'm 23 and am a successful real estate agent. That being said, it makes a lot more sense to not jeopardize any of that by breaking the law and killing brain cells. Plus my wife doesn't like me doing it, that is reason enough.

Hmmm. Pot is not contributing to your good health... and just because the big man place the temptation withing reach doesn't make it right. You're your own judge in this lifetime so do what you know is right for you.

 

[laura]

this is what i think about the whole religion thing in general. you are a good person, right? you feel as though you are living your life well, right? do you try everyday to do what you feel you should be doing to get to heaven or make god happy or whatever you are trying to accomplish in your religious life?


if you do then smoke pot. but if you feel that smoking pot is interfering in anyway with where you want to be spritually then you should quit.

i dont see one damn thing wrong with it and i think that it is obvious that it was put on this planet to help some people out.(cancer patients and people with chronic pain and stomach/intestinal problems.)

i think that using it is like using alcohol is like using caffiene is like using nicotine is like using prozac. see where im going.

you dont need other people to tell you its wroong or right in "god's " eyes because they dont know. if you think it is interfering then it probably is and you probably need to quit but if you can sit down and say to yourself, im doing this for me and i dont think that it is interfering with how i need to live my life or my spiritual life, then you are good to go. just be honest with yourself.:evil:

 

[Skookum]

Bravo Laura!

 

[TN]

i think that using it is like using prozac. see where im going

Prozac REALLY messes with your brain chemistry.
You have natural receptors in your brain that are JUST for THC.




You can twist the bible to mean anything you want.

Take a look:

Book of Genesis 1:12
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


Sounds pro-pot to me....

I think I would question my religion if I was condemned for consumming a flower that brings good feelings into my life with no drawbacks.

AND I think the law that they talk about is natural law...stuff we can figure out on our own.....NOT the laws that have been created in the last 100 years. Pot wasnt illegal when the bible was written.


But what do I know, I am just a young heathen. :devil:


-TN

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by TN_Fred


Prozac REALLY messes with your brain chemistry.
You have natural receptors in your brain that are JUST for THC.




You can twist the bible to mean anything you want.

Take a look:

Book of Genesis 1:12
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


Sounds pro-pot to me....

I think I would question my religion if I was condemned for consumming a flower that brings good feelings into my life with no drawbacks.

AND I think the law that they talk about is natural law...stuff we can figure out on our own.....NOT the laws that have been created in the last 100 years. Pot wasnt illegal when the bible was written.


But what do I know, I am just a young heathen. :devil:


-TN

It isn't so much the legality issue as much as what smokin' the doobage open the soul up for.

Like alcohol, THC lower inhibitions and people will do things contrary to their normal nature...

We (Christians) are also cautioned about causing our brothers to stumble, so care needs to be taken in who consumption of mood altering substances is shared with.

The "moral" warning trigger that resides in me is pulled whenever I drink or , quite infrequently, partake of the herb. I caution myself not to over indulge and act a fool, and also make certain the other people around me are of a similar mind set. It hasn't been a problem, but there is risk for bad news, any time people alter their psyche!

Peace

 

[laura]

Like alcohol, THC lower inhibitions and people will do things contrary to their normal nature...

I always forget it effects everyone differently.
But I have never had that problem....in fact i think it makes me MORE inhibited. For instance....If (a BIG ol' if) I were to have a drink or 2 & go riding I would be more brave (stupid) than 100% sober, as in I would try a higher drops, jumps, etc... BUT if I were (& do occasionaly ) to chief one before I ride I usually get punked out by simple stuff....which is why when I am seriously riding i do neither.....until afterwards:evil:. (nothin' like some endorphins topped off by a little THC!)

Then again it depends on what kinda pot you got.....some is more of a physical sink into the couch & laugh at cartoons buzz, when some different pot will make you cerebral & uplifted.

Lets just get together go for a long ride & then match & discuss this.
Now that sounds like a plan.

-TN

 

[Tenaciousle0]

Dude, what are you guys talkin' about

 

[Slice]

It's not good for you, you could end up eating an entire box of mini donuts. along with a bag of dorito chips. But you have to be the judge of your own actions because your peers aren't what's important. You, your family and your health are.

Got any left?