Protein Drinks

I Are Baboon · Nov 29, 2001

Well, are you talking about the pre-made ones you drink right out of the container, or the powders you mix yourself?

MtnBikerChk · Nov 29, 2001

I think bulking requires lots of carb calories. But I'm not sure cuz that's not MY Goal.

Protein is used for muscle recovery. We have protein shakes ASAP after a workout to help repair torn muscle fibers.

MtnBikerChk · Nov 29, 2001

This it?

http://www.pacific-nutrition.com/meal-mammoth2500.htm

MtnBikerChk · Nov 29, 2001

I think that stuff has WAY too many calories.

BUT - First you have to determine your goals. Then figure out your diet - Protein/Carbs/Fat ratios - and then we can pick out a supplement.

(imo)
btw - company home page http://www.interactivenutrition.com/

I Are Baboon · Nov 29, 2001

Originally posted by gecko
I knew you'd be first to reply

It comes in a 2.5kg jug of powder, to be mixed with water.

Protein consumption is essential to adding muscle (but you probably know that already). I drink a shake after my workouts. It helps your muscles recover, and helps them grow. I honestly can not see gaining too much muscle without taking a protein supplement, unless you manage to eat like a horse (but I've seen your pictures you don't look like someone who eats like a horse).

How much protein, carbs, calories, etc in one serving of your powder?

BTW, taking it straight up with water might taste NASTY.

MtnBikerChk · Nov 29, 2001

well - I don't think you want a weight gainer - you should come to that OTHER website I push - there are a lot of people who can help you better than me.

for training - ask gopro or prince
for diet - ask w8lifter

**shrug**

MtnBikerChk · Nov 29, 2001

That website shows the nutritional info much differently??!!

MtnBikerChk · Nov 29, 2001

Originally posted by gecko

Yeah sorry, those are half of the "recommended" dosage. Four scoops won't even fit in a glass without water.

PHEW! lol

I really think you need to evaluate your total daily intake first.

kuma · Nov 29, 2001

a WPI (Whey Protein Isolate) like Cytopro. I used to use Designer Protein but the Cytopro works better, costs less, you don't need to take as much, and goes down much easier. And unlike Desginer Protein which was straight protein, Cytopro has all these "goodies" mixed that that help.

The only other things that have made sigfinifant differences in my body shape and weight (aside from beer that is) are creatine, which will make you bigger and stronger faster quickly be but warned that most of it is water weight) and my latest discovery, GH. Go to bodybuilding.com and look from Promino. It is 100% legal and safe and if you are as dedicated to staying fit as you say you are, this WIL give you the MOST results in the SHORTEST amount of time.

Good luck...life's not easy being an ectomorph....

R.T. · Nov 30, 2001

As far as protein powders go, Kuma is right about the Cytopro. At least as far as taste, solubility, and extra aminos don't hurt(l-glutamine is a key for muscle growth). Honestly, choose which ever powder tastes best and mixes well for your aplication as well as priced with in reason(Designer, Metrx, whatever). There are some that might not taste as good but can be bought in bulk costling much less than the others( ProLab comes to mind).Because as long as the grade of whey protein is a quality one( go for the ones with whey isolates), they will all work the same in your body. Also not everyone can utilize the same amount of protein at one time. As a good average, you should probably take around 25-30g at a time. The bigger you are and more muscle you have, the more protein you can actually use and not just waste. Some of the protein co's tell you to take big servings with 50g or so of protein in them, they're just trying to get you to use more product. The trick is(when bulking) to have many 25-30g servings throughout the day. You can only take in so much at one time but once you digest it your muscles can take more. So after around 3+hrs or so you could have another serving.

Enough about the "magic" powder, on to the real issue. If you are an ectomorph than you've got some hard work ahead of you. First off there is no way to get big and ripped at the same time(well there is but that does way more damage than it's worth). You simply can not just put on 20lbs of lean muscle, you can bulk up and put on mass but it will be muscle along with fat. Which is fine because you have to learn to do things in cycles to achieve what your after. You're going to have to design your diet and lifing around a bulking program for a certain duration, then follow it with a cutting phase to lose the excess fat and try to retain as much of the muscle you gainned in the bulking phase. You will not be able to keep all the muscle gained bulking but you can keep a significant amount of it while lossing as much fat as you can cutting.

Also to be real, there is no way someone could put on 20lbs of pure lean muscle on in a year(naturally). People who have never really worked out will see much larger and quicker gains than someone who is allready experienced in exercising and lifting. Since you've been lifting for awhile the easy gains won't come to you, as well as being a ecto with a fast metabolisim counts against huge gains as well.

A couple quick tips, like MtnBikerChk stated, you want to take a good amount of protein as well as carbs very soon after lifting to help replenish your muscles since they will be at an optimum to absorb everything. Also first thing in the mourning as well, you body was fasting during sleep for 8hrs so it needs more protein and your muscles will be like sponges ready to take it in . Try to make these meals based around a protein shake because the protein is much more easily absorbed and quicker digested than a whole food protein source would be.

Sorry for rambling on so long, it's late and I was board. These kind of questions don't pop up on Mountain biking boards that often so I figured why not and try to give you some info you might be able to use. I know I was kind of general but to really get into this it would take lots of pages, it's more involved than most people think. If you have any specific questions, you could post 'em and I'll give it a shot trying to answer it for you.

RT

spincrazy · Nov 30, 2001

Thanks RT.

I know Gecko was the one asking the questions, but I learned a lot as well.

I am also an ectomorph and would like to be bigger , but have always been afraid of bloating up by bulking.

Regarding cycles, how long should one bulk before cutting. If I was only bloated for a short period of time I could handle it easier.

Is there a basic cycle that anyone can use based on their height and weight? I'm six feet tall and 159 lbs. I'm in a good period to bulk as I've broken my collar bone recently.

Protien powders haven't done much for me in the past, but just eating an enormous amount of food does even less. I just, er, eliminate more often.

kuma · Nov 30, 2001

...you're an ectomorph and wanna become big? Welcome to the club.

Contrary to what you've said, the only way I've been able to put on mass is by lifting heavy (6-8 rpe sets) and eating a LOT. Like RT mentioned, as an ectomoprh, there is no way in hell you are gonna get big and be ripped at the same time, even mesomophs don't do that. Take Lee Priest for example, he is 5'4" tall and balloons up to nearly 300 lbs in the off-season but then takes aay all the fat come contest time. So bascially, if you combine cardio-work with your weight-training, you are basically cancelling the effects.

Don't be afraid of getting "fat." This is what held me back the most. As an ectomorph, I always enjoyed good muscle-tone and even striation in my shoulders and what-not and as soon as that disappeared, I thought I was "getting fat" and increased my cardio which only did more bad than good as afr as strength gains and mass are concerned.

I'd really suggest looking into Promino AM/PM as well as creatine for the quickest gains in strength/mass but remember, protein is what is used to rebuild muscle, no matter how much you think it didn't work before. Like RT also mentioned, the best time to take protein is right after you wake, also right before you go to bed where your body uses isdown time while sleeping to recover. I think protein is more vital while you are sleeping than first thing in the monring but this is just my experience....remember the moral of body-building...EPID.

FrazzledBanana · Nov 30, 2001

KUMA is right about Creatine. It is one product that will help you gain size and strength in the gym. as far as ripped abs go, you need to do crunches/situps, and keep or drop body fat for the washboard to appear.

MtnBikerChk · Nov 30, 2001

Good job RT. Sometimes I'm a bit hesitant on repeating what I know to newbies because 1. I don't want to screw it up and 2. Everyone is different and I haven't quite learned to deal with that yet - like different advice for different people with different goals.

and just as a side note - everyone has their own favorite protein mix - so if you find one you like (it has what you need in it and it tastes good) stick with it. There's nothing worse than getting a big $$$ tub of something and hating it!

R.T. · Nov 30, 2001

I'll try to keep it short and to the point. Not my usual long winded responses.

SpinCrazy- Since your recently coming off a pretty severe injury I wouldn't go for a bulking cycle right now if I were you. Not due to consuming more calories but rather the heavier and more stressfull lifting that would be needed. You should have or currenty should be rehabing your upper body strength to at least get back to the level you were before the accident. Most likely you have some muscle atrophy from lack of use of upper body functions like shoulders, back. I'd just try to get back to your base strenth level first through regular exercise before you try to bulk. As far as cycle length, it's duration is really determined by how much mass you want to gain and how much mass your genetics will allow you to gain within a certain time frame. You weight and height are not that important.

Kuma, yea Lee is an absolute butter ball. If you would see him in person at least 3 mths out from a contest, you'd say who's the little fat bloated guy. Dropping 60-80lbs like he does is a horror show. Those guys are so unhealty is scary, between Preist and Coleman I doubt they will have one functioning liver between them soon.

Like you suggested, one of the biggest stumbling blocks of peolple making larger gains than the do is the fear of "fat". Something Lee definitely does not have. Bodybuilding and any type of true muscle mass gains takes a much stronger mental state than some expect and are really willing to give.

Gecko, no reason to be disappointed at all. You would not believe the difference 5lbs of lean mass would make to you if you are indeed fairly slim and small. Ecto's have a hard time gainning mass quickly but you also don't have to worry about becoming a blimp either. Plus being stronger is more benefical than being much bigger if your looking to be competitive, because you have to take extra mass up the climbs with you as well as be able to loft off the jumps with it.

MtbikerChk, I usually wouldn't bother giving health and fitness type advice but as long as it's in general terms it can be applied to a wide range of people. You are correct though, there is no way you can give someone very accurate and specific programs without knowing their physical condition and health background. Since it is a biking board, I figure most here are looking to enhance performance and not so much for cosmetic reasons. Those are the cases that peolple go over board with a "will try anything" attitude regardless of health risks.

Thanks guys

-RT

nite rider · Feb 23, 2002

Protein is essential for muscle repair but it will build the muscle and that's what you want. you are seeing a stunt in your growth because you are either working out too much or working the same muscle the same way every time. You need to switch it up (shock the muscle) every 2 weeks or so your muscle is always building itself. you don't want your muscle to get accustomed to your workout.

I have a whole section on protein on my site at www.mtbmind.com/fitness.htm including a formula on how much protein you should be injesting. If you want a really good protein, def try Ultimate Prostar Whey by Ultimate Nutrition (super great taste with all the amino's) TSN is offering all of their supplements at wholesale and if you mention my site, you'll get an additional 5% off. I have instructions on my site that will help you out. check it out.

:cool:

I Are Baboon · Feb 24, 2002

Originally posted by gecko
Well....I weighed 139lbs when I posted this thread, yesterday I weighed in at 152lbs

Fat ass.

Seriously though, great job, Gecko. Adding 13 pounds of muscle is pretty sweet!!! So you don't eat ANY meat? Does that include chicken and fish? Tana fish and chicken make up a HUGE part of my diet.

Old_Dude · Mar 17, 2002

If you're not going to be in competition and you just want to build up fast & look great (who doesn't), it's not required to buy "protein in a jug". There are many sources of protein which taste great, are inexpensive and naturally occur in food. This is one of my favorite shakes:

1 cup of no fat cottage cheese
1 cup of no fat yogurt
1/3 cup of orange juice
1/3 cup of skim milk

Give this mix 30 seconds at high speed on the blender. I guess I'm crazy, but to me, it tastes great. You can add blueberries, strawberries, bannana - whatever to suit your taste. I think I'm getting around 60 grams of protein in this mix and it's easy, quick, and great when you're strength building.

There's simply no reason why 99% of people who do strength training to buy protein mix & all that other crap - it's just a scam for the ignorant to spend their money. Eat the right foods, in the right amounts and you'll get results.

During the days after an extensive workout your body will constantly be in need of protein, not just immediately after a workout. If you do strength exercises on a regular basis, you're going to need consistent protein nourishment - in order to gain the results you're looking for - this isn't rocket science, or anything new.

One of the most important lessons I ever learned about strength training is this: What you eat is 80% of your success rate. This might be exaggerated, however it's partly true. Genetics, sleep, and several other factors determine your transformation, including, of course, your strength exercises.

I'm obviously very anti gym membership, and anti food supplements. The facts remain, you can build a spectacular body without all that crap - the recipe has been around long before EAS, or World's Gym, et cetera, and it works.

Some people really hate me for this, but I'm going to recommend "Body for Life" (again) - to me, this book could almost be re-named "Body Building 101". Again, where do I disagree with the author? #1 - forget the frequent sales pitch for pre-packaged supplements - just eat right as described in the book #2 - Forget the idea you have to work out in the morning, or that your results will be different - if you burn 600 calories in the morning or in the afternoon, it's the same, #3 - get at least three 30 minute aerobic workouts each week (Bill suggests 3 20 minute sessions with varied intensity - that doesn't work well with many people (but I like to run or ride my bike for at least an hour every other day, so, go figure my attitude).

I think Bill Phillips is smart enough to capitalize on a well proven plan - good for him - but you can reach your goals without buying a single EAS or similar product. Same for the gym thing - if you want to invest a modest amount of money, you can get a great workout for every muscle group in your body - joing a gym membership isn't for everyone, though the comraderie (sp?) & support from friends can be most benneficial to those who need it or depend on it in the beginning - the social aspects of gyms is great for some folks - it's not my bag. There are many similar plans out there, however, I'm not aware of any "beginner" plans that are more popular, which I've reviewed to be generally sound & recommendable (given the exceptions previously mentioned).

"Just do it" is only part of the real slogan - it should be "just do it right", otherwise, as Mr. Phillips says "you're just wasting your time".

nite rider · Mar 18, 2002

Originally posted by Old_Dude
If you're not going to be in competition and you just want to build up fast & look great (who doesn't), it's not required to buy "protein in a jug". There are many sources of protein which taste great, are inexpensive and naturally occur in food. This is one of my favorite shakes:

1 cup of no fat cottage cheese
1 cup of no fat yogurt
1/3 cup of orange juice
1/3 cup of skim milk

Give this mix 30 seconds at high speed on the blender. I guess I'm crazy, but to me, it tastes great. You can add blueberries, strawberries, bannana - whatever to suit your taste. I think I'm getting around 60 grams of protein in this mix and it's easy, quick, and great when you're strength building.

There's simply no reason why 99% of people who do strength training to buy protein mix & all that other crap - it's just a scam for the ignorant to spend their money. Eat the right foods, in the right amounts and you'll get results.

During the days after an extensive workout your body will constantly be in need of protein, not just immediately after a workout. If you do strength exercises on a regular basis, you're going to need consistent protein nourishment - in order to gain the results you're looking for - this isn't rocket science, or anything new.

One of the most important lessons I ever learned about strength training is this: What you eat is 80% of your success rate. This might be exaggerated, however it's partly true. Genetics, sleep, and several other factors determine your transformation, including, of course, your strength exercises.

I'm obviously very anti gym membership, and anti food supplements. The facts remain, you can build a spectacular body without all that crap - the recipe has been around long before EAS, or World's Gym, et cetera, and it works.

Some people really hate me for this, but I'm going to recommend "Body for Life" (again) - to me, this book could almost be re-named "Body Building 101". Again, where do I disagree with the author? #1 - forget the frequent sales pitch for pre-packaged supplements - just eat right as described in the book #2 - Forget the idea you have to work out in the morning, or that your results will be different - if you burn 600 calories in the morning or in the afternoon, it's the same, #3 - get at least three 30 minute aerobic workouts each week (Bill suggests 3 20 minute sessions with varied intensity - that doesn't work well with many people (but I like to run or ride my bike for at least an hour every other day, so, go figure my attitude).

I think Bill Phillips is smart enough to capitalize on a well proven plan - good for him - but you can reach your goals without buying a single EAS or similar product. Same for the gym thing - if you want to invest a modest amount of money, you can get a great workout for every muscle group in your body - joing a gym membership isn't for everyone, though the comraderie (sp?) & support from friends can be most benneficial to those who need it or depend on it in the beginning - the social aspects of gyms is great for some folks - it's not my bag. There are many similar plans out there, however, I'm not aware of any "beginner" plans that are more popular, which I've reviewed to be generally sound & recommendable (given the exceptions previously mentioned).

"Just do it" is only part of the real slogan - it should be "just do it right", otherwise, as Mr. Phillips says "you're just wasting your time".

Yeah you are right by saying that the recipe has been around for a while, however what you have to look for is the quality of protein. I find it hard to believe you are getting 60 grams of protein from milk and cheese. The best source of protein comes from egg whites, meat, and whey...whey being the fastest absorbed into your muscles.

Old_Dude · Mar 19, 2002

Sorry for the boo boo - it was 50 grams, not 60:

1 cup no fat yogurt --> 12g
1 cup no fat cottage cheese --> 30g
1 cup skim milk (instead of 1/2 cup) --> 8g
===========
Total 50 grams of protein

I've never heard cottage cheese was a bad source of protein. I guess I should also back down somewhat from the anti-pre-packaged nutrition supplements - I'm sure everyone would agree it's better to be consuming that stuff than triple stack w/cheese & jumbo fries.

And somehow they think putting diet coke in their big gulp makes it all okay.

UGGGGGGHHHHHH!

El Jefe · Mar 19, 2002

Originally posted by gecko
Maybe you guys can help me, I want to bulk up a bit (add 20lbs or so), and I've been told that protein drinks are a great way to do it, coupled with a workout routine of course.

Any one use these or have any info on them? Any idea what sort of results I can expect?

Oh yeah, the guy at the health store recommended a product called Mammoth, it's about half carbs and half protein.

Thanks

If you're eating a balanced diet, chances are you're getting plenty of Protein. Sounds like you may need to change your workout regimen. What types of movements, sets and reps are you doing? How much endurance / aerobic training are you involved in? It's tough to gain muscle size when you're doing a lot of mileage. Are you working any negative resistance into the rep? There are a number of things you can do to focus more on gaining muscle size (I assume you don't just want to add fat weight), but remember, some people gain size and weight much more easily than others. Personally, the only supplement I'd add if you're trying to gain muscle strength and size is Creatine. It'll help you recover faster from anaerobic exercises like weight lifting, thus allowing you to do more in a shorter period of time.

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