I did a run on the pipe trail this afternoon and almost crashed after trying to go off that last big jump! They didn't seem to have touched the main tree on R.T., but the landing is destroyed. I know that we are all entitled to our own opinions, but since Mike has been living up here, we've come to know the extent to which the locals, hikers and hunters, have controll around here. I'm not saying we don't have a right too, just that if we continue to build near the road and on such established trails, this will probably keep happening. The guys who tore up these stunts did only a half ass job, like they weren't prepared to do it when they came to it, so maybe they won't be back. The old jump lookes like it would only take a little bit to fix, they only tore out the top of the retaining wall . ---- Hillary
R.T. ramp and next drop torn down!
- Thread starter onetime
- Start date
There's more. Whale and I were up there today.
* Above RT, at the top of the piperun, someone had crossed two logs in the shape of a big X in the middle of a sweeping singletrack corner.
* The RT bridge was taken out and taken away.
* Evolution was spiked. Someone had taken tent stakes and fastened into the ground a board with 5 or 6 sheet metal screws sticking up. Last week we noticed tons of trees marked with new orange paint and even a fairly wide tree was felled to block the trail. All this on the top half. Lots of shotgun shells and beer bottles around.
Whoever is responsible - perhaps different folks on E and RT - is speculative but the hunters I came across on E were always friendly enough.
Keep in mind also this is a public msg board.
RT's destruction is easily understood, but spiking a trail?? Jeez, that's nuts.
* Above RT, at the top of the piperun, someone had crossed two logs in the shape of a big X in the middle of a sweeping singletrack corner.
* The RT bridge was taken out and taken away.
* Evolution was spiked. Someone had taken tent stakes and fastened into the ground a board with 5 or 6 sheet metal screws sticking up. Last week we noticed tons of trees marked with new orange paint and even a fairly wide tree was felled to block the trail. All this on the top half. Lots of shotgun shells and beer bottles around.
Whoever is responsible - perhaps different folks on E and RT - is speculative but the hunters I came across on E were always friendly enough.
Keep in mind also this is a public msg board.
RT's destruction is easily understood, but spiking a trail?? Jeez, that's nuts.
we were very lucky to spot this. please be careful out there riding and keep an eye out.Stiff said:
That sucks, but after spending a ton of my own time building jumps, I realized that eventually somebody always does this...keep building, sooner or later that someone will get tired of tearing down what gets built...
And about the screws on E, that's some low down dirty sh*t...I'd really like to know who did that...
And about the screws on E, that's some low down dirty sh*t...I'd really like to know who did that...
Those f***ers. I mean really, who is it hurting? (besides me)
I can understand tearing down stuff, its inevitable, but spiking a trail?!? Thats INTETIONALLY trying to seriously SERIOUSLY hurt someone. I mean think about it, Getting two flats on E at the same time? That could kill someone.
I can understand tearing down stuff, its inevitable, but spiking a trail?!? Thats INTETIONALLY trying to seriously SERIOUSLY hurt someone. I mean think about it, Getting two flats on E at the same time? That could kill someone.
Seriously, what the hell good is sabotoging people going to do?!
I spent my vacation riding in Maryland and the piperun and the RT. I had a blast riding there. It sickens me to hear that someone tried to sabatoge the trails! It seemed that there was enough room for everyone up on that mountain. Is there someone to report this mischief to(Considering that your trails are legal???) If so, take pictures and show them. People tearing stuff down and setting up obstructions that could cause injury whether serious or not needs to be stopped. It could lead to more serious things that could be set up to seriously hurt or even kill someone. You guys be careful out there!
Rob
Rob
Whoever did that probably didn't think the same or doesn't care. If it was hunters, take a weekend out there not riding and just blow air horns going up and down the road...well maybe not, that could start a war!rpk1988 said:
There's more: we were out with whale and stiff today and encountered a gentleman who was bringing some boyscouts out to pick up garbage- gave us a pretty impassioned diatribe against mountain bikers in general and people riding on trails "not designated for MTB." Given that the trail spike board was pinned to the trail with tent spikes, it's not hard to imagine some overzealous scouts (or scoutmasters) trying to "teach the bikers a lesson."
I'd also say that the obvious potential for serious injury because of the sabotage would indicate the poor judgement of youth, like, say, boyscouts?
Be careful and let's keep low profiles when we're out there to try and reduce the emotional impact on unstable a$$holes, eh?
I'd also say that the obvious potential for serious injury because of the sabotage would indicate the poor judgement of youth, like, say, boyscouts?
Be careful and let's keep low profiles when we're out there to try and reduce the emotional impact on unstable a$$holes, eh?
Well regardless of who it is, this kind of thimg has happened befor in the shed. I would like to think that this is an isolated instance, but this has happened on this mountain multiple times befor. The biggest I can rember is about 6 or 7 years ago when there was a DH trail built off of Gambrill pk road. Once word got out, it was torn down by the MORE. Not that they were leaving nails out, or even that this is MOREs doing, but unauthorised trails have been shut down in the past. The hunters in this area are really in control of the shed. They are in with the local lawmakers and otherwise "good old boys". I wonder if their is anyone we could talk to about having these trails who could get our back. I want to look into this , if no one opposes it. I have a few good leads. What do you guys think?
This really pisses me off. I already have this problem on the local single track trail here in St. Marys county. Everytime we build something a hiker or horse back rider always tears it down. Now I finnaly meet some people and find a good place to ride DH and the same thing is happening to it. I cant stand that. Why cant people just share the trails. Its not like we go barreling down the mountain looking for people to hit.
In many ways the more low key things stay up at the shed, the less likely it will be that someone tries to shut it down to us...
It would be wise to remember that the trails up there are really sweet "as is", and that the shed is the only thing left that's close to us for DH...
It would be wise to remember that the trails up there are really sweet "as is", and that the shed is the only thing left that's close to us for DH...
All things must come to an end, unless your a XC'r people hate you.
DßR said:
WHAAA?????!!!?!??
So are the jumps and stunts going to be rebuilt?
If anyone has heard of IMBA, maybe you can get some help from them and/or the local parks and recreation department. This could be a way around the local lawmakers. Another thing to look at is it could cause too much attention and potentially shut down any mtb'ing anywhere in that area especially with extragavent trails or builds in terms of safety issues...so be careful when you tred around finding means to back the cause. Hopefully this situation can be solved so when I come back I'll be able to ride there again. Good luck!
When I use to live up north there were MTB wars with hikers when our sport was young.
Be careful of booby traps. I will not expalin what to look for on here but just PM me cuz I have seen far worse than a spiked trails.
Kinda sux about RT and E
Be careful of booby traps. I will not expalin what to look for on here but just PM me cuz I have seen far worse than a spiked trails.
Kinda sux about RT and E
I think that the guy wasn't really anti-MTB. His priority was the trout brook at the bottom of E and showing his troops a good lesson about sustainability and removing trash. I also think he's a play-by-the-rules kind of guy so I very strongly don't believe he'd spike the trail. I don't even think he knew that E existed. He did see us putting rocks into the brook so we could cross without getting our dainty feet wet. He didn't like that.willpowa said:
The best way forward at this point is to work with other land users. Can't ignore them any more because they're not ignoring us.
Absolutely, Stiff, the scoutmaster's passions were sparked by seeing us in his troutstream;and as a presumably responsible adult, I doubt he would be guilty or even compliant to trail sabotage. However, he did provide us with a sound example of how strongly some people feel about ANY usage of a pristine area, and I suggest that that type of expression could very easily inspire youths to take measures a bit more drastically.
His comment about how mountain bikers approach trail stewardship did ring home, though. In his opinion, the typical MTBr's definition of maintenance consists primarily of clearing or cutting trail. I'd have to agree with him there. How significant an impression on the locals would it make to see a couple of groups of bikers making shuttle runs to the landfill with truckloads of garbage (like the scouts were doing)?
His comment about how mountain bikers approach trail stewardship did ring home, though. In his opinion, the typical MTBr's definition of maintenance consists primarily of clearing or cutting trail. I'd have to agree with him there. How significant an impression on the locals would it make to see a couple of groups of bikers making shuttle runs to the landfill with truckloads of garbage (like the scouts were doing)?
I also want to work during the winter to legitimize DH/FR specific tracks. I do env'l planning and wrote my master's thesis on trail/park mgt so I can contribute to the bureaucratic stuff. But I'm such a metrosexual DC blue stater that I'm sure I'd rub local decisionmakers the wrong way (unless I wear my old-man USA cap?), so we need people like, well, most of y'all, especially Onetime and her bf, who live and own property in the Shed, as well as other locals. That's some credibility that other MTBers will never have.
The IMBA FR guide is a very good starting point for discussion. Go to www.imba.org and download it.
The IMBA FR guide is a very good starting point for discussion. Go to www.imba.org and download it.
The Watershed is an interesting problem. MTBrs have tacit approval to ride there from the City of Frederick who owns it. The Md DNR maintains it for the City and most clubs have a good relationship with the people that are in charge. The problem is that the agreement to allow us to ride there includes a provision that we do not map it or expand it. The only legitimate trail in the 'shed is the Blue trail. Since it is a little like the wild west in the 'shed no one has really said anything. But I'm not surpirsed that if it was visible from the road it was destroyed. It sucks. Judging by the pictures, you guys put a ton of work in on that trail.mobius said:
SDG is right about 2-3 years ago at wakefeild and the other trails there, someone though that is would be a good idea to string piano wire across the trail. this wire is thin the almost imposible to see so more than one person was seriously hurt. i mean like cut right open hurt!!! if this stuff is going down be VERY careful! i don't want to see mike all mangled agian.
I'd also like to second robdropgoboom's comment about being careful about pursuing for more official access to the Shed. Unless somebody's got direct connections to the DNR that are friendly...?
As somebody who grew up on 40 acres among tens of thousands of acres of land much like the Shed, I can understand people getting upset at seeing increasing numbers of out-of-state plates on cars parked along the road, not to mention trail features being constructed, and folks with big helmets and bright colors on...
IMO, we as a community should try to be high profile in how we care for the shed, and lowpro when it comes to using it...I'll admit I was suprised when we saw the scout truck hauling trash; I didn't think people did that kind of thing too often. I'll bet some of the more sensitive locals experience a more acute suprise at seeing bikers in unexpected places. IMHO, we oughta give them the chance to be plesantly suprised at our unusual behavior.
As somebody who grew up on 40 acres among tens of thousands of acres of land much like the Shed, I can understand people getting upset at seeing increasing numbers of out-of-state plates on cars parked along the road, not to mention trail features being constructed, and folks with big helmets and bright colors on...
IMO, we as a community should try to be high profile in how we care for the shed, and lowpro when it comes to using it...I'll admit I was suprised when we saw the scout truck hauling trash; I didn't think people did that kind of thing too often. I'll bet some of the more sensitive locals experience a more acute suprise at seeing bikers in unexpected places. IMHO, we oughta give them the chance to be plesantly suprised at our unusual behavior.
Who are the contact points in the agencies and among the stakeholders and do you have a copy of the agreement?BikeGeek said:
Your first point of contact should be Contact:Stiff said:
Philip van Werkhoven
werk AT comcast DOT net
He is the MTB liason for the City of Frederick watershed and has worked with the City, DNR, and ALL the user groups for the past 15 years.
For details about the agreement see this thread, it's got a lot of info from Phil about the status of riding and land use up there.
Wow, thanks. Everyone should read RiderX's link. The things that strike me most are:riderx said:
1/ The City of Frederick is the land owner.
2/ The Shed MTB use agreement is VERBAL and vague. There is no trail or land mgt plan. The only written plans are ones for the city's water catchment ecosystem service (the priority) and wildlife mgt for hunting.
Seems to me that if we (DH/FRers) want legitimacy and legitimate advanced DH tracks, we have to demonstrate to this network of local handshakers and to MORE types that:
a. Water catchment functions will not be compromised through our recreational use, and
b. Hunting won't be interfered with (i.e., Sunday-only riding on new tracks during hunting season?).
Someone stop me now, I'm wonking out again.
Yeah, definitely. It sucks that people are setting boobytraps, but perhaps if we build less up there we'll be able to still use the trails without getting maimed by psychos.Paris said:
IMBA: 9 Ways to Involve Freeriders in Your Club
http://www.imba.com/resources/freeriding/freeriding_involved.html
http://www.imba.com/resources/freeriding/freeriding_involved.html
Exactly. The city might also take the liability outlook on bikers and ban us completely. I think the stunt building might be better left to privately owned property and leave the Shed to more "natural" obstacles. Either that or build the stunts further away from the mainstream. When I ride cross country, I don't see many people. It's not convenient to lug a 40+ lb bike up some of those hills, but it's better then not riding up there at all.riderx said:
Ill do what ever I can to help. Even if it means taking E and dancing till 6 am
DßR said:
The system is down, the system is down, the system is down...
I think we're onto something.
Seriously though...I will try to find some time this week to draft up something like a white paper with which we can collectively approach the powers that be. I'll circulate it offline to interested parties for input before forwarding to official channels. There are many good ideas here in this thread and cheers to Stiff and RiderX for posting the relevant links/info.
white paper? now, we got the right man on the job...DamienC said:
y = exp( -1.0 * (p*b*ac*m) / (s*t) )
Really, really friggin' sad. I didn't ride the 'shed this w/e, but I guess it's a good thing I didn't. Some drunk fvcker might try to throw Busch bottles or shoot a slug at me again. I go out of my way to not screw with hunters or hikers and this is what happens. Why would anyone spike E? Has some schmuck decided to nominate himself Drunken Druid of the 'shed so that he can get smashed, blast empties and dump his couches without ever having to see anyone back there he's "not kin to"? Ignorant Fredneck! Butt-munching Tree-hugger! You will be found and treated poorly when you are. 
I am really embarassed for this area right now. I guess the many bottles thrown at me and attempts to make me wreck while riding in Frederick were not isolated incidents.
So...just for the record, let me get this straight:
We can't ride on the sidewalk because it pisses off pedestrians
We can't ride in the street because it pisses off motorists
We can't ride in the city parks(e.g. Baker) because it pisses off cops
We can't ride in Gambrill Park because it pisses off the unleashed dog walkers
We can't ride on the grass because it pisses off homeowners
We can't ride in the State parks or trails(e.g. Cunningham Falls, Appalachian) because it pisses off Rangers
Now, we can't even ride safely in the Watershed because it pisses off some cowardly a$$hole
Excuse me, but where in the fvck are cyclists supposed to ride in Frederick w/o being attacked! Only back and forth on the goshdamned short Carroll Creek tarmac path!
I am really embarassed for this area right now. I guess the many bottles thrown at me and attempts to make me wreck while riding in Frederick were not isolated incidents.
So...just for the record, let me get this straight:
We can't ride on the sidewalk because it pisses off pedestrians
We can't ride in the street because it pisses off motorists
We can't ride in the city parks(e.g. Baker) because it pisses off cops
We can't ride in Gambrill Park because it pisses off the unleashed dog walkers
We can't ride on the grass because it pisses off homeowners
We can't ride in the State parks or trails(e.g. Cunningham Falls, Appalachian) because it pisses off Rangers
Now, we can't even ride safely in the Watershed because it pisses off some cowardly a$$hole
Excuse me, but where in the fvck are cyclists supposed to ride in Frederick w/o being attacked! Only back and forth on the goshdamned short Carroll Creek tarmac path!
So we're all agreed that the #1 priority is that there should be a thumping techno dance party with MTBers, the Frederick City Council and hunters. Hey, I've got an orange shirt. Seriously, I think that IMBA freeride manual is very well done. I added that IMBA link to try to prevent XC backlash postings against DH/FR in this thread - something I've noticed in the Mid-Atlantic region.
For those who are focused on built stunts, the main news, at least for me, is a built booby trap on a natural stuntless trail.
More generally, the issue isn't about 40+ lbs bikes. Some riders are content to ride Piperun all day on their DH sleds; that trail is very very easy on any kind of bike. I'd like legitimized, long, advanced, unneutered trails of all kinds - XC, FR, DH.
For those who are focused on built stunts, the main news, at least for me, is a built booby trap on a natural stuntless trail.
More generally, the issue isn't about 40+ lbs bikes. Some riders are content to ride Piperun all day on their DH sleds; that trail is very very easy on any kind of bike. I'd like legitimized, long, advanced, unneutered trails of all kinds - XC, FR, DH.