Procore / Ghettocore progress thread
- Thread starter Udi
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There is not yet a Rekon available in 29". Maxxis describes the Rekon as a larger volume Ardent, so it's not terribly far off. The knobs are bigger on the Rekon, and I'd like to try a set of 29x2.6 Rekons on a Pedälhead with clipped intermediate knobs at some point.
The Aggressor and Minion SS are definitely solid choices, with a few folks around the shop running those. That still leaves the question of what to run up front, and part of the choice was continued experimentation. I'll probably wear out this set of tires within a couple months and then try something different.
Edit: Aggressor front/rear is probably pretty good for fast rolling with cornering knobs, I may try that at some point also.
@dump : I'm very afraid......of trying to do 11k of climbing in a day! I need all the help I can get!
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Dude if I were doing that ride, I'd drill speed holes in my frame, put 200g road bike tires on (filled with helium) and not give a flying fuck about 'cornering'.
At that point you're not out for a fun bike ride, it's something else entirely. Horses for courses.
At that point you're not out for a fun bike ride, it's something else entirely. Horses for courses.
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Oh I know... you need a marathon bike... i.e. a 'cross bike with paper thin 29er tires on it.
My more realistic setup is my Trail Pistol with the 2.4 Ardents and Cush Core. Those tires are light and fast rolling, I can still get them down a hill in one piece.
Back to the point of the thread: Cush Core allowed me to rally 2.4" Ardents at 22/24psi down Longhorn, rim is still round, and those are lighter tires than what I needed to run before. And, I'll be running the same tires the Mind Bender and not worry about smashing rims with 14k of descending, even though they're light xc-ish tires.
Back to the point of the thread: Cush Core allowed me to rally 2.4" Ardents at 22/24psi down Longhorn, rim is still round, and those are lighter tires than what I needed to run before. And, I'll be running the same tires the Mind Bender and not worry about smashing rims with 14k of descending, even though they're light xc-ish tires.
A buddy and I are talking about trying to ride everything at Exit 27 in a day. It'll be about 10k total.
We're gonna die.
That ride needs less pedaling and more Agate Creek.holy smokes
Oh, wait - that's a race. Never mind... carry on.
So The Lizard Folks at PB started laying down the path for lizard-industry produced tire inserts.
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-why-have-tires-sucked-for-so-long.html
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-why-have-tires-sucked-for-so-long.html
That is hands down the best article I've seen RC write. Someone needed to say it.
Top comment ftw too.
I don't want to stuff an overpriced 250g insert plus 120g of goopy mess into my wheels just to not flat, it's such a messy solution, nothing about it is elegant. It screams "blanket fix".
I think a better tyre/rim/inflation interface has been needed for a long time, and would be much more useful than boost / 29ers / all the other stupid changes. I'd rather throw money at a properly engineered solution than an overpriced piece of foam, if that was an actually available option.
RC made it sound so easy to fix the problem I don't know why he just doesn't do it himself. Clearly the industry has just been sitting on its ass.
You could just use a solid foam tire insert like they do on Moto-x bikes. Just spend a lot of time at the gym so you can go faster than 2 mph without resorting to a motor. There is also this.
meh
It took them 20 years of making carbon frames before they came up with ones that don't kill people, I don't know why tires would be any different.
I've talked with Dave Turner about this for over 10 years with pretty much the same gripes as RC. Tires are still the one gigantic elephant in the room where there's so much headspace for improvement. Nothing affects acceleration like wheel weight and we still don't have tires that are close to durable without weighing 3lbs each.
Typical in this industry though, everyone's fucking around with dumb shit like 3-4" tires on trail bikes instead of working on light durability in any meaningful way.
Since I started riding dh in 2000, there are really only two revolutionary things that have happened: soft compounds and heavier trail bike tires that don't disintegrate. Tread layouts are finally consolidating into what works but most tire companies are still just trying to do something that 'looks different'.
I think the problem is that the people who actually destroy tires and rims in mtb are becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall buying public.
meanwhile, this
It took them 20 years of making carbon frames before they came up with ones that don't kill people, I don't know why tires would be any different.
I've talked with Dave Turner about this for over 10 years with pretty much the same gripes as RC. Tires are still the one gigantic elephant in the room where there's so much headspace for improvement. Nothing affects acceleration like wheel weight and we still don't have tires that are close to durable without weighing 3lbs each.
Typical in this industry though, everyone's fucking around with dumb shit like 3-4" tires on trail bikes instead of working on light durability in any meaningful way.
Since I started riding dh in 2000, there are really only two revolutionary things that have happened: soft compounds and heavier trail bike tires that don't disintegrate. Tread layouts are finally consolidating into what works but most tire companies are still just trying to do something that 'looks different'.
I think the problem is that the people who actually destroy tires and rims in mtb are becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall buying public.
meanwhile, this
I think a big problem is just that rim and rubber manufacturers are not the same.
It'd really take a combined effort to make it happen (eg. DT and Schwalbe joining forces), if that happened we might see some innovation in the area.
Because that hasn't happened, people either try to fix the problem with only what they have control over (eg. procore) or by third parties creating band-aids to work with the existing two standards. Neither is ideal obviously.
Someone literally needs to reinvent the wheel here, I don't think he's saying it'd be easy, just that it should be attempted.
Being a long time PB reader (I was lucky enough to find the
until not many years ago) I can only think of this piece of RC's thought as a mere intent to capitalize and gain rep on the upcoming wave of tire inserts mass-produced by the big rubber brands. Schwalbe planted the beachhead, and Maxxis will surely follow suit pretty soon. I would be surprised if Mavic wasn't working on stuff like this, since they started offering their wheel/tire combos a while ago.
Schwalbe worked with Syntace to develop Procore, Mavic and e13 have both rims and tires in their lineup so that there is potential for the development of a better interface. That would be one of the rare cases where putting money on engineering would yield more rewards than putting it on PR!
honestly i'm surprised Specialized hasn't done this yet. they've got the rims, tires and cash and aren't afraid to make things that only work with their other things.
An important distinction is that Mavic and E13 both have their own tire models, but not they're own factories with proper R&D support. Last I knew, Mavics were made by Hutchison who are fairly conservative (just like Mavic themselves). E13's are made at CST who have been all about the bottom dollar for the last half a decade. All they want to do is make tires for you using the methods they already have. Trying to get them to try new tech or construction techniques is like pulling teeth.
A general problem with the tire industry is that most of the actual manufactures are quite content with the status quo. Nearly every bicycle tire factory out there is just a small piece of a larger automotive tire conglomerate. Trying to convince any of them to invest in r&d specifically for the small niche of performance MTB tires is an uphill battle. Conversely, all the small "cool" brands you can think of are mostly likely sourcing from those same mega vendors. Even if they have new and exciting ideas, they still have to fight the vendors to get them to try new things. The few vendors I worked with that were willing to try new things were unfortunately the same vendors that were producing our poorest quality products to begin with. I appreciated their enthusiasm, but it was rarely worth experimenting with them since we knew the ultimate quality wouldn't be good enough to be viable beyond a conceptual level.
Of course I'd love for any of them to prove me wrong and show that the industry is coming around.
Specialized should be in a better place than ever to experiment with this stuff and I assume that the racers are still asking for these improvements.
No one remember the old Specialized Evil Twin HC/SC DH tyres from the 90s that had a beadlock? it helped to both prevent pinches and keep the tyre locked to the rim after a flat.
Yes, these two are fairly small players in the mtb tire world and mtb tire manufacturing is a very small player compare to car tires like you mentioned.
I wonder what brand of mtb tire has its own factory and R&D. Michelin, Continental do. Specialized got a new factory lately. Maxxis should have. What about Schwalbe, Kenda, wtb and Onza?
Isn't Maxxis just a brand owned by CST?
Schwalbe co-owns their factory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwalbe_(tire_manufacturer)
Isn't Onza produced by CST, same as Maxxis?
Apparently Maxxis has its own factory in Taiwan where Onza and e13 are also made maybe with some other.... (source aronburgundy here: https://m.pinkbike.com/news/onza-aaron-gwin-develop-signature-tire-first-look-2016.html)
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/THE-Eliminator-rim.html
The fender man was on to something all those years ago!
The fender man was on to something all those years ago!
Update on Huck Norris: Been running it for 4-6 weeks, riding twice a week. My setup is LB carbon i30 rims with Maxxis DHR2 EXO TR tires tubeless with Stan's original. Typically ran 27lbs in the rear, and any less than that would pinch flat at the bead. Sidewall gashes from rocks aren't much of an issue for me here.
Anyway, after a good review from a friend who rides faster and harder than me, I tried his extra HN on the rear. He dropped to 24lbs after adding HN and has been fine so far. That sounded too low so I dropped to 25 and was fine until Sunday. Pinch flatted the tire, pretty big cut, came off the bead and couldn't be fixed.
So, I'll be bumping the rear pressure back up. Rim is fine though, no visible damage. HN strip had about six cuts all the way through the foam, so it worked a few times.
Anyway, after a good review from a friend who rides faster and harder than me, I tried his extra HN on the rear. He dropped to 24lbs after adding HN and has been fine so far. That sounded too low so I dropped to 25 and was fine until Sunday. Pinch flatted the tire, pretty big cut, came off the bead and couldn't be fixed.
So, I'll be bumping the rear pressure back up. Rim is fine though, no visible damage. HN strip had about six cuts all the way through the foam, so it worked a few times.
I just spent two and a half weeks in Whistler with no flats on the Cush Core. Friends riding tubes are flatting every day and some of them twice a day. One guy is flatting even with 2.2 bar in his tires. The 2 of us on Cush Core have had zero flats.
What sort of casing tires were you using? Semi-reinforced (à la DD or SupaGravity), or full-on DH tires?
I've basically become the Colorado spokesperson for CushCore. Tire pressures are now at 4 psi lower than original, rims are still round and dent free.
This is the solution I had been wanting for awhile. I choose tire pressure now based on traction and feel, not the lowest that will hopefully not destroy a rim.
This is the solution I had been wanting for awhile. I choose tire pressure now based on traction and feel, not the lowest that will hopefully not destroy a rim.
I was running a DD Minion in the rear and now I'm on a SG casing Magic Mary in the rear.
I completely agree and it's so nice to be able to do that now!
Cush core are the ones that are like 230g a pop right?
Please check my math here but that's let's see.......carry the q........ about 459.999g
Double of which would be.......about what you're little trail bike tires weigh n'est pas?
Plus unicorn picture. So nyea
No flats after 2 and a half weeks in Whistler with Super Gravity casing tires on a DH BIKE! That's a first for me.
PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR UNICORN IS, WOO!
Seriously though, you need to try them.
PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR UNICORN IS, WOO!
Seriously though, you need to try them.
Would be nice to know which setups you used in Whistler before to put this in perspective.
And I hope the answer is not " this was my first time in Whistler....".
I had a 560g - i30mm Carbon rim (no name) on the back with a DD Minion Maxgrip and then a SG Vertstar Magic Mary. It was my 7th time in Whistler. The park was more blown out than I've ever seen it before. Rocks sticking out everywhere and jacuzzi size holes on Aline. It was super rough this year.Would be nice to know which setups you used in Whistler before to put this in perspective.
And I hope the answer is not " this was my first time in Whistler....".
I'm half way through my 4th rear tire since I put in the Cush Core and still no flats.
Friends were flatting 2 times a day with heavy tubes, DH casing Magic Mary tires on 26" rims. They had pumps and tubes taped to their bikes.
